A Realistic View at 2021: Part I

[harmony]

We've been one of the biggest spending teams in MLB the last 5, 10 or 20 years. We've led the league in spending several times in the past 5-7 years.

In the past nine seasons the Red Sox have four AL East championships (and two World Series titles), four last-place finishes and one third-place finish.

 

High spending does not guarantee sustained success.

Edited October 6, 2020 by harmony

[jacksonianmarch]

Spending for the sake of spending got them in this situation.

[mvp 78]

Spending for the sake of spending got them in this situation.

 

What situation? They could have kept Betts and reset the cap later on. They just didn't deem Betts worthy of his payday. They said they were willing to pay him 300M. If he said yes, would they just have said "whoops, sorry, we didn't really mean it?"

[mvp 78]

In the past nine seasons the Red Sox have four AL East championships (and two World Series titles), four last-place finishes and one third-place finish.

 

High spending does not guarantee sustained success.

 

They have had sustained success for the past 20 years and have spent a s*** ton. It's not like they've all of a sudden become a team that has no shot to make the playoffs like the Mariners. If Sale and ERod come back healthy and they sign Bauer, this team is competing with the Yanks and Rays for the division.

[notin]

I know it's crazy, but given that the RS have almost unlimited spending capacity, how about improving the team by signing good players? and keeping the good players you have? Then again, since I live near Portland, I'm thrilled that they get rid of dead-wood like Betts in order to 'improve the farm' and give us that double-A ball we deserve.

 

Thy don't have unlimted capacity and they don't "print money" and they do need those AA players because those guys help make the heavy spending possible. Keeping Betts would have been a lot more likely if the Sox had more players making league minimum and fewer players already making in excess of $15mill per season.

 

So while none of Hudson Potts, Connor Wong and Jeter Downs will ever be the next Mookie, they at least do make it more likely the Sox will be able to retain Rafael Devers in the future ...

[jacksonianmarch]

Sale isn’t gonna be back til closer to the ASB and likely won’t be at his best until September. Also, his velo was fading before he hurt his elbow. TJS doesn’t fix a shoulder issue

[Nick]

Sale isn’t gonna be back til closer to the ASB and likely won’t be at his best until September. Also, his velo was fading before he hurt his elbow. TJS doesn’t fix a shoulder issue

 

tTe truth teller!

 

I always appreciate your medical input.

 

I'm just enjoying watching Bloom put a contender together. Franchise built for sustaining playoff worthy teams year end year out. I'm willing to give him until 2022 to see significant improvements. Sale comes back when he comes back.

 

I like what the Dodgers are doing except for losing its final game every year.

 

And finally, we've done pretty well since 2004, no? (not directed at you Jackson....)

Edited October 6, 2020 by Nick

[Nick]

I'm just curious how long have all of you been a Sox fan?

 

I've been a Sox fan since 1967 when I was 11 years old. I came here from Japan, I didn't speak English but I loved baseball. With passing of Bob Gibson, it reminded me that I could have easily been a Cardinals fan. I just think as a little boy, "Red Sox" made sense even with the language barrier.

 

So....about 52 seasons?

 

ps...for the younger fans, back then it was NBC and game of the week for most of the country... mlb.com subscription was not available...

Edited October 6, 2020 by Nick

[notin]

I'm just curious how long have all of you been a Sox fan?

 

I've been a Sox fan since 1967 when I was 11 years old. I came here from Japan, I didn't speak English but I loved baseball. With passing of Bob Gibson, it reminded me that I could have easily been a Cardinals fan. I just think as a little boy, "Red Sox" made sense even with the language barrier.

 

So....about 52 seasons?

 

ps...for the younger fans, back then it was NBC and game of the week for most of the country... mlb.com subscription was not available...

 

I remember when we had Monday Night Baseball on ABC with several of the same crew that did Monday Night Football, except no Howard Cosell (thankfully)...

[mvp 78]

I'm just curious how long have all of you been a Sox fan?

 

I've been a Sox fan since 1967 when I was 11 years old. I came here from Japan, I didn't speak English but I loved baseball. With passing of Bob Gibson, it reminded me that I could have easily been a Cardinals fan. I just think as a little boy, "Red Sox" made sense even with the language barrier.

 

So....about 52 seasons?

