The 2021-2022 Offseason Thread

[Old Red]

I think you did actually say they are not big spenders, but what is a big spender? If the Sox spend more on AAV than all but 3-5 teams, isn't that spending big?

 

I realize spending on long deals is different, and we have avoided that for several years, not counting extensions.

 

You did say... "they didn’t spend big last year, and so far they have stuck to what they said they would do this year, and not spent much either..."

 

I know I said they were not big senders last year, but big contracts were what I meant. I’ve been hearing you talk about $40M for some time now, so I wouldn’t forget about that, but $40 million wasn’t so big to the Sox not that long ago.

[S5Dewey]

I keep hearing that people say they trust Bloom, and he knows what he’s doing, and I’m not disputing that, but how he does business is not really up to him, but up to John Henry.

 

I don't have access to JH's office @ Fenway but IMO it's a collaborative effort. People in JH's position didn't make their money by making unilateral decisions. They made it by hiring people whom they think have good judgement, and listening to them.

 

I don't think Bloom has an open checkbook to work with but if Bloom sees something expensive that makes good sense to him JH is willing to listen. That's why Bloom got hired.

[Nick]

 

Old Red, do you mean John Henry is not up to this standard?

[Old Red]

I don't have access to JH's office @ Fenway but IMO it's a collaborative effort. People in JH's position didn't make their money by making unilateral decisions. They made it by hiring people whom they think have good judgement, and listening to them.

 

I don't think Bloom has an open checkbook to work with but if Bloom sees something expensive that makes good sense to him JH is willing to listen. That's why Bloom got hired.

 

I ve mentioned this before that Bloom got hired to scour the bargain basements, minor leagues, and waiver wire that he had experienced at Tampa something that the likes of Dombrowski, or Theo wouldn’t do.

[Old Red]

They actually do spend big every year. Sometimes, it's extensions.

 

Last season, a below tax line year, we still spent $40M. The reason it didn't seem like that was because it was spent on about 10 guys, and all but Kike and Sawamura were 1 year deals.

 

How many teams spent $40M AAV last winter?

 

Moon I know you know the answer to this, but with spending $40M last year how much did they actually add to the overall payroll?

[S5Dewey]

I ve mentioned this before that Bloom got hired to scour the bargain basements, minor leagues, and waiver wire that he had experienced at Tampa something that the likes of Dombrowski, or Theo wouldn’t do.

 

 

You say ^this^ like it's a fact. Do you have a source?

 

I believe that while this was a part of the reason for hiring Bloom the end goal was to have Bloom construct a team of good-value players, Bloom is also charged with identifying/selecting current MLB players and FA's to fill the weaker spots. I believe that because it's the job of the GM.

[notin]

I ve mentioned this before that Bloom got hired to scour the bargain basements, minor leagues, and waiver wire that he had experienced at Tampa something that the likes of Dombrowski, or Theo wouldn’t do.

 

Theo didn’t scour bargain basements and waiver wires? Have you talked to David Ortiz about this?

[Old Red]

You say ^this^ like it's a fact. Do you have a source?

 

I believe that while this was a part of the reason for hiring Bloom the end goal was to have Bloom construct a team of good-value players, Bloom is also charged with identifying/selecting current MLB players and FA's to fill the weaker spots. I believe that because it's the job of the GM.

 

No I don’t have a source, but just an opinion like everyone else. Every teams GM is different depending on what the goal is, and how much money they have to spend. GM’s in Boston, and NY are a lot different than Florida, or Pittsburg, or this year being a big spender like Texas. Dombrowski had worn out his welcome, and the Red Sox wanted to take a different approach of doing things, and that’s why I think that’s why Bloom got hired, which is nothing wrong in doing that.

Edited January 2, 2022 by Old Red

[Old Red]

Theo didn’t scour bargain basements and waiver wires? Have you talked to David Ortiz about this?

 

That was quite a find just like EL Tiante back in the day.

[notin]

That was quite a find just like EL Tiante back in the day.

