The 2021-2022 Offseason Thread

[notin]

One could argue once a player hits arbitration that it exactly fits the bill.

 

Of course, that is not the case based on your playing time.

 

 

You don’t even have to go all the way to arbitration. Any player who gets drafted is free to negotiate with the drafting team in exchange for services. And while they cannot negotiate with other teams, they are free to negotiate with other leagues. Carter Stewart did this recently, forgoing MLB for Japan. But it’s not a new tactic. JD Drew and Luke Hochevar also did it and played in the Northern League got a year because they could not get the money they wanted from their respective drafting MLB teams.

 

The slotting system doesn’t set pay rates for draft picks; it just sets a total budget for drafting teams…

[Hugh2]

You don’t even have to go all the way to arbitration. Any player who gets drafted is free to negotiate with the drafting team in exchange for services. And while they cannot negotiate with other teams, they are free to negotiate with other leagues. Carter Stewart did this recently, forgoing MLB for Japan. But it’s not a new tactic. JD Drew and Luke Hochevar also did it and played in the Northern League got a year because they could not get the money they wanted from their respective drafting MLB teams.

 

The slotting system doesn’t set pay rates for draft picks; it just sets a total budget for drafting teams…

 

This is also true, but to Harmony's point I think he would remind us that there are a lot more players signing out of the draft for 10K than there are negotiating million-dollar deals.

[notin]

This is also true, but to Harmony's point I think he would remind us that there are a lot more players signing out of the draft for 10K than there are negotiating million-dollar deals.

 

As with any profession, the higher salaries are reserved for the (perceived) elite talents. Certainly a law student who aced his way through an Ivy League law school isn’t likely to be compensated the same as another student who struggled to make it through Barney’s School of Law and Grill.

[Hugh2]

As with any profession, the higher salaries are reserved for the (perceived) elite talents. Certainly a law student who aced his way through an Ivy League law school isn’t likely to be compensated the same as another student who struggled to make it through Barney’s School of Law and Grill.

 

Professional sports is also very unique in that it's all famine or feast. You have to be in the top .01% of your profession to make money. Unlike something like....nursing, you could be in the 50% percentile as a nurse and make a living, if you're in the 50% of pro baseball I'm not even sure you make it to low A.

[notin]

Professional sports is also very unique in that it's all famine or feast. You have to be in the top .01% of your profession to make money. Unlike something like....nursing, you could be in the 50% percentile as a nurse and make a living, if you're in the 50% of pro baseball I'm not even sure you make it to low A.

 

That’s just due to the supply and demand issue. MLB, as the highest global payer of baseball players, only needs 776 people to fill their positions. If there were only 776 nursing positions in the world, those who made the cut would also probably make considerably more as well…

[dgalehouse]

Being great at baseball, or other sports, has no marketable value except for entertainment purposes. It is entirely dependent on fans being willing to spend their money to watch the games. As long as they are willing to do that , all is fine. But no owner is going to shell out big bucks to players without that revenue stream. It all comes down to fan support.

[Hugh2]

That’s just due to the supply and demand issue. MLB, as the highest global payer of baseball players, only needs 776 people to fill their positions. If there were only 776 nursing positions in the world, those who made the cut would also probably make considerably more as well…

 

There's plenty of supply of baseball players, you just don't get paid unless yo'ure at the top. That's how it works in famine and feast industries. There's no shortage of people who consider themselves writers but most of them teach high school 40 hours a week.

 

That's how it goes in the entertainment industry as well, no one buys season tickets and wears a doctor's jersey to go watch surgery.

[Hugh2]

Again, we're comparing a market system to a specific industry, so it's literally like comparing apples and oranges.

[harmony]

As with any profession, the higher salaries are reserved for the (perceived) elite talents. Certainly a law student who aced his way through an Ivy League law school isn’t likely to be compensated the same as another student who struggled to make it through Barney’s School of Law and Grill.

Valid point re compensation but the Ivy League law graduate (and the Barney alum) are free to seek employment anywhere in any jursidiction where they are licensed.

[Nick]

http://www.prospectslive.com/prospects-live/2021/10/22/seiya-suzuki-a-deep-dive-on-the-next-big-thing-out-of-japan

 

Is this why Renfroe was traded? Flexibility of Kike rotating between CF and 2B with JBJ and Arroyo filling in depending where Kike is playing?

[Nick]

http://www.prospectslive.com/prospects-live/2021/10/22/seiya-suzuki-a-deep-dive-on-the-next-big-thing-out-of-japan

 

Is this why Renfroe was traded? Flexibility of Kike rotating between CF and 2B with JBJ and Arroyo filling in depending where Kike is playing?

 

Is this the 'big signing' we're waiting for?

[Swiharts Ghost]

http://www.prospectslive.com/prospects-live/2021/10/22/seiya-suzuki-a-deep-dive-on-the-next-big-thing-out-of-japan

 

Is this why Renfroe was traded? Flexibility of Kike rotating between CF and 2B with JBJ and Arroyo filling in depending where Kike is playing?

