The 2021-2022 Offseason Thread

[Kimmi]

It will only be improved defense if he can hit enough to stay on the field, which I doubt.

 

I'm thinking that he'll end up being more of a 4th OFer and defensive replacement type player, rather than an everyday player.

 

Even if JBJ ends up not playing at all, this move was about the prospects. What we get in terms of production from JBJ is gravy.

[Bellhorn04]

Even if JBJ ends up not playing at all, this move was about the prospects. What we get in terms of production from JBJ is gravy.

 

Not sure I agree.

 

If we get nothing from JBJ I think that makes the deal questionable, unless the prospects are MUCH better than their rankings.

[Old Red]

Not sure I agree.

 

If we get nothing from JBJ I think that makes the deal questionable, unless the prospects are MUCH better than their rankings.

 

The deal has been questionable from the time it was made prospects, or not.

[moonslav59]

I am not for them, but the tea leaves I’m reading do suggest one might be possible. Just because I predict something doesn’t mean I endorse it…

 

As the current roster is constructed or with the addition of Suzuki, it makes sense, whether we like the idea or not, so sometimes and endorsement is called for.

[Bellhorn04]

The deal has been questionable from the time it was made prospects, or not.

 

Yeah, there's nothing wrong with saying a move like this is questionable, because there are a bunch of X factors.

 

If Renfroe has a good 2022 and JBJ bombs, and the prospects don't work out, it's pretty hard to call it a good deal!

[moonslav59]

Yeah, there's nothing wrong with saying a move like this is questionable, because there are a bunch of X factors.

 

If Renfroe has a good 2022 and JBJ bombs, and the prospects don't work out, it's pretty hard to call it a good deal!

 

When things are questionable, do you sometimes scratch your head?

 

LOL!

[notin]

Yeah, there's nothing wrong with saying a move like this is questionable, because there are a bunch of X factors.

 

If Renfroe has a good 2022 and JBJ bombs, and the prospects don't work out, it's pretty hard to call it a good deal!

 

 

Judging trades in hindsight is differ than judging them when they are made. Did the Bradley/Renfroe trade make sense today? At a minimum, opinions are divided….

[Bellhorn04]

When things are questionable, do you sometimes scratch your head?

 

LOL!

 

No, to me a head-scratcher means you have absolutely no idea why it was done LOL

[notin]

No, to me a head-scratcher means you have absolutely no idea why it was done LOL

 

Or you have dandruff…

[Bellhorn04]

Judging trades in hindsight is differ than judging them when they are made. Did the Bradley/Renfroe trade make sense today? At a minimum, opinions are divided….

 

In general I agree with that, but in this case, if you like the deal, you're banking on Bloom's evaluation of the prospects being justified, which really remains to be seen.

[notin]

In general I agree with that, but in this case, if you like the deal, you're banking on Bloom's evaluation of the prospects being justified, which really remains to be seen.

 

 

Fair, unless you count Whitlock.

 

I mean, drafting Marcelo Mayer didn’t take a huge amount of baseball acumen and savvy...

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I just get the feeling Bloom and company don't even look at trades as specific wins or losses, even longterm -- not when each transaction to them is just another red or black line on a long page in a thick ledger.

 

A year ago, posters postulated that the Benintendi trade and the Renfroe signing were directly connected; that dumping Beni's $6+ million allowed signing Hunter for half that. Their WARs were around the same, but even if you argue Andrew was slightly better (in bWAR and fWAR), he certainly wasn't worth twice as much salary... right?

 

The key is that Bloom now had an extra $3 mil to spend on someone (or somewhere) else. But who's to say how those savings were spent... tacked onto the Kike contract... or blown Marwin money? Did they take Marcelo Mayer's family out to dinner... or pay the room service for guy who scouted Jud Fabian?

 

Beni for Winckowski et al and Renfroe and Whitlock... or Beni for Franchy et al, Renfroe, Andriese and Brad Peacock... to Bloom, it's all part of the budget.

[Bellhorn04]

I just get the feeling Bloom and company don't even look at trades as specific wins or losses, even longterm -- not when each transaction to them is just another red or black line on a long page in a thick ledger.

