A Realistic View at 2021: Part III

[moonslav59]

The trade deadline has come and gone. We added Schwarber and scraps. His best position is LF or DH, and that was not our highest need areas, in fact, it might have been our lowest need area. Don't get me wrong, I like the trade, especially if he can play 1B.

 

We did not trade away much of our farm or meaningful vets.

 

I'll leave the talk about 2022 for later, but here is how I see our 26 man roster shaping up, when all is healthy.

 

1. Kike CF

2. Verdugo LF

3. Bogey SS

4. JD DH

5. Devers 3B

6. Schwarber 1B

7. Renfroe RF

8. Arroyo 2B

9. Vazquez C

 

10-13 Bench (4):

Plawecki

Duran

Marwin

Dalbec

 

14-18 SP'ers (5):

Eovaldi

Sale

ERod

Pivetta

Perez

 

19-26 RP'ers (8):

Barnes

Ottavino

Whitlock

Houck

Taylor

DHern

Sawamura

Valdez (Richards DFA?)

 

(DFA: Santana & Andriese)

 

Go SOX!

 

Link to Part II

 

https://www.talksox.com/forum/threads/20000-A-Realistic-View-at-2021-Part-II

Edited July 30, 2021 by moonslav59

[Nick]

I don't understand the idea of not pitching Houck for 8-9 days. Why is he missing his turn? Better yet, why can't he stay on the roster and pitch multiple innings? Edited July 30, 2021 by Nick

[moonslav59]

I don't understand the idea of not pitching Houck for 8-9 days. Why is he missing his turn? Better yet, why can't he stay on the roster and pitch multiple innings?

 

It's like we are clinging to hopes on some of our starters that are fading quickly or already extinguished.

 

I get the idea of keeping as many options on teh table for as long as possible, but the "possible time" is here and now.

 

Our rotation is in shambles. There is no sugar coating it. Shambles.

 

Eovaldi is the only sure bet.

 

I'm thrilled and excited about Sale's return, but all year I've said we shouldn't count on anything from him. That has not changed.

 

ERod was showing good signs for 6 straight starts, then the head ache and implosion. Now, those hopes are waining.

 

Pivetta seems to be the best hope of the next 3, but he's been a mess, too.

 

Perez was doing a hell of a job, but his recent sample size of crap is no longer small. He's a mess.

 

Richards is our poster boy for "Shambles." I wouldn't blink if we DFA'd him.

 

I love Houck in the pen, but the rotation takes precedent.

 

I had hopes when they said they were stretching out Whitlock, but that ain't happening.

 

We are stuck with what we got, so yes, why not use Houck instead of Richards?

 

Our pen is still very good without Houck, and Sawamura should be back, soon, right?

Edited July 31, 2021 by moonslav59

[Nick]

I believe Sawamura was activated for tonight's game.

[a700hitter]

This starting staff is starting to shape up like the 2011 staff that collapsed in September. I think that is where they are heading, but it will happen a month earlier so it will not hurt as much. I guess we can hope that Chris Sale returns as 2017 Chris Sale. But is that realistic?

[Swiharts Ghost]

Sale will give this team a ton of swag back that’s a fact .Boogey man don’t give no f***s .

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

This starting staff is starting to shape up like the 2011 staff that collapsed in September. I think that is where they are heading, but it will happen a month earlier so it will not hurt as much. I guess we can hope that Chris Sale returns as 2017 Chris Sale. But is that realistic?

 

I've read that many pitchers who have returned from TJ surgery actually found an increase in their velocity. I know that was the case for Eovaldi.

[iortiz]

This starting staff is starting to shape up like the 2011 staff that collapsed in September. I think that is where they are heading, but it will happen a month earlier so it will not hurt as much. I guess we can hope that Chris Sale returns as 2017 Chris Sale. But is that realistic?

If Sale is not at least 80% vintage Sale we are done.

