Cora and 4 coaches sacked!

[moonslav59]

15 minutes ago, notin said:

That Varitek was fired but the Sox didn’t have the guts to say so, so they called it “re-assignment”…

They were going to offer peanut saleman.

[illinoisredsox]

18 minutes ago, notin said:

Accepted the offer…

Exactly.  Target #11 said yes.

[jdc69]

Will we ever know why this happened?  Other than the poor start that is. Is this a case of Brezlow being more chummy or what? I thought it should've been a complete house cleaning myself.

[Old Red]

5 hours ago, jdc69 said:

Will we ever know why this happened?  Other than the poor start that is. Is this a case of Brezlow being more chummy or what? I thought it should've been a complete house cleaning myself.

Not unless Cora gives his side of the story. I think this is more than the bad start, and the record, and more personal between Cora, and Brez than not. I think Cora had a hand in Bloom getting fired, and Brez knew that, and he somehow was more favorable to JH than Cora. How is the big question. Cora seemed to have favorite son status with JH before, and it was always assumed Cora would move upstairs.

[Hugh2]

16 hours ago, FredLynn said:

Rafaela is wasted at 2B. Keep him in CF and trade Duran.

He's a gold glove defender in CF and from what iv'e seen and read he's average at second base.  This would be the move to make if he was an offensive juggernaut, but considering his value is almost entirely tied up in his glove it makes zero sense to move him to CF. 

People get obsessed with thinking there's a silver bullet to every problem but the reality is you can't make chicken out of chicken s***; re-arranging the deck is pointless on this team.  Unless they start learning to hit again the season is lost. 

[mvp 78]

9 hours ago, notin said:

Probably a good thing.  Lucchino was unpopular and had major charisma issues, but he’s one of the most successful front office people is US sports history…

The Sox FO back then had passion and a drive to win. I can't say that about this place for many years.

[mvp 78]

7 hours ago, jdc69 said:

Will we ever know why this happened?  Other than the poor start that is. Is this a case of Brezlow being more chummy or what? I thought it should've been a complete house cleaning myself.

1. Bad start.

2. Misalignment between Ownership, Breslow and Cora.

3. Cora isn't good at developing young players and that is what this core needs.

4. FO wanted to let go a few of his coaches and Cora wouldn't do it as they were his boys. 

[mvp 78]

1 hour ago, Hugh2 said:

He's a gold glove defender in CF and from what iv'e seen and read he's average at second base.  This would be the move to make if he was an offensive juggernaut, but considering his value is almost entirely tied up in his glove it makes zero sense to move him to CF. 

People get obsessed with thinking there's a silver bullet to every problem but the reality is you can't make chicken out of chicken s***; re-arranging the deck is pointless on this team.  Unless they start learning to hit again the season is lost. 

It's an incomplete roster. In order to get all 5 OFers into the game, somebody has to move positions. If Rafaela is hitting 100 wRC+ or better, he's not a negative at 2b. Also, his defense in CF hasn't been the same this season. 

[notin]

7 hours ago, jdc69 said:

Will we ever know why this happened?  Other than the poor start that is. Is this a case of Brezlow being more chummy or what? I thought it should've been a complete house cleaning myself.

You probably saw the biggest house cleaning you’ll ever see in April probably ever.  

Getting rid of the CBO right now as well just creates more confusion, and it’s not like there is some big storeroom somewhere loaded with unemployed CBO/GMs in hermetically sealed bags just waiting for Amazon to deliver them.  “Did you order the Mike Rizzo?  I don’t think it’s going to fit.”

[notin]

1 minute ago, mvp 78 said:

It's an incomplete roster. In order to get all 5 OFers into the game, somebody has to move positions. If Rafaela is hitting 100 wRC+ or better, he's not a negative at 2b. Also, his defense in CF hasn't been the same this season. 

They don’t need to get all 5 outfielders into every game.  This isn’t Little League. Bench one until someone else cools off…

[mvp 78]

7 minutes ago, notin said:

You probably saw the biggest house cleaning you’ll ever see in April probably ever.  

Getting rid of the CBO right now as well just creates more confusion, and it’s not like there is some big storeroom somewhere loaded with unemployed CBO/GMs in hermetically sealed bags just waiting for Amazon to deliver them.  “Did you order the Mike Rizzo?  I don’t think it’s going to fit.”

If they got rid of the CBO, they wouldn't find anyone serious to fill these positions. They have to stick with Brez for a while now. 

[mvp 78]

7 minutes ago, notin said:

They don’t need to get all 5 outfielders into every game.  This isn’t Little League. Bench one until someone else cools off…

An even worse way to do it. 

