A Realistic View at 2021: Part III

[Hugh2]

It's time to quit pussyfooting around. Quit babying Chris Freakin' Sale.

 

Starting pitching for Rays series should line up as Sale, E Rod and Eovaldi, all on 4 days rest. Or do they all need a day off, Cora?

 

The Sox are pitching Sale tomorrow and Erod to follow.

[moonslav59]

It's time to quit pussyfooting around. Quit babying Chris Freakin' Sale.

 

Starting pitching for Rays series should line up as Sale, E Rod and Eovaldi, all on 4 days rest. Or do they all need a day off, Cora?

 

We have 4 naturally scheduled days off coming up, soon.

 

I agree. No extra days off for anyone from here on out. As far as I acn see, we'd only need the 5th starter twice the rest of the way.

 

That might give us the edge we need by using just Sale, ERod, Eovaldi and Houck for almost every remaining game and having Pivetta in the pen, when he returns and is not starting those 2 games.

[moonslav59]

The Sox are pitching Sale tomorrow and Erod to follow.

 

That's what I wanted to hear!

[oldtimer]

Cora was forced to use to minor league pitchers in succession giving up a six run disadvantage. The Sox came back although failed to hit in several key situations when even a fly ball would have helped. Cora probably wouldn't have used Valdez with the lead. He has pretty good movement but his command is shaky because of it. We had a base running error and a defensive misplay at 3rd and one at short that didn't help. It's a likely scenarios when playing so many minor leaguers, and players out of position and having a lot of RPs on the IL. Just have to move on and hope that we get some guys back soon. Kike is rumored for Tuesday.

[moonslav59]

Arroyo should be due back, too.

[moonslav59]

After winning 13 in a row, the Yanks have gone 2-6.

 

The worst I can come up with on the Rays is 2-3 in last 5.

 

OAK is in freefall going 4-10 in their last 14 & 6-14 in last 20.

 

On the flip side...

 

SEA is about to win 5 straight and 6 of 7.

 

TOR has won 4 straight and 7 of 8.

 

BOS has won 7 of 11 and 9 of 14.

 

[Nick]

Possible starters

 

9.06 Sale (Rays)

9.07 E Rod (Rays)

9.08 Eovaldi (Rays)

9.09 off day

9.10 Houck (@White Sox)

9.11 Sale (@White Sox)

9.12 E Rod (@White Sox)

9.13 Eovaldi (@Mariners)

9.14 Seabold (@Mariners)

9.15 Houck (@Mariners)

9.16 off day

9.17 Sale (Orioles)

9.18 E Rod (Orioles)

9.19 Eovaldi (Orioles)

9.20 off day

9.21 Houck (Mets)

9.22 Pivetta (Mets)

9.23 off day

9.24 Sale (Yankees)

9.25 E Rod (Yankees)

9.26 Eovaldi (Yankees)

9.27 off day

9.28 Houck (@Orioles)

9.29 Pivetta (@Orioles)

9.30 E Rod (@Orioles)

10.01 Eovaldi (@Nationals)

10.02 Houck (@Nationals)

10.03 Pivetta (@Nationals)

 

I suppose you try not to use Sale if you can and save him for the wildcard.

Edited September 6, 2021 by Nick

[moonslav59]

Possible starters

 

9.06 Sale (Rays)

9.07 E Rod (Rays)

9.08 Eovaldi (Rays)

9.09 off day

9.10 Houck (@White Sox)

9.11 Sale (@White Sox)

9.12 E Rod (@White Sox)

9.13 Eovaldi (@Mariners)

9.14 Seabold (@Mariners)

9.15 Houck (@Mariners)

9.16 off day

9.17 Sale (Orioles)

9.18 E Rod (Orioles)

9.19 Eovaldi (Orioles)

9.20 off day

9.21 Houck (Mets)

9.22 Pivetta (Mets)

9.23 off day

9.24 Sale (Yankees)

9.25 E Rod (Yankees)

9.26 Eovaldi (Yankees)

9.27 off day

9.28 Houck (@Orioles)

9.29 Pivetta (@Orioles)

9.30 E Rod (@Orioles)

10.01 Eovaldi (@Nationals)

10.02 Houck (@Nationals)

10.03 Pivetta (@Nationals)

 

I suppose you try not to use Sale if you can and save him for the wildcard.