 

Epstein also brought in Kevin Millar, who was mere seconds away from departing for Japan to play for the Chunichi Dragons. He did his share of scrounging…

[Old Red]

Epstein also brought in Kevin Millar, who was mere seconds away from departing for Japan to play for the Chunichi Dragons. He did his share of scrounging…

 

I guess I still haven’t learned yet when I generalize when making statements, because people like to analyze, and zero in kind of like Moon’s head scratching, and people went on, and on even though he didn’t mean it that way, so I’ll try it again. Blooms main way of operation is to scour the bargain basements etc where Theo, and Dombrowski would do it, but was not there main way of doing things. I don’t think Bloom would spend Thanksgiving with a Whacka type like Theo did with Schillings.

.

[moonslav59]

Moon I know you know the answer to this, but with spending $40M last year how much did they actually add to the overall payroll?

 

They added $40M AAV

Richards

Ottavino

Kike

Perez

Renfroe

Marwin

Andriese

Sawamara

Other smaller deals

Adding Schwarber, Iggy, Shaw, Robles and Davis, during the year

Then later, the Barnes extension, which I did not count.

[Bellhorn04]

I don’t think Bloom would spend Thanksgiving with a Whacka type like Theo did with Schillings.

.

 

LOL that's pretty good.

 

I hear that Bloom sent Wacha some McDonald's gift cards, and that was the end of it.

[notin]

LOL that's pretty good.

 

I hear that Bloom sent Wacha some McDonald's gift cards, and that was the end of it.

 

And he didn’t even bother to pre-load them…

[Bellhorn04]

And he didn’t even bother to pre-load them…

 

Oh man. You take a good joke and turn it into something abysmally silly LOL

[notin]

Oh man. You take a good joke and turn it into something abysmally silly LOL

 

 

 

I could have kept going and added that Bloom handed him the empty cards and said “Here, put some of that $7million you’re not worth on these.”

[Bellhorn04]

I could have kept going and added that Bloom handed him the empty cards and said “Here, put some of that $7million you’re not worth on these.”

 

Which proves that humor can only be stretched so far.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Which proves that humor can only be stretched so far.

 

I'm just paraphrasing here, but if we didn't make so many jokes, we wouldn't have so many positive posters.

[moonslav59]

I'm just paraphrasing here, but if we didn't make so many jokes, we wouldn't have so many positive posters.

 

True nuff!

[Kimmi]

Not sure I agree.

 

If we get nothing from JBJ I think that makes the deal questionable, unless the prospects are MUCH better than their rankings.

 

For me, it's not about looking at what a particular prospect is going to amount to, but what the farm system on the whole looks like. I'm guessing that while Bloom thinks that JBJ will rebound, he was really simply buying prospects. If JBJ works out, then great. If he doesn't, the prospects were another step towards improving an already very much improved farm.

[moonslav59]

For me, it's not about looking at what a particular prospect is going to amount to, but what the farm system on the whole looks like. I'm guessing that while Bloom thinks that JBJ will rebound, he was really simply buying prospects. If JBJ works out, then great. If he doesn't, the prospects were another step towards improving an already very much improved farm.

 

I think that and the fact that they viewed Renfroe as a wash or negative value per contract dollar 2022-2023.

 

RF defense is worth more to a Red Sox team than the norm, although some of that has to do with arm strength, where he excelled.

[Kimmi]

I ve mentioned this before that Bloom got hired to scour the bargain basements, minor leagues, and waiver wire that he had experienced at Tampa something that the likes of Dombrowski, or Theo wouldn’t do.

 

I think that Bloom was hired to do just this, initially, to get the Red Sox back on track. The Sox needed to scale back in order to both reset the luxury tax and to rebuild the farm system, to build sustainability, as Bloom likes to say. As I posted before, I really don't think that this is any indication that Henry will not spend this year or in the future.

 

If Bloom sees a larger contract that fits the team, Henry will give the okay. That said, there is absolutely nothing wrong with those small market moves, even for a big market team.