 

ps...for the younger fans, back then it was NBC and game of the week for most of the country... mlb.com subscription was not available...

 

Born into it, but one of my first Sox related memories was Yaz's last game.

[Bellhorn04]

I'm just curious how long have all of you been a Sox fan?

 

I've been a Sox fan since 1967 when I was 11 years old. I came here from Japan, I didn't speak English but I loved baseball. With passing of Bob Gibson, it reminded me that I could have easily been a Cardinals fan. I just think as a little boy, "Red Sox" made sense even with the language barrier.

 

So....about 52 seasons?

 

My numbers are very close to yours. I was born in January, 1956, became a serious Red Sox fan in 1969 when I was 13 and started listening to the games on the radio.

[Bellhorn04]

Spending for the sake of spending got them in this situation.

 

Yes and no.

 

Dead money for 2021:

Price 16 (also 2022)

Pedroia 13.75 (final year)

 

Worrisome money for 2021:

Sale 25.6

JDM 22

Eovaldi 17

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

What situation? They could have kept Betts and reset the cap later on. They just didn't deem Betts worthy of his payday. They said they were willing to pay him 300M. If he said yes, would they just have said "whoops, sorry, we didn't really mean it?"

 

Who really cares if Mookie is a HOFer; he's so short!

[Thunder]

I'm just curious how long have all of you been a Sox fan?

 

I've been a Sox fan since 1967 when I was 11 years old. I came here from Japan, I didn't speak English but I loved baseball. With passing of Bob Gibson, it reminded me that I could have easily been a Cardinals fan. I just think as a little boy, "Red Sox" made sense even with the language barrier.

 

So....about 52 seasons?

 

ps...for the younger fans, back then it was NBC and game of the week for most of the country... mlb.com subscription was not available...

 

Born into it, but I'm only 21 (for 10 more days). First stuff I remember is bits and pieces of the 2004 ALCS. I remember talking about it in kindergarten

[Thunder]

They have had sustained success for the past 20 years and have spent a s*** ton. It's not like they've all of a sudden become a team that has no shot to make the playoffs like the Mariners. If Sale and ERod come back healthy and they sign Bauer, this team is competing with the Yanks and Rays for the division.

 

Yep. I'm with you 100%. In mid-August, I thought a full rebuild was necessary, but I like the way we looked over the last month of the season. That scenario is no certainty. I don't think Sale will be the same guy, and I really don't know what to expect out of ERod. I personally think this offseason is one of the most important we've ever had, at least in my lifetime

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Yes and no.

 

Dead money for 2021:

Price 16 (also 2022)

Pedroia 13.75 (final year)

 

Worrisome money for 2021:

Sale 25.6

JDM 22

Eovaldi 17

 

People can argue about dollars and years, but none of those players were grabbed off a point-of-purchase rack while waiting in line at the cash register: three starting pitchers, a homegrown All-Star and a premiere middle-of-the-order bat (the latter two were also signed for below-market AAV projections).

[harmony]

They have had sustained success for the past 20 years and have spent a s*** ton. It's not like they've all of a sudden become a team that has no shot to make the playoffs like the Mariners. If Sale and ERod come back healthy and they sign Bauer, this team is competing with the Yanks and Rays for the division.

Seems I touched a nerve.

 

Despite starting the season with MLB's youngest roster, Seattle this year finished with the ninth-best record in a league that sent eight teams to the postseason. It marked the second time in three years that the Mariners finished within two games of a postseason slot.

 

Here's hoping that our favorite teams bring us joy in the upcoming years.

[jacksonianmarch]

tTe truth teller!

 

I always appreciate your medical input.

 

I'm just enjoying watching Bloom put a contender together. Franchise built for sustaining playoff worthy teams year end year out. I'm willing to give him until 2022 to see significant improvements. Sale comes back when he comes back.

 

I like what the Dodgers are doing except for losing its final game every year.

 

And finally, we've done pretty well since 2004, no? (not directed at you Jackson....)