 

Why not use Sale 9/22 and 9/28 and have him ready for the last game of the season, if needed or the WC game on extra rest?

[oldtimer]

Why not use Sale 9/22 and 9/28 and have him ready for the last game of the season, if needed or the WC game on extra rest?

 

Lets see how we do with the Rays, White Sox and Mariners. No easy task. Need to win at least 1/2 of these games and hope other competitors can't do better.

[Nick]

Why not use Sale 9/22 and 9/28 and have him ready for the last game of the season, if needed or the WC game on extra rest?

 

Good Idea Moon. I didn't really have time to think it out.

 

No way he goes 9 days without pitching as I have it.

Edited September 6, 2021 by Nick

[Nick]

9.06 Sale (Rays)

9.07 E Rod (Rays)

9.08 Eovaldi (Rays)

9.09 off day

9.10 Houck (@White Sox)

9.11 Sale (@White Sox)

9.12 E Rod (@White Sox)

9.13 Eovaldi (@Mariners)

9.14 Seabold (@Mariners)

9.15 Houck (@Mariners)

9.16 off day

9.17 Sale (Orioles)

9.18 E Rod (Orioles)

9.19 Eovaldi (Orioles)

9.20 off day

9.21 Houck (Mets)

9.22 Sale (Mets)

9.23 off day

9.24 Pivetta (Yankees)

9.25 E Rod (Yankees)

9.26 Eovaldi (Yankees)

9.27 off day

9.28 Houck (@Orioles)

9.29 Sale (@Orioles)

9.30 Pivetta (@Orioles)

10.01 E Rod (@Nationals)

10.02 Eovaldi (@Nationals)

10.03 Houck (@Nationals)

 

I think pitching Sale on 29th works out better for the rotation of remaining games. Otherwise you need to bring up a pitcher to start one of the games at the end.

Edited September 6, 2021 by Nick

[moonslav59]

23 games left and we only need to start of #5 twice.

 

If we need to, we can pitch...

 

Sale 6 times- twice with extra rest.

ERod 5 times

Eovaldi 5 times

Houck 5 times

 

Other teams have way fewer days off and will be using their 5th and even 6th starters more often.

[Nick]

23 games left and we only need to start of #5 twice.

 

If we need to, we can pitch...

 

Sale 6 times- twice with extra rest.

ERod 5 times

Eovaldi 5 times

Houck 5 times

 

Other teams have way fewer days off and will be using their 5th and even 6th starters more often.

 

No way Sale can pitch 6 games. He won't be available to start the WildCard Game. His 6th start will come on the last day of regular season. Now it's possible we may need to win that game to get into the playoffs.

 

We'll have a better idea after the Yankees series.

Edited September 6, 2021 by Nick

[Nick]

No way Sale can pitch 6 games. He won't be available to start the WildCard Game. His 6th start will come on the last day of regular season. Now it's possible we may need to win that game to get into the playoffs.

 

We'll have a better idea after the Yankees series.

 

Of course whole thing can become moot overnight if COVID strikes.

[Nick]

23 games left and we only need to start of #5 twice.

 

If we need to, we can pitch...

 

Sale 6 times- twice with extra rest.

ERod 5 times

Eovaldi 5 times

Houck 5 times

 

Other teams have way fewer days off and will be using their 5th and even 6th starters more often.

 

I changed my mind....it makes sense to pitch Sale on 9/28 so he can pitch the last game of the season if needed. Otherwise he can get an extra day of rest for the Wild Card game.

 

Good call, Moon.

[moonslav59]

No way Sale can pitch 6 games. He won't be available to start the WildCard Game. His 6th start will come on the last day of regular season. Now it's possible we may need to win that game to get into the playoffs.

 

We'll have a better idea after the Yankees series.

 

If we need to win the last day of the season, I want Sale pitching. If by then, we've clinched a WC slot, Sale sits and starts the WC game on extra rest.

 

What is wrong with this idea?

[moonslav59]

Of course whole thing can become moot overnight if COVID strikes.

 

Such an optimist!

 

What if the Yanks or Rays get hit by COVID?

[moonslav59]

The Sox have played more games than all our competition.

 

2 more than TBR.

3 more than NYY.

4 more than TOR

2 more than SEA.

