Red Sox (Crochet) at Reds (Abbott): 3/26/26, 4:10pm

[mvp 78]

Opening Day

[moonslav59]

Going against a lefty, I wonder if Cora makes any adjustments.

This seemed to be his template during this spring:

1. Anthony LF

2. Story SS

3. Duran DH

4. Contreras 1B

5. Abreu RF

6. Durbin 3B

7. Mayer 2B

8. Rafaela CF

9. Narvaez C

Does he bat Duran 3rd? (What RHB fits? I doubt it's Durbin 3rd and 3 straight RHBs.)

Maybe Durbin 5th and Abreu 6th?

I kinda like Rafaela 9th.

[Kimmi]

I am just excited to see a regular season game thread!  Not that I'll be participating in it during the game (LOL), but I'm ready for the season to start.  Let's go!

Also, boo on MLB for allowing Netflix exclusive access to tonight's only game.  :)

I kind of like Rafaela batting 9th also.

[mvp 78]

I agree with moon's thoughts on how Cora shapes the lineup. 

I would go:

Duran

Durbin

Anthony

Contreras

Abreu

Story

Mayer

Narvaez

Rafaela

I know putting Anthony 3rd isn't ideal, but I like the idea of rolling the lineup over and having three speed guys in a row: Rafaela/Duran/Durbin before you get to Anthony and Contreras. 

[vegasbob]

Yankees already lead MLB and more importantly the AL East .   They pounded Devers' Giants and have not allowed a run so far this year.   

Sox need to get out of the gate hitting to keep pace, but only a 1/2 game down .

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

16 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

I agree with moon's thoughts on how Cora shapes the lineup. 

I would go:

Duran

Durbin

Anthony

Contreras

Abreu

Story

Mayer

Narvaez

Rafaela

I know putting Anthony 3rd isn't ideal, but I like the idea of rolling the lineup over and having three speed guys in a row: Rafaela/Duran/Durbin before you get to Anthony and Contreras. 

I like your order, but Cora's not going to demote Story; AC doesn't read forums, so he actually believes what he sees in Spring Training.

As for wherever Anthony bats, it's ideal as long as guys are getting on base in front of him. No matter how optimistic people are about the rest of the returning regulars, they're all career .250 hitters with big swing and miss.

Roman is the best hitter with the most consistent hard contact rates, so it's imperative this offense positions him to drive in as many runs as possible. I understand getting the best OBP guy the most ABs possible, but in this offense he'll be more valuable with the most RBI opportunities.

 

[moonslav59]

The 3 slot is not as important as we used to think. I would not put Anthony there. Roman should bat 1 or 2. Once he gets more power, maybe think about the 4 slot.

I'd put Durbin- the contact hitter-up second.

L Anthony

R Durbin

L Duran

R Contreras

L Abreu (flip Story & Abreu v LH'd SP'ers)

R Story

L Mayer

R Narvaez

R Rafaela (Yes, Rafaela 9th)

 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

54 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

The 3 slot is not as important as we used to think. I would not put Anthony there. Roman should bat 1 or 2. Once he gets more power, maybe think about the 4 slot.

I know you agree with the modern metric study that refutes the tradition of batting your best hitter 3rd that baseball minds have been doing for parts of three centuries. And that's ok, as the industry has embraced the trend to bat a guy 2nd so he gets more ABs.

But managers have to consider their roster and the best way to produce as many runs. If he has only two good on-base guys and one elite batter, then the latter might be best used immediately after them.

Batting Anthony after the two worst on-base men -- presumably the #8-9 guys -- seems inexcusable. On this offense, it may be even more egregious than Zimmer in 1978 batting two of his worst on-base regulars #1-2 in front of four Red Sox Hall of Famers (but at least Rice-Yaz-Fisk and Lynn could drive each other in)...

The reason I wouldn't bat Roman 4th is I want to make sure my best power hitter always gets up in the first inning with a chance to give me a quick lead. I felt the same when Devers was here -- he batted 3rd last night and had one of SF's three hits.

This debate is endless. DeRosa batted Schwarber clean-up in the WBC, but he followed Judge -- the game's best all-around hitter last year -- with Witt, maybe the game's fastest star hitter at leadoff. 

 

[JoeBrady]

34 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

This debate is endless.

