The 2021-2022 Offseason Thread

[dgalehouse]

That's Snagglepuss you're quoting.

 

Also, not so sure he was straight...

 

Not exactly helping your case by knowing that.

[moonslav59]

That's Snagglepuss you're quoting.

 

Also, not so sure he was straight...

 

… not that it matters…

[notin]

… not that it matters…

 

 

I believe the expression is “not that there’s anything wrong with that.”

[moonslav59]

I believe the expression is “not that there’s anything wrong with that.”

 

From Seinfeld, right?

 

[notin]

From Seinfeld, right?

 

 

Correct…

[Swiharts Ghost]

Correct…

 

Back on topic .Word going around some other boards is Chaim May be using the prospects he traded for to go in a trade to Oakland ? Seems probable ?also Suzuki more likely with the JBJ acquisition.

Edited December 5, 2021 by Swiharts Ghost

[S5Dewey]

That’s how capitalism works.

 

But MLB isn't capitalism in it's strictest sense. The Federal Government is colluding with MBL by granting the anti-trust exemption. Amazon, WalMart, etc., companies that are operating under the capitalistic principles are subject to the laws governing interstate commerce where MLB is not.

 

MLB’s antitrust exemption resulted from a 1922 Supreme Court ruling that stated, somewhat incredulously, that the business of Major League Baseball did not constitute “interstate commerce,” thus making it exempt from the Sherman Act, which prevents businesses from conspiring with one another in an effort to thwart competition.

This anti-trust exemption has given teams the right to operate as a defacto monopoly even though there are several teams operating in several states.

 

IMO this is a pretty good read on MLB's anti-trust exemption, the history of it, and how it affects baseball.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2021/04/13/mlb-antitrust-exemption-immunity-ted-cruz-josh-hawley-baseball-all-star-game/7211552002/

[notin]

But MLB isn't capitalism in it's strictest sense. The Federal Government is colluding with MBL by granting the anti-trust exemption. Amazon, WalMart, etc., companies that are operating under the capitalistic principles are subject to the laws governing interstate commerce where MLB is not.

 

MLB’s antitrust exemption resulted from a 1922 Supreme Court ruling that stated, somewhat incredulously, that the business of Major League Baseball did not constitute “interstate commerce,” thus making it exempt from the Sherman Act, which prevents businesses from conspiring with one another in an effort to thwart competition.

This anti-trust exemption has given teams the right to operate as a defacto monopoly even though there are several teams operating in several states.

 

IMO this is a pretty good read on MLB's anti-trust exemption, the history of it, and how it affects baseball.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2021/04/13/mlb-antitrust-exemption-immunity-ted-cruz-josh-hawley-baseball-all-star-game/7211552002/

 

 

There absolutely is something to anti-trust exemption negating the capitalistic aspect of it (although it’s not hard to argue that anti-trust exemption is just another economic feature to capitalize on.)

 

But bare bones capitalism involves employee compensation through pre-determined wages in exchange for producing goods and/or services. In that respect, MLB does fit the bill.

 

But your point is valid…

[harmony]

There absolutely is something to anti-trust exemption negating the capitalistic aspect of it (although it’s not hard to argue that anti-trust exemption is just another economic feature to capitalize on.)

 

But bare bones capitalism involves employee compensation through pre-determined wages in exchange for producing goods and/or services. In that respect, MLB does fit the bill.

 

But your point is valid…

In bare bones capitalism prospective employers and prospective employees are free to negotiate with whomever they wish for that exchange of wages and services.

 

In that respect, MLB does not fit the bill.

[Bellhorn04]

The MLB payroll and payroll tax systems are unique, methinks. Are there any other industries in which companies whose payroll exceeds a certain level gets penalized for it? And that's just one of the quirks.

[notin]

In bare bones capitalism prospective employers and prospective employees are free to negotiate with whomever they wish for that exchange of wages and services.

 

In that respect, MLB does not fit the bill.

 

I had absolutely no idea any player drafted a Major League team was not allowed to pursue other opportunities for employment…

[jad]

The MLB payroll and payroll tax systems are unique, methinks. Are there any other industries in which companies whose payroll exceeds a certain level gets penalized for it? And that's just one of the quirks.

