A Realistic View at the 2027 Red Sox Part I

[moonslav59]

46 minutes ago, Tedballgame said:

Yes, he still can be a great player but he has to stay healthy. As Bill Belichick said, "The greatest ability is availability".

The jury is out.

Expecting greatness on day one was unrealistic.

This whole overhype argument rings hollow to me. Nobody expected greatness year one. If they did, they should be called out, but I don't recall anyone having or stating that opinion.

Sure, we had hopes. It's natural. Afterall, there are times rookies do well from day one, and we had three, so the odds were pretty good one might.

[a700hitter]

5 hours ago, Randy Red Sox said:

why is.nt there more discussions about the 2 bad plays Conreras had at 1B? The 2nd one led to the early removal; of Gray. Both were inexcusable.

His nonchalance cost us twice.  The guy is a mental case.   Get rid of him.  He’s a powder keg that can go off at any time.

[moonslav59]

I'm only concerned about Roman's health. That's not the same as saying he'll be great if healthy, but he has done nothing to show he's not good, when he's healthy.

One more note. He has an .803 OPS while playing hurt some of the time.

[moonslav59]

I'm extremely concerned about Anthony's ability to stay on the field- about as much as I finally was with Sale.

Of course, Sale had a much longer record of success when healthy, but he also had 3 times the length of time with injury concerns. When we traded Sale, many asked why. Many more asked why after Sale rebounded.

 

[mvp 78]

18 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I'm extremely concerned about Anthony's ability to stay on the field- about as much as I finally was with Sale.

Of course, Sale had a much longer record of success when healthy, but he also had 3 times the length of time with injury concerns. When we traded Sale, many asked why. Many more asked why after Sale rebounded.

With Anthony, this is the same injury he's had all season. Sox just mismanaged it. 

[Bellhorn04]

12 hours ago, Tedballgame said:

St. Louis and Cincy are  both close to Tennessee. Ideal spots for him. Low pressure cities that don't criticize players like the Boston press.

You're kind of making it sound like Gray was getting ragged on this year by the fans.  I would think most Sox fans loved him this year.

[mvp 78]

1 minute ago, Bellhorn04 said:

You're kind of making it sound like Gray was getting ragged on this year by the fans.  I would think most Sox fans loved him this year.

He was great. Fans complained before the year that he wasn't good enough to be a #2. I argued otherwise. 

[Bellhorn04]

56 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I'm extremely concerned about Anthony's ability to stay on the field- about as much as I finally was with Sale.

Of course, Sale had a much longer record of success when healthy, but he also had 3 times the length of time with injury concerns. When we traded Sale, many asked why. Many more asked why after Sale rebounded.

 

Yeah, I still think that was a horrible trade even while admitting that Sale's rebound has exceeded all expectations.  It was a horrible trade because all the Sox got in return was 10 million and Vaughn Grissom.  Basically they had nothing to lose by keeping him.

[mvp 78]

Just now, Bellhorn04 said:

Yeah, I still think that was a horrible trade even while admitting that Sale's rebound has exceeded all expectations.  It was a horrible trade because all the Sox got in return was 10 million and Vaughn Grissom.  Basically they had nothing to lose by keeping him.

They traded for a prospect who Braves scouts were saying "yeah, maybe he can play 2b, but he's not a SS." I think they could have found someone a little bit better TBH.

[JimEd]

16 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

They traded for a prospect who Braves scouts were saying "yeah, maybe he can play 2b, but he's not a SS." I think they could have found someone a little bit better TBH.

over the last 3 years, has any GM done worse than Brez on trades? i think not.

[mvp 78]

Just now, JimEd said:

over the last 3 years, has any GM done worse than Brez on trades? i think not.

I'm sure there are worse GM's out there. He has been a mixed bag. Some trades have been bad, some good. That really seems par for the course. The issue is that he did a wholesale turnover of the 40 man roster so what we see now has his fingerprints all over it. Every player on the roster is because of a move, or lack thereof, that Breslow made. 