[moonslav59]

14 minutes ago, notin said:

They don’t need to get all 5 outfielders into every game.  This isn’t Little League. Bench one until someone else cools off…

When you have 3 starting infielders batting around .530 and IKF even worse, it is absurd to have 5 OF/DHs.

[Nick]

I am happy with the staff changes. I don't want a manager who is the face of the ball club. To me, he always made it about himself. He is a very good coach but the bottom line is he stayed his welcome. Just same old crap with him. His coaching had become very predictable.

So the two guys that gruntled the most it appears are two guys that need to pick up their game, Story and Whitlock. Story plays for the Red Sox ownership, not Cora. Very interesting that players all blame the management when in fact they should look at themselves and that includes Anthony. Is this going to be an annual thing for him? Waste the 1st month each year?

I like having a new coach that coached many of the young players in our system. I did not renew my MLB package and I'm glad I didn't. I'm not going to waste 2 1/2 hours of my  life watching crap.

I can watch 10 minute summary of each game on You Tube. 

[mvp 78]

Just now, Nick said:

I am happy with the staff changes. I don't want a manager who is the face of the ball club. To me, he always made it about himself. He is a very good coach but the bottom line is he stayed his welcome. Just same old crap with him. His coaching had become very predictable.

So the two guys that gruntled the most it appears are two guys that need to pick up their game, Story and Whitlock. Story plays for the Red Sox ownership, not Cora. Very interesting that players all blame the management when in fact they should look at themselves and that includes Anthony. Is this going to be an annual thing for him? Waste the 1st month each year?

I like having a new coach that coached many of the young players in our system. I did not renew my MLB package and I'm glad I didn't. I'm not going to waste 2 1/2 hours of my  life watching crap.

I think Whitlock's comments were fine TBH. In print, you can read into them a little. If you watch them, they are fine. I think media painted his comments in a negative light and tried to combine them with Story's comments. 

[Old Red]

35 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

1. Bad start.

2. Misalignment between Ownership, Breslow and Cora.

3. Cora isn't good at developing young players and that is what this core needs.

4. FO wanted to let go a few of his coaches and Cora wouldn't do it as they were his boys. 

Agree with most, but I’m certainly not blaming Cora for Mayer, and little Anthony looking more Suspect than prospect.

[mvp 78]

4 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Agree with most, but I’m certainly not blaming Cora for Mayer, and little Anthony looking more Suspect than prospect.

You don't have to blame him for their performance, but you can blame him for not wanting to further their development and seeing it more as "babysitting" than coaching. The job is to coach these players, not just set the lineups and make pitching changes. 

[Hugh2]

41 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

It's an incomplete roster. In order to get all 5 OFers into the game, somebody has to move positions. If Rafaela is hitting 100 wRC+ or better, he's not a negative at 2b. Also, his defense in CF hasn't been the same this season. 

Ok BUT is that really going to fix anything? yeah maybe that helps keep guys like Duran/Anthony in the lineup to get them going but they also need to get Story/Mayer and Durbin going too who hypothetically should be better offensive players than Rafaela as well.  It's rearranging the chairs, and if we need to get other people going shouldn't we also be looking to get his defense going too?

He won a gold glove last year and is 25 how could his defense possibly of fallen off?

I'll reiterate my earlier point, we are searching for a silver bullet that just doesn't exist.  

reality is this team stinks, and unless people start hitting they're going to continue to stink no matter how you shuffle the defense. 

[Old Red]

7 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

You don't have to blame him for their performance, but you can blame him for not wanting to further their development and seeing it more as "babysitting" than coaching. The job is to coach these players, not just set the lineups and make pitching changes. 

They were teaching little Anthony how to field grounders in the OF after his first game after being called up last year that he should have been able to do at least since high school. That’s on little Anthony.

[Old Red]

6 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

Ok BUT is that really going to fix anything? yeah maybe that helps keep guys like Duran/Anthony in the lineup to get them going but they also need to get Story/Mayer and Durbin going too who hypothetically should be better offensive players than Rafaela as well.  It's rearranging the chairs, and if we need to get other people going shouldn't we also be looking to get his defense going too?

He won a gold glove last year and is 25 how could his defense possibly of fallen off?

I'll reiterate my earlier point, we are searching for a silver bullet that just doesn't exist.  

reality is this team stinks, and unless people start hitting they're going to continue to stink no matter how you shuffle the defense. 

RAF Man doesn’t look like the same CF this year, and little Anthony looks nowhere near the same player…

[Hugh2]

Just now, Old Red said:

RAF Man doesn’t look like the same CF this year, and little Anthony looks nowhere near the same player…

There seems to be a WHOLE lot of "this guy" doesn't look like he did.  