 

Well, the stockholders and CEOs get penalized because they have to share their wealth with (you know!) those 'worker'-types. Ugh. It's really sad that board-members have to dirty their hands by associating with such rabble.

[harmony]

I had absolutely no idea any player drafted a Major League team was not allowed to pursue other opportunities for employment…

The analogy would be the person with a specialized skill -- let's say a physician leaving residency* -- being limited to a single employer in health care. Sure, the physician instead could choose to work as a Lyft driver.

 

That's not bare bones capitalism.

* although medical school students face similar restrictions on Match Day when residency assignments are announced

Edited December 5, 2021 by harmony

[notin]

The analogy would be the person with a specialized skill -- let's say a physician leaving residency* -- being limited to a single employer in health care. Sure, the physician instead could choose to work as a Lyft driver.

 

That's not bare bones capitalism.

* although medical school students face similar restrictions on Match Day when residency assignments are announced

 

It also helps you analogy if you pretend

 

1) MLB is 30 different companies and not one company

2) there are no other professional leagues

3) and they cannot negotiate their pay, which many somehow still do anyway…

[Bellhorn04]

The analogy would be the person with a specialized skill -- let's say a physician leaving residency* -- being limited to a single employer in health care. Sure, the physician instead could choose to work as a Lyft driver.

 

That's not bare bones capitalism.

* although medical school students face similar restrictions on Match Day when residency assignments are announced

 

One could argue that the hypothetical player notin is talking about is free to play in any other professional baseball league not controlled by MLB.

[moonslav59]

But MLB isn't capitalism in it's strictest sense. The Federal Government is colluding with MBL by granting the anti-trust exemption. Amazon, WalMart, etc., companies that are operating under the capitalistic principles are subject to the laws governing interstate commerce where MLB is not.

 

MLB’s antitrust exemption resulted from a 1922 Supreme Court ruling that stated, somewhat incredulously, that the business of Major League Baseball did not constitute “interstate commerce,” thus making it exempt from the Sherman Act, which prevents businesses from conspiring with one another in an effort to thwart competition.

This anti-trust exemption has given teams the right to operate as a defacto monopoly even though there are several teams operating in several states.

 

IMO this is a pretty good read on MLB's anti-trust exemption, the history of it, and how it affects baseball.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2021/04/13/mlb-antitrust-exemption-immunity-ted-cruz-josh-hawley-baseball-all-star-game/7211552002/

 

Bingo

[Hugh2]

In bare bones capitalism prospective employers and prospective employees are free to negotiate with whomever they wish for that exchange of wages and services.

 

In that respect, MLB does not fit the bill.

 

One could argue once a player hits arbitration that it exactly fits the bill.

 

Of course, that is not the case based on your playing time.

[harmony]

One could argue once a player hits arbitration that it exactly fits the bill.

 

Of course, that is not the case based on your playing time.

With the exception of the small percentage who reach free agency, the player is not free to bargain with any team (and teams are not free to bargain with any player).

[moonslav59]

One could argue once a player hits arbitration that it exactly fits the bill.

 

Of course, that is not the case based on your playing time.

 

Since so many professional players never make it to the bigs, let alone arbitration, and even less to free agency, the thought that there is a give and take is just too rare to be considered fair.

[Tedballgame]

Its going to be a boring few months of baseball if the lock out continues. No one can do anything during the lock out so there won't be any information coming out.

[dgalehouse]

It is interesting that some folks who see themselves as pro labor and anti management still have no problem with trading players, and proposing trades , as if the players were expendable chess pieces. Do they realize how disruptive some of these trades are to the people involved, especially those with families ? And the idea that if they don't like it , they can always quit and move to Asia to play pro ball is not realistic for most. MLB is their career , their livelihood. These labor vs management disputes can be difficult . The owners are mostly billionaires. And the players , for the most part , are becoming wealthy at a young age. They know it's a business. And they know what they are signing up for, and sometimes you have to take the good with the bad. But I do find it odd that folks who are all pro labor , still think the trading of players is such fun.