 

I'm wondering how big a factor the potential extensions of Devers and Bogaerts is on the other payroll spending.

[Kimmi]

I think that and the fact that they viewed Renfroe as a wash or negative value per contract dollar 2022-2023.

 

RF defense is worth more to a Red Sox team than the norm, although some of that has to do with arm strength, where he excelled.

 

I guess we'll have to wait to see how Renfroe performs this season and next. I really hated to lose him. I think that for the upcoming season, the deal will be a loss for us. But over the long term, it should end up being a plus.

[Old Red]

I think that Bloom was hired to do just this, initially, to get the Red Sox back on track. The Sox needed to scale back in order to both reset the luxury tax and to rebuild the farm system, to build sustainability, as Bloom likes to say. As I posted before, I really don't think that this is any indication that Henry will not spend this year or in the future.

 

If Bloom sees a larger contract that fits the team, Henry will give the okay. That said, there is absolutely nothing wrong with those small market moves, even for a big market team.

 

I'm wondering how big a factor the potential extensions of Devers and Bogaerts is on the other payroll spending.

 

What the Red Sox will do with Bogey, and Raffy is the million dollar question.

[notin]

What the Red Sox will do with Bogey, and Raffy is the million dollar question.

 

More like the $60 million question…

[jacksonianmarch]

The biggest question is when will these fat cats come to the table and figure this s*** out so we can all have a welcome distraction from the shitshow going on around us all?

[mvp 78]

@nypost

 

Ken Rosenthal out at MLB Network due to previous criticism of Rob Manfred

[moonslav59]

I guess we'll have to wait to see how Renfroe performs this season and next. I really hated to lose him. I think that for the upcoming season, the deal will be a loss for us. But over the long term, it should end up being a plus.

 

I wonder if the Sox internal defensive evaluations had Renfroe as significantly worse than the ones we know or our own opinions of his defense. We might tend to be wow’s by all the OF assists, but Fenways’s RF is do large, maybe his short range really convinced them he had to go.

 

Maybe the thought of how important OF defense improvement also led them to view JBJ in a more positive light than most of us view him.

 

If Renfroe ends up with a plus 2-3 WAR, the Sox might still think his value is less than that even going forward, too, so what we might view as a good season by Renfroe, they might see as much worse.

 

I’m just saying this could be a view they have taken. It’s pure speculation on my part.

 

Personally, I thought Renfroe’s arm cancelled out a sizeable chunk of his poor D, and his offense more than made him a good plus player. Maybe they don’t see it that way or the expect Renfroe and JBJ to regress towards their norms in 2922.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I wonder if the Sox internal defensive evaluations had Renfroe as significantly worse than the ones we know or our own opinions of his defense. We might tend to be wow’s by all the OF assists, but Fenways’s RF is do large, maybe his short range really convinced them he had to go.

 

Maybe the thought of how important OF defense improvement also led them to view JBJ in a more positive light than most of us view him.

 

If Renfroe ends up with a plus 2-3 WAR, the Sox might still think his value is less than that even going forward, too, so what we might view as a good season by Renfroe, they might see as much worse.

 

I’m just saying this could be a view they have taken. It’s pure speculation on my part.

 

Personally, I thought Renfroe’s arm cancelled out a sizeable chunk of his poor D, and his offense more than made him a good plus player. Maybe they don’t see it that way or the expect Renfroe and JBJ to regress towards their norms in 2922.

 

Your post reminds of the old assessment He drives in more runs than he lets in...

 

... Renfroe's assists helped negate his bad jumps or lack of range, but does WAR account for the subsequent increased pitch counts from non-catches that can wear down a staff? I always thought such "arm-saving" was an underrated aspect of the consistent D of Betts and Bradley.

[jacksonianmarch]

@nypost

 

Ken Rosenthal out at MLB Network due to previous criticism of Rob Manfred

 

What a f***ing punk. Manfred sucks