Who does look good? Contreras and Abreu have been fine and that's really it.  Maybe Connor Wong? he has the 3rd highest OPS on this team.  If Wong is your 3rd best offensive player something has gone horribly wrong.

 

Players who are playing below their level of talent or past performance either offensively, defensively or both. 

I just deleted the first few names I typed, it's pretty much the whole roster. 

[Old Red]

17 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

You don't have to blame him for their performance, but you can blame him for not wanting to further their development and seeing it more as "babysitting" than coaching. The job is to coach these players, not just set the lineups and make pitching changes. 

Maybe Tracy should have done a BETTER job teaching  Mayer, and Anthony when they were down in WOO.🤔

[mvp 78]

10 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

Ok BUT is that really going to fix anything? yeah maybe that helps keep guys like Duran/Anthony in the lineup to get them going but they also need to get Story/Mayer and Durbin going too who hypothetically should be better offensive players than Rafaela as well.  It's rearranging the chairs, and if we need to get other people going shouldn't we also be looking to get his defense going too?

He won a gold glove last year and is 25 how could his defense possibly of fallen off?

I'll reiterate my earlier point, we are searching for a silver bullet that just doesn't exist.  

reality is this team stinks, and unless people start hitting they're going to continue to stink no matter how you shuffle the defense. 

Jarren Duran isn't going to heat up by sitting on the bench. If they just want to plug him at LF fulltime and sit Masa down most of the time, fine. They you have Durbin, Story and Mayer in the IF. I would move Story off of SS immediately as his defense is really bad. Story is either the 2b or competing for DH time. Durbin is the same hitter as last year and his defense has been good. Mayer is going to be a part of this ballclub for the next few years so you need to stick with him for a while. 

The question is do you want Story or Masa in the lineup? 

[mvp 78]

20 minutes ago, Old Red said:

They were teaching little Anthony how to field grounders in the OF after his first game after being called up last year that he should have been able to do at least since high school. That’s on little Anthony.

They should be doing defensive drills all the time. Is there a problem with that? Duran needed extra OF work one offseason after being promoted. 

[Old Red]

2 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Jarren Duran isn't going to heat up by sitting on the bench. If they just want to plug him at LF fulltime and sit Masa down most of the time, fine. They you have Durbin, Story and Mayer in the IF. I would move Story off of SS immediately as his defense is really bad. Story is either the 2b or competing for DH time. Durbin is the same hitter as last year and his defense has been good. Mayer is going to be a part of this ballclub for the next few years so you need to stick with him for a while. 

The question is do you want Story or Masa in the lineup? 

The cold Story no. The hot Story yes. Everyone knows he’s streaky.

[moonslav59]

34 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

You don't have to blame him for their performance, but you can blame him for not wanting to further their development and seeing it more as "babysitting" than coaching. The job is to coach these players, not just set the lineups and make pitching changes. 

You know he wasn't "coaching" players?

[mvp 78]

16 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

There seems to be a WHOLE lot of "this guy" doesn't look like he did.  

Who does look good?

WC40

Abreu

Wong

Yoshida? 

Rafaela - except for the defense downgrade

Monasterio

Some of the other guys have shown some signs, but it'll take time to get their stats back.

 

[Old Red]

1 minute ago, mvp 78 said:

They should be doing defensive drills all the time. Is there a problem with that? Duran needed extra OF work one offseason after being promoted. 

little Anthony shouldn’t be able to field a ground ball in the OF before he gets to the big leagues? Seems little Anthony, and Tracy should be blamed for that, and not Cora. I could see how Cora would be frustrated with that.

[notin]

32 minutes ago, Old Red said:

They were teaching little Anthony how to field grounders in the OF after his first game after being called up last year that he should have been able to do at least since high school. That’s on little Anthony.

According to Tom Verducci, most outfielders do those drills their entire career. Charging a grounder and picking it up with your proper foot forward without stutter-stepping and making a quick, strong throw back in is not as easy as some make it look…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

8 minutes ago, Old Red said:

little Anthony shouldn’t be able to field a ground ball in the OF before he gets to the big leagues? Seems little Anthony, and Tracy should be blamed for that, and not Cora. I could see how Cora would be frustrated with that.

Not buying that. Anthony played 93 games in Woo, out of a total 303 minor league games at three other levels in the org. A ballplayers development isn't just the responsibility of one manager, whose job is mainly to manage the actual games -- not as much as the instructional coaches the system assigns to each level and preseason.