And fairly meaningless, imho.

• Kimmi knows the numbers better than I do, but my recollection is batting order is fairly meaningless  I think breaking up the lefties might've have shown the biggest impact.
• Since every team is different, every BOP will be different.
• Most of our players don't add many differentiating skills.  These conjectures work better when you have a .375 OBP/45 SB guys, or a 45-HR threat.  Most of guys are a little better/worse at certain areas, but not enough to make a serious impact on BOP.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

6 minutes ago, JoeBrady said:

And fairly meaningless, imho.

• Kimmi knows the numbers better than I do, but my recollection is batting order is fairly meaningless  I think breaking up the lefties might've have shown the biggest impact.
• Since every team is different, every BOP will be different.
• Most of our players don't add many differentiating skills.  These conjectures work better when you have a .375 OBP/45 SB guys, or a 45-HR threat.  Most of guys are a little better/worse at certain areas, but not enough to make a serious impact on BOP.

Opinion noted, even if your first and last points contradict. If Anthony's skills differentiate him from his teammates -- like experts everywhere are claiming -- then management freaking better get the most out of his production.

My point about the batting order this entire decade is that the Red Sox have always had too many strikeout machines and not enough contact hitters. 

We're about to see if that kind of club -- led by starting pitching -- can do what some reporters and fan addicts predict: possibly win the division, most likely make the playoffs, and maybe just maybe go deep into the postseason.

 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

20 minutes ago, JoeBrady said:

And fairly meaningless, imho.

Meanwhile, Tony Vitello, the new manager of the Giants, was hired directly from the college ranks because of his energetic baseball acumen...

... and in his first game as a big league manager last night, he bats his best hitter third in the order. 

[drewski6]

36 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

Meanwhile, Tony Vitello, the new manager of the Giants, was hired directly from the college ranks because of his energetic baseball acumen...

... and in his first game as a big league manager last night, he bats his best hitter third in the order. 

The Red Sox are also batting their best hitter third tonight, whats the problem?

[drewski6]

Although, probs not the best hitter against lefties.

[JoeBrady]

51 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

If Anthony's skills differentiate him from his teammates

IRT Anthony, he might have the skills to bat him anywhere.  I wouldn't be shocked if he was our best OBP guy, arguing top of the order, or our best HR hitter, arguing for #3/4.

[drewski6]

7 minutes ago, JoeBrady said:

IRT Anthony, he might have the skills to bat him anywhere.  I wouldn't be shocked if he was our best OBP guy, arguing top of the order, or our best HR hitter, arguing for #3/4.

And doubles and triples are irrelevant?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

36 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

The Red Sox are also batting their best hitter third tonight, whats the problem?

No prob- yikes

[notin]

Apparently it’s:

Anthony LF

Story SS

Duran DH

Contreras 1b

Durbin 3b

Abreu RF

Kiner-Falefa 2b

Narvaez C

Rafaela CF

 

[Old Red]

3 hours ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

I know you agree with the modern metric study that refutes the tradition of batting your best hitter 3rd that baseball minds have been doing for parts of three centuries. And that's ok, as the industry has embraced the trend to bat a guy 2nd so he gets more ABs.

But managers have to consider their roster and the best way to produce as many runs. If he has only two good on-base guys and one elite batter, then the latter might be best used immediately after them.

Batting Anthony after the two worst on-base men -- presumably the #8-9 guys -- seems inexcusable. On this offense, it may be even more egregious than Zimmer in 1978 batting two of his worst on-base regulars #1-2 in front of four Red Sox Hall of Famers (but at least Rice-Yaz-Fisk and Lynn could drive each other in)...

The reason I wouldn't bat Roman 4th is I want to make sure my best power hitter always gets up in the first inning with a chance to give me a quick lead. I felt the same when Devers was here -- he batted 3rd last night and had one of SF's three hits.

This debate is endless. DeRosa batted Schwarber clean-up in the WBC, but he followed Judge -- the game's best all-around hitter last year -- with Witt, maybe the game's fastest star hitter at leadoff. 

 

Batting orders used to mean something, but since the geeks, and nerds have taken over they don’t mean much anymore IMO. 

[Bellhorn04]

7 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Batting orders used to mean something, but since the geeks, and nerds have taken over they don’t mean much anymore IMO. 