 

Here's who they play on our 4 days off, this month:

 

THU 9/9 NYY v TOR

 

THU 9/16 NYY @ BAL, TBR v DET

 

MON 9/20 NYY v TEX, TBR v TOR, SEA @ OAK

 

MON 9/27 SEA v OAK

 

FRI 10/1 TOR v BAL

SAT 10/2 TOR v BAL

SUN 10/3 TOR v BAL

*TOR plays 2 @ BAL on 9/11

 

 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I changed my mind....it makes sense to pitch Sale on 9/28 so he can pitch the last game of the season if needed. Otherwise he can get an extra day of rest for the Wild Card game.

 

Good call, Moon.

 

I'm going to watch the last Red Sox-Yankee series closely before naming my starting pitcher for a possible Wild Card at Yankee Stadium... Sale has to show a little more gradual durability before I give him the ball, because Boston will probably need an effective starter to go seven innings to win a one-and-done elimination game on the road.

 

I just might prefer Eovaldi vs. righties Judge/Stanton/DJ, who are all better than lefties Gallo/Rizzo/Odor. Sale and Eovaldi are both prone to give up a couple longballs either way.

[Nick]

For all the talk about how the Red Sox should've acquired Anthony Rizzo at the trade deadline, Dalbec has badly outplayed his more hyped Yankees counterpart. In August, Dalbec hit .339 with seven homers, 21 RBIs, and a 1.205 OPS. Meanwhile, after a hot start in New York, Rizzo has cratered. He hit just .209 with two homers, 10 RBIs, and a .620 OPS in August, undone in part by 11 days on the COVID IL.

 

I am a fan of Dalbec but I too joined in on the demotion bandwagon.

 

Original goal was to hit him 9th and see what developed. As a rookie, he has not done poorly offensively.

 

We're always talking about developing talent internally and get some cheap years out of our players. Well Dalbec fits that mode. Under current rules, he's under team control for five more years and two more years before arbitration eligible.

 

Until Casas comes up and demonstrates that he can hit major league pitching, Dalbec belongs with the parent club. He can even platoon at 1B, maybe DH a little and relieve Devers at 3B. That is unless he becomes an every day player.

[Nick]

Discussion on player move to majors.

 

I've had arguments about when a player should leave college to join NBA when a NBA team tells you that you are being drafted. As an avid college basketball fan, my first inclination is always to say stay another year and develop your game.

 

The counter argument is why not develop your game while you're making money? NBA teams have the best facility, best coaches and best trainers. Coach to player ratio is almost 1 to 1. Wouldn't you develop just as well if not better going up against professionals day in day out, watch and learn even if you're not playing?

 

I was reading about Dalbec and how he is one of hardest working players on the team. Looking to improve his hitting. It's my contention that pitchers can work effectively on their craft in the minors better than the position players.

 

If Dalbec is demoted, he's going up against inferior pitchers. They are not major league pitchers that he's already faced and struggled against. Look at Cordero. He continues to demolish AAA pitching. He's done it twice before. What is he working on exactly? A pitcher can throw a certain pitch throughout the outing and develop that third pitch as an example. His stats may not be pretty but the organization is cognizant of the fact that he's working on a certain pitch. You can't do that as a hitter. You can't tell the opposing pitcher to throw certain pitch that HE'S having trouble with and would like to work on.

 

Sox did the right thing by keeping Dalbec with the parent club. He can work just as well at Fenway on his swings. I'm glad we kept him.

Edited September 6, 2021 by Nick

[jad]

Dalbec is hitting over .300 the past month. Why is there still a question of where he belongs?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

You can't tell the opposing pitcher to throw certain pitch that HE'S having trouble with and would like to work on.

 

Sox did the right thing by keeping Dalbec with the parent club. He can work just as well at Fenway on his swings. I'm glad we kept him.

 

For those who say Duran's bat isn't ready for the big leagues, isn't this the same issue they'd have in demoting him?

[Bellhorn04]

For those who say Duran's bat isn't ready for the big leagues, isn't this the same issue they'd have in demoting him?

 

The issues are different now that we're in September.

 

But if it's earlier in the season, and a rookie is struggling so badly that you can't afford to have him in the lineup any more, you demote him. At least he'll be facing live pitching every day, even if it's not MLB caliber.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

The issues are different now that we're in September.