 

80% Sale

Eovaldi

Houck

Pivetta/Rodriguez

 

This is a rotation that can keep us in most games IMHO.

 

Our real strength is at pen. If these guys keep us in games through five innings (I think most of the times have happened this season), we have a legit shot in POs.

 

I give Bloom and Cora the benefit of the doubt. Thus far they have made a tremendous job with a subpar team.

[oldtimer]

The trade deadline has come and gone. We added Schwarber and scraps. His best position is LF or DH, and that was not our highest need areas, in fact, it might have been our lowest need area. Don't get me wrong, I like the trade, especially if he can play 1B.

 

We did not trade away much of our farm or meaningful vets.

 

I'll leave the talk about 2022 for later, but here is how I see our 26 man roster shaping up, when all is healthy.

 

1. Kike CF

2. Verdugo LF

3. Bogey SS

4. JD DH

5. Devers 3B

6. Schwarber 1B

7. Renfroe RF

8. Arroyo 2B

9. Vazquez C

 

10-13 Bench (4):

Plawecki

Duran

Marwin

Dalbec

 

14-18 SP'ers (5):

Eovaldi

Sale

ERod

Pivetta

Perez

 

19-26 RP'ers (8):

Barnes

Ottavino

Whitlock

Houck

Taylor

DHern

Sawamura

Valdez (Richards DFA?)

 

(DFA: Santana & Andriese)

 

Go SOX!

 

Link to Part II

 

https://www.talksox.com/forum/threads/20000-A-Realistic-View-at-2021-Part-II

 

Do you know where we are at this point against the CBT. We lost Chavis but picked up Schwaber and Robles? I am hoping we stayed below the limit.

[oldtimer]

It's like we are clinging to hopes on some of our starters that are fading quickly or already extinguished.

 

I get the idea of keeping as many options on teh table for as long as possible, but the "possible time" is here and now.

 

Our rotation is in shambles. There is no sugar coating it. Shambles.

 

Eovaldi is the only sure bet.

 

I'm thrilled and excited about Sale's return, but all year I've said we shouldn't count on anything from him. That has not changed.

 

ERod was showing good signs for 6 straight starts, then the head ache and implosion. Now, those hopes are waining.

 

Pivetta seems to be the best hope of the next 3, but he's been a mess, too.

 

Perez was doing a hell of a job, but his recent sample size of crap is no longer small. He's a mess.

 

Richards is our poster boy for "Shambles." I wouldn't blink if we DFA'd him.

 

I love Houck in the pen, but the rotation takes precedent.

 

I had hopes when they said they were stretching out Whitlock, but that ain't happening.

 

We are stuck with what we got, so yes, why not use Houck instead of Richards?

 

Our pen is still very good without Houck, and Sawamura should be back, soon, right?

 

I agree with your assessment of our starting pitching. It puts a lot of pressure on Eovaldi. If we face top level pitching when he starts, we could be held down in runs. Notice that JDM is struggling now and both Arroyo and Schwaber are around two weeks away, maybe more. I really wonder if Schwaber can be effective at 1st. Maybe he can give JDM a rest. I hope there is more said about our lack of performance in the trade market. We did very little to help ourselves. What were the reasons we didn't compete?

[moonslav59]

Do you know where we are at this point against the CBT. We lost Chavis but picked up Schwaber and Robles? I am hoping we stayed below the limit.

 

I think we are safely under.

[moonslav59]

I agree with your assessment of our starting pitching. It puts a lot of pressure on Eovaldi. If we face top level pitching when he starts, we could be held down in runs. Notice that JDM is struggling now and both Arroyo and Schwaber are around two weeks away, maybe more. I really wonder if Schwaber can be effective at 1st. Maybe he can give JDM a rest. I hope there is more said about our lack of performance in the trade market. We did very little to help ourselves. What were the reasons we didn't compete?

 

The cost was too high.

[RedSoxNC84]

Can Schwarber pitch?

