Red Sox trade Hunter Renfroe in trade involving Jackie Bradley Jr

[mvp 78]

The point is that the Red Sox would have never given JBJ a contract paying him $10+M at the time he became a FA if it had only been for 1 yr, and now they will pay him for 2 yrs coming off a 160 season, and trading away 96 RBI in the process. Even in his prime his D would not make up the difference, and now at 32 he may have lost a step. I didn’t like this trade when it happened, and I like it even less now. I was all for trading Renfroe, but not for JBJ.

 

We don't know they wouldn't have paid him 10M for one year.

 

RBI isn't a repeatable skill.

 

JBJ's defensive numbers in 2021 are good and don't indicate that he lost a step.

[moonslav59]

Well if that's been your point all along, why are you still head-scratching?

 

You can trust someone knows more than you do and still scratch your head.

 

You don’t have to agree with everything someone does

to trust them.

[mvp 78]

That’s been my point all along, and here’s where I trust him more than myself and others viewpoints on the likelihood either of the prospects do something positive for the big club someday.

 

I don't think Bloom made this trade because he projects them to be on the Opening Day roster in 2023.

[mvp 78]

You do realize that Renfroe was coming off a 160 season when Bloom acquired him? That guys like Renfroe and JBJ tend to fluctuate with the bat?

 

Bell, he was in decline!

 

2018 114 WRC+

2019 99 WRC+

2020 78 WRC+

[moonslav59]

I don't see a decline because I believe 2016 is overly inflated and not likely to repeat. What would his 2020 season looked like if it was a full 162 games? We have no idea.

 

Why ignore 2015?

 

He had more PAs in 2015 than the 2020 season uou want to turn into 162 games, right?

 

His WAR declined, too.

[Bellhorn04]

You can trust someone knows more than you do and still scratch your head.

 

You don’t have to agree with everything someone does

to trust them.

 

Yeah, but in this case Bloom's reasoning is obvious. Prospects + defensive upgrade + hope for offensive bounce-back. Your head-scratching should be over.

[moonslav59]

I don't think Bloom made this trade because he projects them to be on the Opening Day roster in 2023.

 

I think he believes one will.

[Old Red]

You do realize that Renfroe was coming off a 160 season when Bloom acquired him? That guys like Renfroe and JBJ tend to fluctuate with the bat?

 

Yes, and those are the type of guys that Bloom takes a shot at, and turned out to be a bargain at $3M. JBJ is no bargain at $10+M for two more years.

[mvp 78]

Renfroe's career high in RBI prior to 2021: 68.

 

If you prorate 2020, he averaged 70 RBI per year for the last 5 years.

 

On a per plate appearance basis, Dalbec was more likely to get an RBI than Renfroe. Most of the board is fine with shelving Dalbec once Casas comes up. Why fret about Renfroe?

[Bellhorn04]

Yes, and those are the type of guys that Bloom takes a shot at, and turned out to be a bargain at $3M. JBJ is no bargain at $10+M for two more years.

 

JBJ is no bargain, on that we agree.

[Old Red]

Yeah, but in this case Bloom's reasoning is obvious. Prospects + defensive upgrade + hope for offensive bounce-back. Your head-scratching should be over.

 

Hope all you want. Bloom gets a very low passing grade on this one.

[mvp 78]

Yeah, but in this case Bloom's reasoning is obvious. Prospects + defensive upgrade + hope for offensive bounce-back. Your head-scratching should be over.

 

This post should be T Gel for moon's current condition.

[mvp 78]

Hope all you want. Bloom gets a very low passing grade on this one.

 

It's hard to grade one trade when the offseason isn't over. We also have no idea what other teams were offering in relation to Renfroe.

[mvp 78]

JBJ is no bargain, on that we agree.

 

He's overpaid. He doesn't deserve 10M AAV.

[moonslav59]

Yeah, but in this case Bloom's reasoning is obvious. Prospects + defensive upgrade + hope for offensive bounce-back. Your head-scratching should be over.

 

I can see why he and others are not scratching their heads, but I still do not

Like this one move.

 

Another factor might be that we will spend over the tax line, so the money aspect is lessened. I’m going on the assumption that we are trying to stick to a strict budget under or near the tax line. If we end up signing Story or Suzuki, then the whole budget aspect of my position will change.

 

I’m not sure why

My head scratching over one deal seems to bother you so much.

[moonslav59]

Hope all you want. Bloom gets a very low passing grade on this one.

 

I’m surprised you gave him a D not an F-.

[Bellhorn04]

I can see why he and others are not scratching their heads, but I still do not

Like this one move.

 

Another factor might be that we will spend over the tax line, so the money aspect is lessened. I’m going on the assumption that we are trying to stick to a strict budget under or near the tax line. If we end up signing Story or Suzuki, then the whole budget aspect of my position will change.

 

I’m not sure why

My head scratching over one deal seems to bother you so much.

 

It doesn't bother me that much. I just don't get why this deal confounds you. We've already seen other examples of Bloom buying prospects, like the Ottavino deal.

[Kimmi]

I think Bloom is also betting on JBJ's glove over the short term.

