A Realistic View at 2021: Part I

[moonslav59]

But if we hadn't traded him, we still wouldn't have paid him. So trading him didn't save a nickel this year.

 

I get that, but we did not have to pay $16M.

 

The Dodgers did not either, but they got no IP from him.

 

His "opt out" helped us- here or not, but that doesn't mean the deal doesn't look better.

 

Just like losing only 60 games from Betts, instead of 150+.

[Bellhorn04]

I get that, but we did not have to pay $16M.

 

The Dodgers did not either, but they got no IP from him.

 

His "opt out" helped us- here or not, but that doesn't mean the deal doesn't look better.

 

Just like losing only 60 games from Betts, instead of 150+.

 

What you're talking about are the COVID-19 "benefits".

[dgalehouse]

I get that, but we did not have to pay $16M.

 

The Dodgers did not either, but they got no IP from him.

 

His "opt out" helped us- here or not, but that doesn't mean the deal doesn't look better.

 

Just like losing only 60 games from Betts, instead of 150+.

 

Losing only 60 games from Mookie was enough to kill any chances we might have had.

[moonslav59]

What you're talking about are the COVID-19 "benefits".

 

Call it that, if you wish.

[moonslav59]

Losing only 60 games from Mookie was enough to kill any chances we might have had.

 

Skinny chance.

 

Improved our longer term chances immensely.

[Bellhorn04]

Call it that, if you wish.

 

It's just the facts.

 

Yes, we saved some money on Price's contract because he opted out because of COVID-19.

 

(At the same time, we had to pay E-Rod not to play because of COVID-19.)

 

In reality all Price's opt-out did was reduce the team's losses for the year by a fraction.

[moonslav59]

It's just the facts.

 

Yes, we saved some money on Price's contract because he opted out because of COVID-19.

 

(At the same time, we had to pay E-Rod not to play because of COVID-19.)

 

In reality all Price's opt-out did was reduce the team's losses for the year by a fraction.

 

The reason we paid less does not change the fact that the trade looks better, now.

[Bellhorn04]

The reason we paid less does not change the fact that the trade looks better, now.

 

It might look better to you. But COVID-19 seems like the strangest reason ever for a trade to look better.

 

The Dodgers may be the ones who benefited the most from COVID-19, in that it made Mookie more open to taking their extension offer.

[jad]

It might look better to you. But COVID-19 seems like the strangest reason ever for a trade to look better.

 

The Dodgers may be the ones who benefited the most from COVID-19, in that it made Mookie more open to taking their extension offer.

 

Plus, of course, the fact that LAD has a shot at the WS this year, while John Henry celebrates not having to pay the luxury tax.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

It might look better to you. But COVID-19 seems like the strangest reason ever for a trade to look better.

 

The Dodgers may be the ones who benefited the most from COVID-19, in that it made Mookie more open to taking their extension offer.

 

We think... Or maybe he was planning all along to ultimately transfer to California, ready to sign for a figure in between what Boston offered and what his agents' countered with.

[Bellhorn04]

We think... Or maybe he was planning all along to ultimately transfer to California, ready to sign for a figure in between what Boston offered and what his agents' countered with.

 

It is pretty interesting that the number ended up exactly halfway between our reported offer and the reported counter-offer.

[moonslav59]

It might look better to you. But COVID-19 seems like the strangest reason ever for a trade to look better.

 

The Dodgers may be the ones who benefited the most from COVID-19, in that it made Mookie more open to taking their extension offer.

 

Maybe, but they also gave up Verdugo, Downs and Wong for 60 games of Betts not 150+ AND, according to many here, they missed out on 1 year of Price at the bargain rate of "just" $16M.

 

If that was indeed a "bargain," they lost on the COVID influence.

[Bellhorn04]

Maybe, but they also gave up Verdugo, Downs and Wong for 60 games of Betts not 150+ AND, according to many here, they missed out on 1 year of Price at the bargain rate of "just" $16M.

 

And on the other hand, they only had to pay Mookie for 60 games, so instead of paying him 27 million they're paying him 10 million. BUT they have him for the playoffs. So it was exactly like getting him in a deadline deal...