 

A year ago, posters postulated that the Benintendi trade and the Renfroe signing were directly connected; that dumping Beni's $6+ million allowed signing Hunter for half that. Their WARs were around the same, but even if you argue Andrew was slightly better (in bWAR and fWAR), he certainly wasn't worth twice as much salary... right?

 

The key is that Bloom now had an extra $3 mil to spend on someone (or somewhere) else. But who's to say how those savings were spent... tacked onto the Kike contract... or blown Marwin money? Did they take Marcelo Mayer's family out to dinner... or pay the room service for guy who scouted Jud Fabian?

 

Beni for Winckowski et al and Renfroe and Whitlock... or Beni for Franchy et al, Renfroe, Andriese and Brad Peacock... to Bloom, it's all part of the budget.

 

I just try to look at each transaction on its own merits.

 

With the Renfroe for Bradley trade, it looks like a net payroll addition of about $5 mill over 2 years. But there are some variables with this one, so it'll be at least 2 years before we can really size it up.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I just try to look at each transaction on its own merits.

 

With the Renfroe for Bradley trade, it looks like a net payroll addition of about $5 mill over 2 years. But there are some variables with this one, so it'll be at least 2 years before we can really size it up.

 

I get it, and that's what we sensibly want to do when trying to make sense of it all. When we consider Bradley's salary as a "net payroll addition," it only guarantees an increase in payroll, not WAR or win-loss perspective. But it also gives management a tweet opp: look -- we spent more this year!

[Nick]

I get it, and that's what we sensibly want to do when trying to make sense of it all. When we consider Bradley's salary as a "net payroll addition," it only guarantees an increase in payroll, not WAR or win-loss perspective. But it also gives management a tweet opp: look -- we spent more this year!

 

Sox can claim to be one of bigger spenders each year. I don't think they really care what you and I think on a seasonal basis. They are not cheap. Period.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Sox can claim to be one of bigger spenders each year. I don't think they really care what you and I think on a seasonal basis. They are not cheap. Period.

 

Nope, but it's not just what they spend on players. It's easy to overlook what is often unseen: that Boston (and NY, LA, etc) maybe has the luxury of affording more and better organizational staffing and scouting than smaller markets.

[Nick]

Nope, but it's not just what they spend on players. It's easy to overlook what is often unseen: that Boston (and NY, LA, etc) maybe has the luxury of affording more and better organizational staffing and scouting than smaller markets.

 

I trust Bloom but not sure why the JBJ deal had to get done prior to lock out. Not sure if there were several teams clamoring to obtain JBJ before the lockout.

[Old Red]

Sox can claim to be one of bigger spenders each year. I don't think they really care what you and I think on a seasonal basis. They are not cheap. Period.

 

No the Sox Can not claim to be big spenders each year. Their overall payroll is up there, but they didn’t spend big last year, and so far they have stuck to what they said they would do this year, and not spent much either.

[notin]

No the Sox Can not claim to be big spenders each year. Their overall payroll is up there, but they didn’t spend big last year, and so far they have stuck to what they said they would do this year, and not spent much either.

 

 

Just because the Sox didn’t add umpteen millions in new contracts last off-seasons doesn’t mean they’re not big spenders. Sportscaster had them sixth in MLB, and that’s after three off-season of being somewhat frugal, relatively speaking. They didn’t get that high by not spending.

 

And this off-season is far from over…

[Old Red]

Just because the Sox didn’t add umpteen millions in new contracts last off-seasons doesn’t mean they’re not big spenders. Sportscaster had them sixth in MLB, and that’s after three off-season of being somewhat frugal, relatively speaking. They didn’t get that high by not spending.

 

And this off-season is far from over…

 

I’m talking about the last two years. I already mentioned their overall payroll was up there, but most of that was accumulated prior to 2020. The Sox offered a token contract to Mookie knowing he wouldn’t take it, and probably won’t extend, or rework Bogey. Then it’s a toss up on Raffy, so I’m not all that impressed with being sixth in payroll at the present time. The next two years will tell how they will go in the near future.