I think it still means a lot to managers.  The only real controversy is the #3 spot thing, which really does kick up a fuss. 😄

[notin]

6 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Batting orders used to mean something, but since the geeks, and nerds have taken over they don’t mean much anymore IMO. 

Another way to look at it is - batting orders never really meant anything but this was proven through analyzing them.

Of course, the original statement is actually just incorrect.  It’s not that batting orders were ever meaningless; they were just always misunderstood and not constructed optimally.  The previous notion of using one of your better hitters in the 3-spot - the batting order position most likely to come up with 2 outs and no one on base - is a good example of questionable strategy…

[moonslav59]

Anthony should lead the team in OBP, as he did last year (not counting Devers.)

My guess is Contreras finishes 2nd in OBP, so batting him 3rd might work better than 4th, especially vs LHPs over Duran.

To me: Anthony 1st or second is the #1 priority.

Contreras, Duran and Abreu should bat 3rd, 4th or 5th.

A RHB should take the other 1 or 2 slot, and that can be Durbin or Story.

[moonslav59]

So, Mayer might be on a platoon set-up with IKF. Maybe it's just a one time thing.

Cora did flip Narvaez to 8th and Rafaela to 9th. (Good move, IMO.)

[notin]

1 hour ago, drewski6 said:

And doubles and triples are irrelevant?

They are cooler with men on base…

[moonslav59]

2 minutes ago, notin said:

Another way to look at it is - batting orders never really meant anything but this was proven through analyzing them.

Of course, the original statement is actually just incorrect.  It’s not that batting orders were ever meaningless; they were just always misunderstood and not constructed optimally.  The previous notion of using one of your better hitters in the 3-spot - the batting order position most likely to come up with 2 outs and no one on base - is a good example of questionable strategy…

If you have two .350 OBP guys up 1 and 2, the 3rd batter should get up with a man or two on base, more often than not. Maybe I'm wrong, and because two get on base sometimes, the chances of zero on base is higher than 50%.

Anyway, I used to think the 3 batter should be the best batter. Now, I think the #2, with #1 and 4 close to it. The #4 should have more power, and the #1 a better OPB.

One key is that the 5 should be better than the #3, but it's close.

[notin]

5 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

So, Mayer might be on a platoon set-up with IKF. Maybe it's just a one time thing.

Cora did flip Narvaez to 8th and Rafaela to 9th. (Good move, IMO.)

And even after they kept Monasterio, IKF still gets the nod…

[Old Red]

12 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

So, Mayer might be on a platoon set-up with IKF. Maybe it's just a one time thing.

Cora did flip Narvaez to 8th and Rafaela to 9th. (Good move, IMO.)

Cora had already come out, and said Mayer would be platooning with IKF. Old news now.

[moonslav59]

Anthony should lead the team in OBP, as he did last year (not counting Devers.)

My guess is Contreras finishes 2nd in OBP, so batting him 3rd might work better than 4th, especially vs LHPs over Duran.

To me: Anthony 1st or second is the #1 priority.

Contreras, Duran and Abreu should bat 3rd, 4th or 5th.

A RHB should take the other 1 or 2 slot, and that can be Durbin or Story.

[notin]

The AI-suggested batting order vs Abbott based on analytics 

Durbin 2b

Story SS

Contreras 1b

IKF 3b (Seriously, and with supporting albeit questionable logic) 

Anthony LF

Abreu RF

Duran DH 

Rafaela CF

Narvaez C

 

For those of you that think analytics has changed EVERYTHING…

 

[moonslav59]

39 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Cora had already come out, and said Mayer would be platooning with IKF. Old news now.

He kinda walked it back some and said it might be a "mix and match" type set-up. (I took that to mean, maybe not a strict platoon.)

[notin]

54 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

He kinda walked it back some and said it might be a "mix and match" type set-up. (I took that to mean, maybe not a strict platoon.)

Really all he said was Mayer would platoon.  That he mentioned both IKF and Monasterio added nothing since no one expected Wong or Yoshida.

https://heavy.com/sports/mlb/boston-red-sox/marcelo-mayer-opening-day-plans/
 

Admittedly not my favorite source, since heavy.com cites CBSSports, who in turn cites Rotoworld…