 

Is this the 'big signing' we're waiting for?

 

Brought it up a few pages ago but these asshats have me blocked .Nick it’s my belief this makes a lot of sense but funny thing is the guys compared to non other than ??????? Hunter himself .I go to multiple boards and most have been posting this a week or so and many really love the guy .Who knows ? I haven’t seen a lot of him .

Edited December 6, 2021 by Swiharts Ghost

[moonslav59]

I can't imagine an Arrojo-JBJ platoon being all that effective, with Kike sliding back and forth between 2B and CF (RF?).

 

If we sign Suzuki, then JBJ-Arroyo provide a decent platoon bench combo, but at a massive financial cost.

 

Again, this all has to be about the prospects. (IMO)

[Old Red]

I can't imagine an Arrojo-JBJ platoon being all that effective, with Kike sliding back and forth between 2B and CF (RF?).

 

If we sign Suzuki, then JBJ-Arroyo provide a decent platoon bench combo, but at a massive financial cost.

 

Again, this all has to be about the prospects. (IMO)

 

Agreed about the platoon, but is a platoon as important as it used to be? Starters don’t go as many innings anymore, and with openers happening more often the left/right thing just don’t seem as important. Suzuki is an interesting option, but if the Yankees are also interested I don’t see the Sox winning that bidding war.

[Swiharts Ghost]

I can't imagine an Arrojo-JBJ platoon being all that effective, with Kike sliding back and forth between 2B and CF (RF?).

 

If we sign Suzuki, then JBJ-Arroyo provide a decent platoon bench combo, but at a massive financial cost.

 

Again, this all has to be about the prospects. (IMO)

 

To me JBJ needs to be a full time player to be effective.Arroyo is always hurt and to me an afterthought .Bloom should consider jettisoning Mr Arroyo .

[S5Dewey]

It is interesting that some folks who see themselves as pro labor and anti management still have no problem with trading players, and proposing trades , as if the players were expendable chess pieces. Do they realize how disruptive some of these trades are to the people involved, especially those with families ?

 

I'm one of those pro-labor guys and I DO have a problem with trading players for more reasons than the one you mentioned.

 

However, I'm also a Red Sox fan and a baseball fan and as such I recognize the downside for the players. I've long said to my friends that as great as the life of a professional baseball player looks from the outside it has a definite downside. In addition to being worried about being unwillingly uprooted and moving to a new city there's also the day to day issue of being away from ones family for a week or more, and going to the ballpark at 3:00 pm for a night game and getting home at midnight just to do the same thing the next day, followed by a 10 day road trip away from the family. Parts of it suck but the good parts and the money make up for it or else they'd find another line of "work".

 

However, as a fan of the game I also recognize that THEY recognize that it's a part of the game. That's the life they bought into when they decided they want to play Major League Baseball. Therefore my dislike of seeing my favorite players being traded is rooted my own selfishness in knowing that I'm not going to see them play 150 games next year.

 

IMO I can be called selfish for wanting my favorite players to stay in Boston.

They can be called selfish for being MLB players and being willing to leave me.

 

I'd call it a draw.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Agreed about the platoon, but is a platoon as important as it used to be? Starters don’t go as many innings anymore, and with openers happening more often the left/right thing just don’t seem as important. Suzuki is an interesting option, but if the Yankees are also interested I don’t see the Sox winning that bidding war.

 

The left/right swings off the bench are still important because there are so many pitching changes. Tampa had the best record in the AL and platooned everybody except Wander Franco -- and not because he's a star; he's also a switch-hitter. But any resemblance to organizational approaches and blueprints for success are purely coincidental.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I'm one of those pro-labor guys and I DO have a problem with trading players for more reasons than the one you mentioned.

 

However, I'm also a Red Sox fan and a baseball fan and as such I recognize the downside for the players. I've long said to my friends that as great as the life of a professional baseball player looks from the outside it has a definite downside. In addition to being worried about being unwillingly uprooted and moving to a new city there's also the day to day issue of being away from ones family for a week or more, and going to the ballpark at 3:00 pm for a night game and getting home at midnight just to do the same thing the next day, followed by a 10 day road trip away from the family. Parts of it suck but the good parts and the money make up for it or else they'd find another line of "work".

 

However, as a fan of the game I also recognize that THEY recognize that it's a part of the game. That's the life they bought into when they decided they want to play Major League Baseball. Therefore my dislike of seeing my favorite players being traded is rooted my own selfishness in knowing that I'm not going to see them play 150 games next year.

 

IMO I can be called selfish for wanting my favorite players to stay in Boston.

They can be called selfish for being MLB players and being willing to leave me.

 

I'd call it a draw.

 

Good post. As a kid, I always thought the Reserve Clause was good for fandom -- and it certainly was for baseball fans in places like Baltimore, Cincy, Pittsburgh and Oakland; we knew it was selfish, but we loved rooting for our favorite players. But Free Agency is also good for fans of clubs who can afford to spend to improve...