 

I can see JBJ being a 4th OFer and a defensive replacement. I don't think Bloom intends for him to be our everyday CFer or RFer. I think he has something else in mind for the outfield.

[moonslav59]

He's overpaid. He doesn't deserve 10M AAV.

 

His AAV is $12M.

 

He has an $8M buyout for 2023 or another $12M to stay.

 

It’s basically a $12M x 2 deal or $17.5M for 1.

 

To me, that’s a boatload of money that could have upgraded a Wacha and of Hill or could be used to sign a very good IFer of RPer or two decent players.

 

No, it’s not a$300M deal but $17.5 to $24M is a lot of money on a tight budget team. Hello .

[Kimmi]

Playing devil's advocate.....what if we do the Ottavino deal with another club? Trade JBJ for prospects and pay most of his salary?

 

I'm not sure what Bloom's plan is regarding JBJ, but I do think that there are subsequent moves coming regarding our outfield. That may or may not involve trading JBJ.

[Old Red]

I’m surprised you gave him a D not an F-.

 

It’s the Holiday season. Another week, and I might have.

[moonslav59]

It doesn't bother me that much. I just don't get why this deal confounds you. We've already seen other examples of Bloom buying prospects, like the Ottavino deal.

 

I’m not trying to make you scratch your head like you seem to be trying to make me stop scratching mine if turn me into a Bloom basher.

 

I get why many of you are fine with this deal. Some don’t seem to care about the money aspect and some think bounce back or bounce down by Renfroe are more likely than I do.

 

I get it.

[Kimmi]

Bloom had to think the prospects out weighed the money anfJBJs defense outweighed Renfroe’s offense.

 

Or something close to that.

 

I’m still scratching my head.

 

This move was about the prospects and the long term. It's a downgrade for this year, but an overall upgrade. Similar to the Benintendi trade, which I didn't like at all for the 2021 season, but it ended up working out just fine. And as I previously posted, I am pretty sure that we are not done with the outfield situation.

[Old Red]

Renfroe's career high in RBI prior to 2021: 68.

 

If you prorate 2020, he averaged 70 RBI per year for the last 5 years.

 

On a per plate appearance basis, Dalbec was more likely to get an RBI than Renfroe. Most of the board is fine with shelving Dalbec once Casas comes up. Why fret about Renfroe?

 

It’s not about Renfroe, but the money being spent on JBJ when more money should have been spent on the rotation. If you can pay JBJ $10+M for the next two years you could have upgraded to someone better than Whacka for the rotation.

[moonslav59]

I'm not sure what Bloom's plan is regarding JBJ, but I do think that there are subsequent moves coming regarding our outfield. That may or may not involve trading JBJ.

 

So we trade our FT RFer who may be due for a decline to the point where he might be a zero WAR player making $7M for a part time OFer making $12M x 2 of $17.5m x 1 in hopes he bounced back.

 

To

Me, Bloom liked the prospects more than anyone I see on this site.

[Old Red]

I’m not trying to make you scratch your head like you seem to be trying to make me stop scratching mine if turn me into a Bloom basher.

 

I get why many of you are fine with this deal. Some don’t seem to care about the money aspect and some think bounce back or bounce down by Renfroe are more likely than I do.

 

I get it.

 

I get it too, and I’m with you on this Moon.

[moonslav59]

This move was about the prospects and the long term. It's a downgrade for this year, but an overall upgrade. Similar to the Benintendi trade, which I didn't like at all for the 2021 season, but it ended up working out just fine. And as I previously posted, I am pretty sure that we are not done with the outfield situation.

 

Having to make another deal to fix losing Renfroe adds even more cost to the overall impact of this trade.

[moonslav59]

It’s not about Renfroe, but the money being spent on JBJ when more money should have been spent on the rotation. If you can pay JBJ $10+M for the next two years you could have upgraded to someone better than Whacka for the rotation.

 

I agree. It’s actually $12M AAVx2 years or $12M AAV for 1 year but an actual $17.5M cost for one year counting the buyout.

 

I know overlooking the long term aspect of signing a better SPer is a big part of any comparative analysis, but adding $12M to the cost of Wacha and of Hill and Paxton gets us a very nice starter.

[Kimmi]

I’m not giddy with prospects like some of you are on here. I didn’t like Jeter Downs, and Wong, and I don’t like the prospects they got for Renfroe who none of them may contribute much of anything to the Sox. Give me actual players like Duggie any time who you know they can play.

 

I am giddy that Bloom is intent on strengthening the farm system, which in turn, strengthens the team's long term sustainability. Maybe the prospects taken individually don't amount to anything, but the strength of the farm system as a whole amounts to a whole lot.

[Old Red]

So we trade our FT RFer who may be due for a decline to the point where he might be a zero WAR player making $7M for a part time OFer making $12M x 2 of $17.5m x 1 in hopes he bounced back.

 

To

Me, Bloom liked the prospects more than anyone I see on this site.

 

Bloom likes prospects, because he has to. Do you think Bloom would act, or react the way he does if he had a bigger checkbook like Dombrowski did? Do you think he would be making a lot different kind of deals?