 

I’ve been pretty honest that your biggest asset is Bloom. I’m actually terrified of what he will do if Henry actually allows him to work yet offers him a blank check to get guys he wants. His mentor is doing a phenomenal job in LA. LA is big budget but also has the prospect capital to literally get any player in the game that they want. I don’t want that to happen. I want Henry to get impatient

[jacksonianmarch]

And Bloom is a master trader. The guys he sold off this year all turned into pumpkins and he at least got some talent back. His Betts deal is looking more and more genius by the day. If he is given the green light to full on tear down the team, then the end result will be a sustained period of excellence without the last place valleys

[harmony]

I’ve been pretty honest that your biggest asset is Bloom. I’m actually terrified of what he will do if Henry actually allows him to work yet offers him a blank check to get guys he wants. His mentor is doing a phenomenal job in LA. LA is big budget but also has the prospect capital to literally get any player in the game that they want. I don’t want that to happen. I want Henry to get impatient

Concur.

[Thunder]

And Bloom is a master trader. The guys he sold off this year all turned into pumpkins and he at least got some talent back. His Betts deal is looking more and more genius by the day. If he is given the green light to full on tear down the team, then the end result will be a sustained period of excellence without the last place valleys

 

At least he's not a master baiter

[notin]

Seems I touched a nerve.

 

Despite starting the season with MLB's youngest roster, Seattle this year finished with the ninth-best record in a league that sent eight teams to the postseason. It marked the second time in three years that the Mariners finished within two games of a postseason slot.

 

Here's hoping that our favorite teams bring us joy in the upcoming years.

 

Well, they have a streak they need to keep alive...

[harmony]

Well, they have a streak they need to keep alive...

Makes it all the more interesting.

[notin]

And Bloom is a master trader. The guys he sold off this year all turned into pumpkins and he at least got some talent back. His Betts deal is looking more and more genius by the day. If he is given the green light to full on tear down the team, then the end result will be a sustained period of excellence without the last place valleys

 

This fan base went from "just one championship before I die" as their dream to finding two consecutive seasons of no post season as completely intolerable. And Henry has shown he shares that latter viewpoint. Bloom won't be able to do a full tear down and rebuild.

 

And Bloom cannot go two seasons with his signature move as trading Mookie Betts. He will have to do something. And while the Rays were not good his first 4 years as VP of Ops, bear in mind 1) he had no budget and 2) no real fan base to appease.

 

The Sox more likely hired him to run the team like Friedman has the Dodgers, who have finished in 1st in the NL West every season of his tenure....

[mvp 78]

Seems I touched a nerve.

 

Despite starting the season with MLB's youngest roster, Seattle this year finished with the ninth-best record in a league that sent eight teams to the postseason. It marked the second time in three years that the Mariners finished within two games of a postseason slot.

 

Here's hoping that our favorite teams bring us joy in the upcoming years.

 

No nerve was touched. The Mariners were 6 games below .500. In a normal year, they would have been out of in by Sept 1. This Sox team is closer to the playoffs than your Mariners team.

[moonslav59]

??? Go back and check what makes up your $114 M number again.

 

Okay, I see where I messed up. Thanks.

 

So we have about $50M to spend, not $66M.

 

If we decide to go $19.9M over, we can spend about $70M.

[moonslav59]

They could lead the league in spending every year and still make money. They don't. They have the capacity, they don't have the will. It's fine. I don't think they should automatically spend as much as possible. It was a CHOICE to not re-sign HOF bound Mookie Betts. They could have kept them if they wanted to. They didn't want to.

 

I guess the word "will" is subjective.

 

They spend a lot. Yes, they make a lot and "could" spend more with "more will," but they clearly have the will to spend a heck of a lot of money.

[moonslav59]

In the past nine seasons the Red Sox have four AL East championships (and two World Series titles), four last-place finishes and one third-place finish.

 

High spending does not guarantee sustained success.

 

I never said it did.

 

My point was about us having a strong "will" to spend and spend like hardly anyone else.

[harmony]

No nerve was touched. The Mariners were 6 games below .500. In a normal year, they would have been out of in by Sept 1. This Sox team is closer to the playoffs than your Mariners team.

And the Red Sox, who finished 12 games below .500, would have been out by August 15 in a normal year.

 

Again, here's hoping that our favorite teams bring us happiness in the upcoming years.

[Bellhorn04]

Again, here's hoping that our favorite teams bring us happiness in the upcoming years.

 

They'll bring us suffering, too. That's part of the deal.