[moonslav59]

It is interesting that some folks who see themselves as pro labor and anti management still have no problem with trading players, and proposing trades , as if the players were expendable chess pieces. Do they realize how disruptive some of these trades are to the people involved, especially those with families ? And the idea that if they don't like it , they can always quit and move to Asia to play pro ball is not realistic for most. MLB is their career , their livelihood. These labor vs management disputes can be difficult . The owners are mostly billionaires. And the players , for the most part , are becoming wealthy at a young age. They know it's a business. And they know what they are signing up for, and sometimes you have to take the good with the bad. But I do find it odd that folks who are all pro labor , still think the trading of players is such fun.

 

It's a blast!

 

Maybe half the players like being traded.

 

[notin]

With the exception of the small percentage who reach free agency, the player is not free to bargain with any team (and teams are not free to bargain with any player).

 

 

But they are free to bargain with the Northern League, KBO, NPB, the Japanese PCL, and, well, any of the numerous leagues on this list.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_organized_baseball_leagues

 

Just like Carter Stewart did…

[notin]

It is interesting that some folks who see themselves as pro labor and anti management still have no problem with trading players, and proposing trades , as if the players were expendable chess pieces. Do they realize how disruptive some of these trades are to the people involved, especially those with families ? And the idea that if they don't like it , they can always quit and move to Asia to play pro ball is not realistic for most. MLB is their career , their livelihood. These labor vs management disputes can be difficult . The owners are mostly billionaires. And the players , for the most part , are becoming wealthy at a young age. They know it's a business. And they know what they are signing up for, and sometimes you have to take the good with the bad. But I do find it odd that folks who are all pro labor , still think the trading of players is such fun.

 

And if we stop proposing trades on Internet forums, it will stop this horrible practice in the real world, right?

[notin]

It's a blast!

 

Maybe half the players like being traded.

 

 

Like how Steve Piscotty wound up in Oakland?

 

Piscotty is from the Bay Area, and when his mother was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s, he asked the Cardinals if he could be dealt closer to home. For no reason that benefited their team, the Cardinsls dealt him to the A’s for two minor league utility infielders (one of whom was Yairo Munoz)…

[Swiharts Ghost]

Like how Steve Piscotty wound up in Oakland?

 

Piscotty is from the Bay Area, and when his mother was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s, he asked the Cardinals if he could be dealt closer to home. For no reason that benefited their team, the Cardinsls dealt him to the A’s for two minor league utility infielders (one of whom was Yairo Munoz)…

 

I know the family ...well Andrew and his wife .Fantstic family .

[Bellhorn04]

It is interesting that some folks who see themselves as pro labor and anti management still have no problem with trading players, and proposing trades , as if the players were expendable chess pieces. Do they realize how disruptive some of these trades are to the people involved, especially those with families ? And the idea that if they don't like it , they can always quit and move to Asia to play pro ball is not realistic for most. MLB is their career , their livelihood. These labor vs management disputes can be difficult . The owners are mostly billionaires. And the players , for the most part , are becoming wealthy at a young age. They know it's a business. And they know what they are signing up for, and sometimes you have to take the good with the bad. But I do find it odd that folks who are all pro labor , still think the trading of players is such fun.

 

Everyone acts out of self-interest.

 

The owners are interested in getting money from the fans.

The players are interested in getting money from the owners.

The fans are interested in getting entertainment-performance and wins-from the players.

 

There's not much sentiment on anyone's part.

[moonslav59]

Everyone acts out of self-interest.

 

The owners are interested in getting money from the fans.

The players are interested in getting money from the owners.

The fans are interested in getting entertainment-performance and wins-from the players.

 

There's not much sentiment on anyone's part.

 

Sometimes, you make too much sense!

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Everyone acts out of self-interest.

 

The owners are interested in getting money from the fans.

The players are interested in getting money from the owners.

The fans are interested in getting entertainment-performance and wins-from the players.

 

There's not much sentiment on anyone's part.

 

Ah, but both the owners and players -- through assumptions that fans will always come back (until we die off) -- prey upon our nostalgia for the game... and the uniforms; though for some reason, I can't imagine both Rays fans showing future enthusiasm for seeing their heroes in Montreal Expos' duds half the time.

[Bellhorn04]

What goes on between the owners and the players is a power struggle, basically.