[cp176]

I would love to see Gray come back but it’s likely 50/50.  Sad the season ended for him the way it did. 

I like Roman Anthony of course but I’m not in the camp of thinking that he is the next great power hitter for this team.  So far just another injury prone young ball player.  I really do not like watching anyone like him leading off.

Arias of course needs a long look in spring training.  If he is able to make contact with the ball, he should start somewhere.  This team needs people who actually can see the ball and hit it.

This was certainly a magical season in many ways.  Getting to where they got with the 4 A lineup they fielded most nights was an incredible accomplishment.  In the end not so much.  

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, mvp 78 said:

With Anthony, this is the same injury he's had all season. Sox just mismanaged it. 

Yes, and last year it was an oblique strain. 2 incidents do not indicate a pattern of various injuries, but I'm concerned.

[moonslav59]

44 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Yeah, I still think that was a horrible trade even while admitting that Sale's rebound has exceeded all expectations.  It was a horrible trade because all the Sox got in return was 10 million and Vaughn Grissom.  Basically they had nothing to lose by keeping him.

Grissom was not a bum, at the time.

Sale was not projected to do anything at the time.

[moonslav59]

26 minutes ago, JimEd said:

over the last 3 years, has any GM done worse than Brez on trades? i think not.

You can't be serious.

[Arnold P Buckleflucker]

It will be an interesting offseason but don't count on Eli White coming back.  I was visiting family on the Cape last week and our niece (ER Doc) and her husband (trauma surgeon) reacted in horror when I mentioned the lisfranc procedure Eli just had.  Sad to say, people are lucky to even walk after that surgery, let alone play professional sports and as a "speed guy" at that.  I would love for Eli to make it back because I liked what he did for the club.  Just don't count on it.

[notin]

12 hours ago, a700hitter said:

His nonchalance cost us twice.  The guy is a mental case.   Get rid of him.  He’s a powder keg that can go off at any time.

While the Sox really can’t afford to go this, it’s hard to disagree…

[JAG]

I really am surprised by the acceptance of mediocrity on this board and defending Anthony. He has proved NOTHING at the major league level. Sal Stewart, a rookie of the year in the national league, played 162. That is a ballplayer. Anthony cashes checks and hangs out at bars in Boston while on the IL. The more we accept champagne showers for a mediocre season and getting blown out by the evil team in New York Henry will continue down this path. 

Keep Tolle and Crochet. get rid of Story and Duran. use the rest to get real everyday ballplayers instead of bench players.

[FredLynn]

18 hours ago, drewski6 said:

You had me until the end there.  Casas cannot be counted on for anything and if they dont go get a power bat then I see no reason to not expect more of the same if not worse.

They aren't getting a power bat. And Gray isn't coming back. He was not happy with being removed from the last game. Instead they will again search the bottom of the barrel for rehabbing SPs and make excuses as to why they didn't acquire talent offensively. 

And Henry will smile all the way to the bank.

[FredLynn]

16 minutes ago, JAG said:

I really am surprised by the acceptance of mediocrity on this board and defending Anthony. He has proved NOTHING at the major league level. Sal Stewart, a rookie of the year in the national league, played 162. That is a ballplayer. Anthony cashes checks and hangs out at bars in Boston while on the IL. The more we accept champagne showers for a mediocre season and getting blown out by the evil team in New York Henry will continue down this path. 

Keep Tolle and Crochet. get rid of Story and Duran. use the rest to get real everyday ballplayers instead of bench players.

I've been defending RA here, I admit it. If he sucks again next year that will stop. I still think he is too good to fail. His injury never healed this year and its tough to swing a bat with damage to the wrist and hand.

[Bellhorn04]

2 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

Grissom was not a bum, at the time.

Sale was not projected to do anything at the time.

Grissom was a prospect.  Sale is a Hall of Fame level talent.

I realize no one ever changes their positions on these things.

