Red Sox trade Hunter Renfroe in trade involving Jackie Bradley Jr

[Kimmi]

What are the moves you'd make that would cause the JBJ trade to make more sense? Signing another OFer? Bringing in a better 2B?

 

I was thinking signing another OFer, but there are other ways this could play out. Whatever the moves, I am sure that there is a priority on improving defense.

[mvp 78]

I’m not giving it a D- or F. I’m just surprised Red did not give him an F.

 

I have said over and over it’s about the prospects.

 

That is the value, plus an upgrade in D, which I have been screaming for.

 

To me, the money aspect turns this into a head scratcher. I don’t think this was a good deal, but it might be one.

 

Maybe Bloom's budget isn't the one you have stuck on your dart board?

[mvp 78]

Perhaps, but keep in mind that we're not just talking about this upcoming season. Bloom always operates with the long term in mind. Maybe we have to add some more cost this year to replace the loss of value in Renfroe, but long term, we could very well end up saving.

 

The Sox are in the financial position where they could exceed the luxury tax limit this year, if needed, and be able to reset again within the next 3 years.

 

^^^

[moonslav59]

[/b]78;1447349]But why? Bloom clearly values JBJ's glove. He didn't make the move because he was bored.

 

Where did I say that?

 

I’ve repeated over and over why I think Bloom-made this deal.

 

Do I need to again?.

[Kimmi]

I don't see them trading JBJ. I do see them acquiring many more pieces to fill out the roster though. If not, it's because they have extended Raffy and Xander.

 

I don't think they'll trade JBJ either.

[mvp 78]

JBJs option would have to be decline for his salary not to count towards 2023.

 

That’s an expensive buy out of $8M. That doesn’t count on the 2023 tax budget, but that’s more than any tax we might pay!

 

Sounds like if they just dumped him if he struggled in 2022 that it would be just fine then. So what's all the worry for?

[moonslav59]

Maybe Bloom's budget isn't the one you have stuck on your dart board?

 

I’ve already said this might be the case and everything changes.

 

If we go over the tax line in2023, this deal looks better, to me, but still not a good one, unless the prospects do well.

[mvp 78]

Where did I say that?

 

I’ve repeated over and over why I think Bloom-made this deal.

 

Do I need to again?.

 

All you've said is "it's a head scratcher." At this point, you probably need to call up your PCP.

[Kimmi]

Should we expect career norms at his age?

 

Certainly much closer to career norms than the numbers he posted last year.

[moonslav59]

Sounds like if they just dumped him if he struggled in 2022 that it would be just fine then. So what's all the worry for?

 

After all this, you don’t know?

 

I guess I will repeat it again:

 

It’s about the money on a tight budget.

 

That’s like 10 times, dude!

[moonslav59]

All you've said is "it's a head scratcher." At this point, you probably need to call up your PCP.

 

Maybe you do.

 

You can’t at least understand the point I’ve had to repeat 10 times.

 

Agree to disagree but don’t act like you don’t know my position.

[Kimmi]

I’m not giving it a D- or F. I’m just surprised Red did not give him an F.

 

I have said over and over it’s about the prospects.

 

That is the value, plus an upgrade in D, which I have been screaming for.

 

To me, the money aspect turns this into a head scratcher. I don’t think this was a good deal, but it might be one.

 

The Sox have the financial flexibility to exceed the tax limit this year and the next without getting hit by the harsh tax penalties. That allows Bloom to take on JBJ's salary without too much concern.

[moonslav59]

The Sox have the financial flexibility to exceed the tax limit this year and the next without getting hit by the harsh tax penalties. That allows Bloom to take on JBJ's salary without too much concern.

 

That may be the case, and I’ve said this deal looks better if we start spending more and more, but looking at the bargain basement pitchers we just signed, I have my doubts.

[mvp 78]

After all this, you don’t know?

 

I guess I will repeat it again:

 

It’s about the money on a tight budget.

 

That’s like 10 times, dude!

 

Why are you more concerned about Bloom's budget than he is? If he's not concerned about it, maybe your budget estimate is wrong?

[mvp 78]

Maybe you do.

 

You can’t at least understand the point I’ve had to repeat 10 times.

 

Agree to disagree but don’t act like you don’t know my position.

 

"It's a head scratcher because they definitely won't go over the budgetary estimate that I came up with all on my own."

 

Wild.

[mvp 78]

The Sox have the financial flexibility to exceed the tax limit this year and the next without getting hit by the harsh tax penalties. That allows Bloom to take on JBJ's salary without too much concern.

 

^^^

[mvp 78]

That may be the case, and I’ve said this deal looks better if we start spending more and more, but looking at the bargain basement pitchers we just signed, I have my doubts.

 

The offseason isn't half over.

 

Maybe they use their prospects to trade for starting pitching?

 

Maybe they think replacing Richards and Perez is easy to do?

 

Maybe they think a full season of a healthy Sale will make up for losing ERod?

[moonslav59]

Why are you more concerned about Bloom's budget than he is? If he's not concerned about it, maybe your budget estimate is wrong?