[Kman]

Can Schwarber pitch?

 

I dunno about him but I think Plawecki can!

[moonslav59]

Can Schwarber pitch?

 

I’ll settle for 1B without pulling a hammy.

[vegasbob]

The trade deadline has come and gone. We added Schwarber and scraps. His best position is LF or DH, and that was not our highest need areas, in fact, it might have been our lowest need area. Don't get me wrong, I like the trade, especially if he can play 1B.

 

We did not trade away much of our farm or meaningful vets.

 

I'll leave the talk about 2022 for later, but here is how I see our 26 man roster shaping up, when all is healthy.

 

1. Kike CF

2. Verdugo LF

3. Bogey SS

4. JD DH

5. Devers 3B

6. Schwarber 1B

7. Renfroe RF

8. Arroyo 2B

9. Vazquez C

 

10-13 Bench (4):

Plawecki

Duran

Marwin

Dalbec

 

14-18 SP'ers (5):

Eovaldi

Sale

ERod

Pivetta

Perez

 

19-26 RP'ers (8):

Barnes

Ottavino

Whitlock

Houck

Taylor

DHern

Sawamura

Valdez (Richards DFA?)

 

(DFA: Santana & Andriese)

 

Go SOX!

 

Link to Part II

 

https://www.talksox.com/forum/threads/20000-A-Realistic-View-at-2021-Part-II

 

Only problem Moon is that you could not move parts of that roster to the field to play the game tomorrow night in the Trop. Don't play on paper, play the actual guys who can go .

[vegasbob]

The cost was too high.

 

Based on his own comments, I believe Bloom was told to respect the Lux Tax limits since this roster is not strong enough to carry them far beyond early October

[Nick]

Bloom, former Rays guy thinks our starting pitching is solid?

 

“We feel really good about that group,” Bloom said about the starting rotation before Friday’s game. “They’ve helped get us where we’ve gotten. And we’re about to get deeper and about to add a lot more impact.”

 

Boston ranks 20th in the majors in starter ERA (4.57). That's with good April and May.

 

Manager Alex Cora said he’s not concerned about the starting pitching.

Edited July 31, 2021 by Nick

[Nick]

IP H R ER BB K HR Score

4.0 7 6 6 1 3 3 4-7 M Perez

3.1 7 6 6 4 8 0 1-13 E Rod

4.0 2 1 1 1 7 0 4- 1 T Houck

4.0 8 4 4 1 2 2 1-4 G Richards

4.2 6 4 4 2 3 1 5-4 N Pivetta

6.0 6 3 3 2 6 1 5-4 M Perez

7.2 7 2 2 0 8 0 3-4 N Eovaldi

 

And we shouldn't worry about our starting pitching?

Edited July 31, 2021 by Nick

[notin]

IP H R ER BB K HR Score

4.0 7 6 6 1 3 3 4-7 M Perez

3.1 7 6 6 4 8 0 1-13 E Rod

4.0 2 1 1 1 7 0 4- 1 T Houck

4.0 8 4 4 1 2 2 1-4 G Richards

4.2 6 4 4 2 3 1 5-4 N Pivetta

6.0 6 3 3 2 6 1 5-4 M Perez

7.2 7 2 2 0 8 0 3-4 N Eovaldi

 

And we shouldn't worry about our starting pitching?

 

Reportedly Bloom was in talks about Scherzer and Berrios all week. Apparently he’s aware. What did you expect him to say in the press? “Starting pitching? Oh, dude, we are so f***ed there!”

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Reportedly Bloom was in talks about Scherzer and Berrios all week. Apparently he’s aware. What did you expect him to say in the press? “Starting pitching? Oh, dude, we are so f***ed there!”

 

Bloom doesn't speak in cliches. He knows that two in the bush leagues are better than nine when you're only playing seven.

[Yaz Fan Since 67]

I don't understand the idea of not pitching Houck for 8-9 days. Why is he missing his turn? Better yet, why can't he stay on the roster and pitch multiple innings?