 

Also, I don't think anyone has suggested Price would be a bargain at 16 million. All I've suggested is that it would be close to what he could get on the market.

[oldtimer]

And on the other hand, they only had to pay Mookie for 60 games, so instead of paying him 27 million they're paying him 10 million. BUT they have him for the playoffs. So it was exactly like getting him in a deadline deal...

 

Also, I don't think anyone has suggested Price would be a bargain at 16 million. All I've suggested is that it would be close to what he could get on the market.

 

We wouldn't have made the playoffs with Mookie and we probably couldn't have resigned him. We got Verdugo, Downs and Wong and lost have of Price's overhanging contract which cost us or the Dodgers anything this year. The Dodgers got Mookie for 60 games, the playoffs and were able to sign him although for a costly and risky contract. Both the Sox and the Dodgers have reasons to be happy and that is what a good trade should engender.

[Bellhorn04]

We wouldn't have made the playoffs with Mookie and we probably couldn't have resigned him. We got Verdugo, Downs and Wong and lost have of Price's overhanging contract which cost us or the Dodgers anything this year. The Dodgers got Mookie for 60 games, the playoffs and were able to sign him although for a costly and risky contract. Both the Sox and the Dodgers have reasons to be happy and that is what a good trade should engender.

 

I agree. I think Bloom did very well with what he got.

[dgalehouse]

I would think that the Dodgers having Mookie on board , enhanced their chances of re - signing him. What we got back is okay , but in no way comparable to Betts.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Both the Sox and the Dodgers have reasons to be happy and that is what a good trade should engender.

 

I'd qualify that with both the Sox and Dodgers franchises, but not necessarily the fans -- especially not Boston's. Even if Mookie beats the Yankees in the World Series, it will still be bittersweet for Red Sox fans seeing him celebrate in Dodger blue...

[notin]

I'd qualify that with both the Sox and Dodgers franchises, but not necessarily the fans -- especially not Boston's. Even if Mookie beats the Yankees in the World Series, it will still be bittersweet for Red Sox fans seeing him celebrate in Dodger blue...

 

No. Watching any player celebrate over beating the Yankees is sweet, regardless of the uniform...

[Nick]

I would think that the Dodgers having Mookie on board , enhanced their chances of re - signing him. What we got back is okay , but in no way comparable to Betts.

 

Your statement makes absolutely no sense.

 

Red Sox gave up one year of service from Betts (which later turned out to be 60 game season) for perhaps 3 future major leaguers. Do you really think we lost that trade?

[dgalehouse]

Your statement makes absolutely no sense.

 

Red Sox gave up one year of service from Betts (which later turned out to be 60 game season) for perhaps 3 future major leaguers. Do you really think we lost that trade?

 

We gave up a future Hall of Famer . And with that virtually any chance of re-signing him . I do hope that our 3 " future major leaguers " give us some value. I may not make any sense to you , but I really hate finishing in the A.L. East basement. That makes no sense to me.

[notin]

We gave up a future Hall of Famer . And with that virtually any chance of re-signing him . I do hope that our 3 " future major leaguers " give us some value. I may not make any sense to you , but I really hate finishing in the A.L. East basement. That makes no sense to me.

 

We have no chance of re-signing him since Henry had mandated resetting the tax and there was no practical way to get under it without moving Betts. Unless you wanted to move Bogaerts instead, but that would have been unwise given that he clearly wanted to be in Boston.

 

The only chance the Sox had to bring Mookie back was to trade him away, reset, and then hope he reached free agency...

[moonslav59]

And on the other hand, they only had to pay Mookie for 60 games, so instead of paying him 27 million they're paying him 10 million. BUT they have him for the playoffs. So it was exactly like getting him in a deadline deal...

 

Also, I don't think anyone has suggested Price would be a bargain at 16 million. All I've suggested is that it would be close to what he could get on the market.

 

Some were furious with his inclusion in the deal, so I thought it was safe to assume they felt the Dodgers were getting a bargain at "just" $16M a year.