 

I think he is more concerned about the budget than any of us. That’s why he signed Wacha, Hill and Paxton and not ERod, too or instead.

 

I’ve said over and over again, I’m going on the assumption we stay under or near the tax line. I’ve said I could be wrong, but until I see us go over significantly I’m going on that assumption.

 

It’s not some whacky assumption, and I’m fine if you and others disagree, but stop painting my position like it’s some wild and crazy one.

 

I dislike this trade, mostly for monetary reasons. If you think it’s a capital offense, then shoot me.

[moonslav59]

"It's a head scratcher because they definitely won't go over the budgetary estimate that I came up with all on my own."

 

Wild.

 

I never said definite. You are making strawman arguments, again.

[mvp 78]

I never said definite. You are making strawman arguments, again.

 

If you thought they could go over the lux tax cap, it wouldn't be a head scratcher.

 

Also, that wasn't a strawman.

[moonslav59]

The offseason isn't half over.

 

Maybe they use their prospects to trade for starting pitching?

 

Maybe they think replacing Richards and Perez is easy to do?

 

Maybe they think a full season of a healthy Sale will make up for losing ERod?

 

I’m very confident about 2022. My dislike of one deal is taking on monumental meanings to you.

[mvp 78]

I think he is more concerned about the budget than any of us. That’s why he signed Wacha, Hill and Paxton and not ERod, too or instead.

 

I’ve said over and over again, I’m going on the assumption we stay under or near the tax line. I’ve said I could be wrong, but until I see us go over significantly I’m going on that assumption.

 

It’s not some whacky assumption, and I’m fine if you and others disagree, but stop painting my position like it’s some wild and crazy one.

 

I dislike this trade, mostly for monetary reasons. If you think it’s a capital offense, then shoot me.

 

Capital offense? Now who's doing the strawman?

[mvp 78]

I’m very confident about 2022. My dislike of one deal is taking on monumental meanings to you.

 

It just shouldn't be a "head scratcher." We've all made the case for why the trade was done. You just don't want to listen.

[moonslav59]

If you thought they could go over the lux tax cap, it wouldn't be a head scratcher.

 

Also, that wasn't a strawman.

 

The fact that I said if we go over the tax line proves I don’t view it as definite.

 

Yes, certain strawman

[moonslav59]

It just shouldn't be a "head scratcher." We've all made the case for why the trade was done. You just don't want to listen.

 

No.

 

I know yours and others positions and respect them.

 

You can’t handle me disagreeing.

 

You equate understanding with agreeing.

 

I don’t like the trade. I can see how it might work out, if JBJ hits over .680 or so and or a prospect dies well, but I think the trade will be a bad one, despite hearing and understanding the opposing views.

 

Why is that so hard for you to grasp?

 

FYI, I liked several moves Bloom made last year that flopped. I know I can be wrong on this one, too, but I also know maybe you will be instead of me.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

What if... Bloom likes the prospects in the JBJ trade so much that he made the deal so he can make another one soon? For example, say he was on the verge of acquiring a young MLB pitcher from Miami, but the Marlins insist on Casas in return? What if Bloom added Binelas as the future lefty bat first baseman to platoon with Dalbec... for the sole purpose of landing a top of the rotation starter?

[Bellhorn04]

ERod?

 

The money spent on JBJ adds a year on our offer for him, right?

 

The AVV argument is even more solid, if you don’t look long term.

 

Wacha + JBJ = ERod.

 

?

 

But of course you have to look long term. ERod is a 77 mill investment. This trade has no impact on that kind of investment.

[moonslav59]

What if... Bloom likes the prospects in the JBJ trade so much that he made the deal so he can make another one soon? For example, say he was on the verge of acquiring a young MLB pitcher from Miami, but the Marlins insist on Casas in return? What if Bloom added Binelas as the future lefty bat first baseman to platoon with Dalbec... for the sole purpose of landing a top of the rotation starter?

 

This very well could be the plan.

 

I think these prospects were the key to the deal- one way or another.

 

Edited December 30, 2021 by moonslav59

[moonslav59]

But of course you have to look long term. ERod is a 77 mill investment. This trade has no impact on that kind of investment.

 

We apparently made a shorter term offer. The $24M paid to JBJ added to our initial offer makes it a bit closer but maybe not quite equal.

 

It’s not $77M vs $24M

 

Also, if you sub out Wacha or Paxton, too, it gets closer to even..

Edited December 30, 2021 by moonslav59

[Bellhorn04]

No.

 

I know yours and others positions and respect them.

 

You can’t handle me disagreeing.

 

You equate understanding with agreeing.

 

I don’t like the trade. I can see how it might work out, if JBJ hits over .680 or so and or a prospect dies well, but I think the trade will be a bad one, despite hearing and understanding the opposing views.

 

Why is that so hard for you to grasp?

 

FYI, I liked several moves Bloom made last year that flopped. I know I can be wrong on this one, too, but I also know maybe you will be instead of me.

 

I think your repeated use of the phrase "head-scratcher" might be the whole problem here LOL