[S5Dewey]

The problem with spending bigger and bigger is that the penalties for doing it get bigger and bigger. MLB has attempted to rig the system to keep teams from improving year after year, not only in money but in draft picks.

 

IMO we shouldn't realistically expect JH to spend more forever and in turn be willing to pay more and more in penalties. What we should expect is for the team to spend big for a few years to build a WSC caliber team, back the salaries down for a couple of years to avoid the penalties and then wash, repeat.

 

I trust Bloom to know what he's doing and when the time is right he'll make the big splash(es) necessary.

[moonslav59]

Or you have dandruff…

 

Or lice.

 

Or it was just a brief scratch over a questionable event.

[moonslav59]

No the Sox Can not claim to be big spenders each year. Their overall payroll is up there, but they didn’t spend big last year, and so far they have stuck to what they said they would do this year, and not spent much either.

 

They actually do spend big every year. Sometimes, it's extensions.

 

Last season, a below tax line year, we still spent $40M. The reason it didn't seem like that was because it was spent on about 10 guys, and all but Kike and Sawamura were 1 year deals.

 

How many teams spent $40M AAV last winter?

[harmony]

MLB Trade Rumors offers its analysis of the current Red Sox situation:

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/01/red-sox-have-the-flexibility-to-pursue-an-impact-move-coming-out-of-the-lockout.html#comments

[Old Red]

The problem with spending bigger and bigger is that the penalties for doing it get bigger and bigger. MLB has attempted to rig the system to keep teams from improving year after year, not only in money but in draft picks.

 

IMO we shouldn't realistically expect JH to spend more forever and in turn be willing to pay more and more in penalties. What we should expect is for the team to spend big for a few years to build a WSC caliber team, back the salaries down for a couple of years to avoid the penalties and then wash, repeat.

 

I trust Bloom to know what he's doing and when the time is right he'll make the big splash(es) necessary.

 

I keep hearing that people say they trust Bloom, and he knows what he’s doing, and I’m not disputing that, but how he does business is not really up to him, but up to John Henry.

[moonslav59]

The problem with spending bigger and bigger is that the penalties for doing it get bigger and bigger. MLB has attempted to rig the system to keep teams from improving year after year, not only in money but in draft picks.

 

IMO we shouldn't realistically expect JH to spend more forever and in turn be willing to pay more and more in penalties. What we should expect is for the team to spend big for a few years to build a WSC caliber team, back the salaries down for a couple of years to avoid the penalties and then wash, repeat.

 

I trust Bloom to know what he's doing and when the time is right he'll make the big splash(es) necessary.

 

Well said.

 

I think they viewed 2021 as a wash year, but we surprised even Henry & Co.

 

That's one reason I expected opening up the wallet, this winter, and it still may happen, but maybe the winnings eason allows Henry to put off on big spending another year or two.

 

Next winter we lose a ton of salary, including Price.

 

That should e the telling winter.

[Old Red]

They actually do spend big every year. Sometimes, it's extensions.

 

Last season, a below tax line year, we still spent $40M. The reason it didn't seem like that was because it was spent on about 10 guys, and all but Kike and Sawamura were 1 year deals.

 

How many teams spent $40M AAV last winter?

 

I’m not saying they don’t spend money, but just that they are not giving out big contracts at the present time.

[moonslav59]

I’m not saying they don’t spend money, but just that they are not giving out big contracts at the present time.

 

I think you did actually say they are not big spenders, but what is a big spender? If the Sox spend more on AAV than all but 3-5 teams, isn't that spending big?

 

I realize spending on long deals is different, and we have avoided that for several years, not counting extensions.

 

You did say... "they didn’t spend big last year, and so far they have stuck to what they said they would do this year, and not spent much either..."

[Bellhorn04]

I’m not saying they don’t spend money, but just that they are not giving out big contracts at the present time.

 

Bloom has not given out anything resembling a big contract yet, that is certainly true.

[Bellhorn04]

Or lice.

 

Or it was just a brief scratch over a questionable event.

 

And you have a picture of the great philosopher Nietzsche scratching his head. That image really suits you.