[Bellhorn04]

Some were furious with his inclusion in the deal, so I thought it was safe to assume they felt the Dodgers were getting a bargain at "just" $16M a year.

 

Furious, really? I honestly don't remember that.

[notin]

We gave up a future Hall of Famer . And with that virtually any chance of re-signing him . I do hope that our 3 " future major leaguers " give us some value. I may not make any sense to you , but I really hate finishing in the A.L. East basement. That makes no sense to me.

 

The Sox were doomed for a bad season when they lost Sale and Rodriguez for the year. Would finishing 4th in the AL East with Mookie and then watching him go for a draft pick be any better?

[moonslav59]

Furious, really? I honestly don't remember that.

 

Maybe some hyperbole, there, but several thought including Price in the deal and paying $16M was bad for us and good for LA.

 

Here are some quotes from way back when the trade was made:

 

Then keep Price. He’s worth a lot to the Sox if they want to be competitive.

Hint: they don’t want to be.- MVP

 

Am I the only one who thinks this is an awful trade? We are still on the hook for half of Price's contract. I'd rather keep price than paying half of his contract to go elsewhere.-redsoxrules

 

I was more confident of Price and Sale rebounding than I am of the prospects for the team after this trade. They just waved the white flag of surrender before playing a single game.- 700 the guy who hoped Price would not opt out.)

 

There were more, but I'm tired of looking back.

[moonslav59]

The trade simulator accepted this:

 

Eovaldi & JD

to LAA

Upton (salary dump), Barria and Mayers

 

Upton is owed $53M/2 and counts for $21M/yr on the tax line.

 

JD is owed $39M/2 and Eovldi $34M/2 and their tax numbers are $22M/yr and $17M/yr ($49M total)

 

LAA pays $20M more than Upton costs, but we save $28M on taxes. We could even pay some cash to offset it by more.

 

I'm not sure LA trades two nice and young arms for two players they may not even want, but I'm sure they love to dump Upton and get something worthwhile.

 

 

It also accepted Eovaldi for Odor and Taveras (pre arb OF'er) from the Rangers.

 

We save $9M on the lux tax line, but the actual money is only $4.7M more a year for TX. Odor is near useless to them.

 

We fill our CF slot (mixed defensive metrics), take a flyer on Odor at 2B and add $9M a year to our tax budget.

Edited October 8, 2020 by moonslav59

[notin]

The trade simulator accepted this:

 

Eovaldi & JD

to LAA

Upton (salary dump), Barria and Mayers

 

Upton is owed $53M/2 and counts for $21M/yr on the tax line.

 

JD is owed $39M/2 and Eovldi $34M/2 and their tax numbers are $22M/yr and $17M/yr ($49M total)

 

LAA pays $20M more than Upton costs, but we save $28M on taxes. We could even pay some cash to offset it by more.

 

I'm not sure LA trades two nice and young arms for two players they may not even want, but I'm sure they love to dump Upton and get something worthwhile.

 

 

It also accepted Eovaldi for Odor and Taveras (pre arb OF'er) from the Rangers.

 

We save $9M on the lux tax line, but the actual money is only $4.7M more a year for TX. Odor is near useless to them.

 

We fill our CF slot (mixed defensive metrics), take a flyer on Odor at 2B and add $9M a year to our tax budget.

 

I'd just assume have Eovaldi and Martinez...

[Nick]

We gave up a future Hall of Famer . And with that virtually any chance of re-signing him . I do hope that our 3 " future major leaguers " give us some value. I may not make any sense to you , but I really hate finishing in the A.L. East basement. That makes no sense to me.

 

 

Betts was gone when he refused our last offer.....how much did you want to pay him?

[moonslav59]

I'd just assume have Eovaldi and Martinez...

 

Think of what we get for $28M on the tax budget ($14M x 2 yrs).

 

Barria is just 24, pre-arb and had a 1.113 WHIP, this year.

 

Mayers may be a flash, but he had a nice season at 0.900 WHIP and a 2.10 ERA (12.9K/9 seems out of the blue)

 

 

[moonslav59]

I'd just assume have Eovaldi and Martinez...

 

Any thoughts on Taveras?