 

As far as being traded and/or signed to play in another part of the country, employees get job transfers all the time from companies. Of course, most can refuse to move, but they'd also have to find employment elsewhere. And those at the top of their industries usually have their pick of where they want to relocate.

[Bellhorn04]

A column in the Boston Globe yesterday shed some light on why this will be a protracted struggle. The players are going after some semi-radical changes, such as instituting a draft lottery to discourage tanking. Reportedly the owners are on board with a 3 team lottery but the players want an 8 team lottery.

[mvp 78]

Brought it up a few pages ago but these asshats have me blocked .Nick it’s my belief this makes a lot of sense but funny thing is the guys compared to non other than ??????? Hunter himself .I go to multiple boards and most have been posting this a week or so and many really love the guy .Who knows ? I haven’t seen a lot of him .

 

He's compared to Renfroe, but I believe his defense is supposed to be much better. We liked Renfroe's arm, but the overall defensive package was lacking.

[mvp 78]

To me JBJ needs to be a full time player to be effective.Arroyo is always hurt and to me an afterthought .Bloom should consider jettisoning Mr Arroyo .

 

Arroyo is cheap enough this year that you can keep him around. He's probably not a long term fit.

[mvp 78]

A column in the Boston Globe yesterday shed some light on why this will be a protracted struggle. The players are going after some semi-radical changes, such as instituting a draft lottery to discourage tanking. Reportedly the owners are on board with a 3 team lottery but the players want an 8 team lottery.

 

I don't know if tanking is as much of a big deal in MLB as it is in NFL. The difference between the top pick and the 5th pick isn't as great as it is in other sports.

[moonslav59]

Agreed about the platoon, but is a platoon as important as it used to be? Starters don’t go as many innings anymore, and with openers happening more often the left/right thing just don’t seem as important. Suzuki is an interesting option, but if the Yankees are also interested I don’t see the Sox winning that bidding war.

 

It's not about who has more money. It's about who is willing to spend more and perhaps tax line implications. (IMO)

[notin]

I don't know if tanking is as much of a big deal in MLB as it is in NFL. The difference between the top pick and the 5th pick isn't as great as it is in other sports.

 

The NBA is the king of tanking teams, because there are only maybe 2 or 3 players in any given draft that turn into instant impact players.

 

but in MLB, it makes very little sense. No one thinks Henry Davis is going to make the Pirates instant contenders. In fact, unlike the NFL and the NBA, even figuring out who the top pick in the MLB draft is up for a lot more debate, and quite often the top 7 or 8 picks get re-arranged in an order not found in any mock drafts...

[mvp 78]

The NBA is the king of tanking teams, because there are only maybe 2 or 3 players in any given draft that turn into instant impact players.

 

but in MLB, it makes very little sense. No one thinks Henry Davis is going to make the Pirates instant contenders. In fact, unlike the NFL and the NBA, even figuring out who the top pick in the MLB draft is up for a lot more debate, and quite often the top 7 or 8 picks get re-arranged in an order not found in any mock drafts...

 

These teams are tanking, but it's not really for draft position. It's just to save $$$. Then they'll put the carrot out to their fans once a decade or so and be a half baked contender.

[notin]

These teams are tanking, but it's not really for draft position. It's just to save $$$. Then they'll put the carrot out to their fans once a decade or so and be a half baked contender.

 

Exactly.

 

And therefore losing for a better draft position is actually counterproductive, since top draft picks comman more $$$$$.

 

There was a time when "rebuilding" meant "trying to put together a better team in the near future", but now it just seems to mean "saving lots of money and hoping things work out."

[mvp 78]

Exactly.

 

And therefore losing for a better draft position is actually counterproductive, since top draft picks comman more $$$$$.

 

There was a time when "rebuilding" meant "trying to put together a better team in the near future", but now it just seems to mean "saving lots of money and hoping things work out."

 

And how often are the worst teams taking 1st round picks at below slot deals? This really is a non issue IMO.

 

It's probably just a bargaining chip for the players.

[moonslav59]

And how often are the worst teams taking 1st round picks at below slot deals? This really is a non issue IMO.

 

It's probably just a bargaining chip for the players.

 

Their focus should be on raising the minimum wage and quickening the times to get to arb and free agency.

[notin]

And how often are the worst teams taking 1st round picks at below slot deals? This really is a non issue IMO.

 

It's probably just a bargaining chip for the players.

 

Especially since the union historically could not give a s*** about draft picks and minor leaguers....

[moonslav59]

14 Team MLB Playoffs?

 

6 "wild card teams" play a 3 game series.

 

Under MLB’s vision, the two division winners in each league that don’t receive the bye would choose their Wild Card series opponents. The division winner with the second-best record would choose its opponent from the bottom three Wild Card clubs; the remaining division winner would have its pick of the bottom two Wild Card teams still available; the remaining Wild Card winners would face one another. The higher-seeded team in each league would host all three games of the opening series.

 

-MLBTR