 

Yeah I had asked this question earlier and not sure I got a response. Why don't they just plug Houck into the rotation? I'm also glad they did not gut the farm for quick fixes, stick with the plan and what happens this fall is a bonus.

 

 

Question: What are the chances that JD opts out? In a weird way is it good that he has regressed instead of having a monster season in that regard? Or is JD's reputation kind of set in stone?

[Hugh2]

Houck is going to start here and there, but he falls apart 2nd time through a lineup. You can’t count on his to consistently start every 5 days.

 

He’s fine in there for now, give some guys some rest, and the Sox are playing a ton of heavy RHH lineups. But don’t expect him to go 7.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Reportedly Bloom was in talks about Scherzer and Berrios all week. Apparently he’s aware. What did you expect him to say in the press? “Starting pitching? Oh, dude, we are so f***ed there!”

 

I'm a realist with the starting rotation situation. Bloom tried to upgrade with Scherzer and Berrios, but look at what the Dodgers and Blue Jays traded away. There were no other available starters worth acquiring. Maybe Kyle Gibson but his last two starts were disasters.....

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Houck is going to start here and there, but he falls apart 2nd time through a lineup. You can’t count on his to consistently start every 5 days.

 

He’s fine in there for now, give some guys some rest, and the Sox are playing a ton of heavy RHH lineups. But don’t expect him to go 7.

 

The Red Sox need to save Whitlock for Houck's games.

 

The Red Sox postseason rotation:

1. Eovaldi

2. Sale

3. Houck followed by Whitlock

4. E-Rod

[Fan_since_Boggs]

What are the chances that JD opts out?

 

The odds increase if the NL switches to the DH, and many people believe that will happen. I think the odds are a little better than 50%? It depends. While he can probably get a multi-year offer, he won't be able to get 20 mil per year and he may decide that 20 mil for one year is too much to pass up, believing he can enter free agency in 2022.

 

If JD doesn't opt out, I think the Red Sox should shave a little money off the 20 mil and trade JD while signing Kyle S. to a long term deal. Kyle S. should be the next Red Sox DH.

[Nick]

Houck is going to start here and there, but he falls apart 2nd time through a lineup. You can’t count on his to consistently start every 5 days.

 

He’s fine in there for now, give some guys some rest, and the Sox are playing a ton of heavy RHH lineups. But don’t expect him to go 7.

 

Failing second time through the lineup is better than failing in the first inning as many of our starters are doing......I get your point.

 

I'm being overly negative. Not so much about not getting a starter but not sure what the clear game plan is going forward.

 

What's the purpose of having Sale pitch ONE MORE EXHIBITION GAME after today? That makes absolutely no sense. Wasting his bullets.

[moonslav59]

Houck is going to start here and there, but he falls apart 2nd time through a lineup. You can’t count on his to consistently start every 5 days.

 

What are you basing this opinion on?

 

A 60 PA against sample size, where opponents hit .735 off him? That's not all that bad, and he does much better the third time through, so what about that?

 

.377 first time (63 PAs)

.735 second time (60 PAs)

.452 third time (14 PAs)

 

If you add the second time to the third time, he's under .700.

 

Let's see him start a few more times, before we rush to judgments.

 

Plus, we need Whitlock in Richards and Perez starts more.

[moonslav59]

Failing second time through the lineup is better than failing in the first inning as many of our starters are doing......I get your point.

 

I'm being overly negative. Not so much about not getting a starter but not sure what the clear game plan is going forward.

 

What's the purpose of having Sale pitch ONE MORE EXHIBITION GAME after today? That makes absolutely no sense. Wasting his bullets.

 

I'd bring Sale up, now, too.

[Bellhorn04]

Plus, we need Whitlock in Richards and Perez starts more.

 

I don't know, you use Whitlock in games you can win. Richards and Perez negate that premise LOL