 

But if it's earlier in the season, and a rookie is struggling so badly that you can't afford to have him in the lineup any more, you demote him. At least he'll be facing live pitching every day, even if it's not MLB caliber.

 

I just want him to practice getting jumps on fly balls every day (I heard he's so fast he can steal first base if he can make contact and hit down on the ball).

[notin]

For those who say Duran's bat isn't ready for the big leagues, isn't this the same issue they'd have in demoting him?

 

I kept hearing he’d be the fourth outfielder. If he’s the fourth OF, demote him. Unless you think that’s his ceiling…

[Maxbialystock]

If we need to win the last day of the season, I want Sale pitching. If by then, we've clinched a WC slot, Sale sits and starts the WC game on extra rest.

 

What is wrong with this idea?

 

Absolutely nothing. Anyone who would not start Sale when the postseason is at stake is ignorant.

 

The bigger issue right now, Labor Day, is fielding a competitive team. With Pivetta covid'd, the rotation is now 4, which could be worse since Pivetta was the worst of the 5. Nevertheless, one can make a good argument that yesterday's game was winnable with Pivetta starting because Crawford gave up 5 runs in the first 2 innings.

 

The bullpen and the lineup are similarly afflicted, and the Rays are coming to town for 3 big ones. Where is Thomas Paine when we need him?

[Maxbialystock]

I kept hearing he’d be the fourth outfielder. If he’s the fourth OF, demote him. Unless you think that’s his ceiling…

 

You have tinnitus because I've heard no such thing. Even assuming Kike, when he returns, goes to 2b instead of CF, Cora will continue to use JDM/Schwarber in LF and DH and Dalbec at 1b.

[Maxbialystock]

Discussion on player move to majors.

 

I've had arguments about when a player should leave college to join NBA when a NBA team tells you that you are being drafted. As an avid college basketball fan, my first inclination is always to say stay another year and develop your game.

 

The counter argument is why not develop your game while you're making money? NBA teams have the best facility, best coaches and best trainers. Coach to player ratio is almost 1 to 1. Wouldn't you develop just as well if not better going up against professionals day in day out, watch and learn even if you're not playing?

 

I was reading about Dalbec and how he is one of hardest working players on the team. Looking to improve his hitting. It's my contention that pitchers can work effectively on their craft in the minors better than the position players.

 

If Dalbec is demoted, he's going up against inferior pitchers. They are not major league pitchers that he's already faced and struggled against. Look at Cordero. He continues to demolish AAA pitching. He's done it twice before. What is he working on exactly? A pitcher can throw a certain pitch throughout the outing and develop that third pitch as an example. His stats may not be pretty but the organization is cognizant of the fact that he's working on a certain pitch. You can't do that as a hitter. You can't tell the opposing pitcher to throw certain pitch that HE'S having trouble with and would like to work on.

 

Sox did the right thing by keeping Dalbec with the parent club. He can work just as well at Fenway on his swings. I'm glad we kept him.

 

Two very different sports. Baseball has an elaborate apprenticeship system which basketball doesn't have or, for that matter, need. The very best basketballers are ready for the NBA after high school, and the only reason why the NBA doesn't draft high school seniors is that in the past now and then they drafted--even as high as the #1 selection--lemons. Thus, these days it's rare when the NBA drafts anyone over age 22, whereas MLB would label a 22 year old on a MLB team (and not just in September) as a phenom.

 

Because MLB no longer wants to underwrite minor league teams to the degree they have in the past, AA and AAA players these days apparently aren't as ready for MLB as they were 5 years ago.

 

Nevertheless, there is absolutely no substitute for a pitcher or a hitter to hone his skills adequately by simply practicin' and practicin'. You gotta play in the real games against good pitchers who want to get you out or good hitters who want to knock you out.

 

Right now Dalbec is getting into games, which will definitely help him, and Duran is not, which is bad for him.

[notin]

You have tinnitus because I've heard no such thing. Even assuming Kike, when he returns, goes to 2b instead of CF, Cora will continue to use JDM/Schwarber in LF and DH and Dalbec at 1b.

 

Oh it has been put out here, tinnitus or not. The primary reason that tinnitus is not a factor is this is a visual medium, not an auditory one