[Bellhorn04]

1 hour ago, JAG said:

I really am surprised by the acceptance of mediocrity on this board and defending Anthony. He has proved NOTHING at the major league level. Sal Stewart, a rookie of the year in the national league, played 162. That is a ballplayer. Anthony cashes checks and hangs out at bars in Boston while on the IL. The more we accept champagne showers for a mediocre season and getting blown out by the evil team in New York Henry will continue down this path. 

Keep Tolle and Crochet. get rid of Story and Duran. use the rest to get real everyday ballplayers instead of bench players.

Anthony is 22.  Way, way too early to be bailing on him.

[moonslav59]

3 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

They traded for a prospect who Braves scouts were saying "yeah, maybe he can play 2b, but he's not a SS." I think they could have found someone a little bit better TBH.

True, but at the time, I think Grissom still had some trade value and hopes.

A guy who is not very good at SS defense often does fine at 2B. He had a 105 OPS+ w ATL before the trade.

Our 2B OPS+ had been horrible for years. 

The hopes that Sale could ever be healthy again were pretty low for about all of us. The hopes that he could get healthy as be a CY Young candidate were not high at all.

There was some logic to the trade, at the time. It's easy to say it sucked, now. I'll say it, now too.

That is Brez's worst trade. Others are pending and off to concerning starts, but even the Priester deal might end up a plus for us.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

23 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Anthony is 22.  Way, way too early to be bailing on him.

At age 22, the last Red Sox outfielder some evaluators called baseball's top prospect had 20 home runs, 20 stolen bases and 90 RBI. The next year he scored 103 runs, batted .290 and had a 4.8 WAR.

Sure would like to see numbers like that for Anthony before calling him a star.

Andrew Benintendi hasn't came close to those early years, but hasn't been a total bust, making an All-Star team and winning a Gold Glove despite injuries and uniform changes.

And note to Brez -- it's no coincidence that young Beni was able to produce those Boston stats because he was surrounded by legitimate big league TALENT.

 

[My Name is Clarence]

Contreras played first base like a little leaguer. First, he was a spectator on Story's amazing dive and grab up the middle -- getting that out would have been a great momentum play.  Then he camped out BEHIND the bag on Jone's strikeout and on top of that, waited to receive the ball at his chest, rather than extend. He gave up three feet to Jones on that play.  Glad he saved his energy for this home run crawl -- a hit that meant NOTHING.

[My Name is Clarence]

Anthony is the new Bawby Dalback

[JAG]

2 hours ago, FredLynn said:

They aren't getting a power bat. And Gray isn't coming back. He was not happy with being removed from the last game. Instead they will again search the bottom of the barrel for rehabbing SPs and make excuses as to why they didn't acquire talent offensively. 

And Henry will smile all the way to the bank.

I haven't looked at the free agents but I believe Brandon Lowe at 2b is and Luis Garcia at 1b is or he can dh? both power bats

[mvp 78]

37 minutes ago, My Name is Clarence said:

Contreras played first base like a little leaguer. First, he was a spectator on Story's amazing dive and grab up the middle -- getting that out would have been a great momentum play.  Then he camped out BEHIND the bag on Jone's strikeout and on top of that, waited to receive the ball at his chest, rather than extend. He gave up three feet to Jones on that play.  Glad he saved his energy for this home run crawl -- a hit that meant NOTHING.

Welcome to TalkSox!

[notin]

5 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

He was great. Fans complained before the year that he wasn't good enough to be a #2. I argued otherwise. 

You were not alone.

Sonny was clearly aggravated about being pulled early, although most teams in the same positions would have done the same thing (although probably not with someone as cold as Erik Miller has been).  Don’t know if Sonny is one who always gets aggravated when removed or this one really got to him. If it’s the latter, it might influence his decision on his option…

[mvp 78]

21 minutes ago, notin said:

You were not alone.

Sonny was clearly aggravated about being pulled early, although most teams in the same positions would have done the same thing (although probably not with someone as cold as Erik Miller has been).  Don’t know if Sonny is one who always gets aggravated when removed or this one really got to him. If it’s the latter, it might influence his decision on his option…

He had hinted that he was fine with retirement during the season. I don't think he's a guy that will be pitching when he's 40.