Red Sox 2025 Season Review/Offseason Preview Thread

[Randy Red Sox]

3 hours ago, Bellhorn04 said:

I've had it with offseason dreams.  Our dreams have never matched up to reality since the day they traded Betts, the day John Henry told us how it's going to be from now on.  

You know I am 68 and grew up having my favourite players in various sports. Players I could cheer for and support along with the jersey for several years. Now it seems that all the the offseason moves involves the team signing guys for 1-2 yrs and then they are gone to be replaced by the next wave of -2  year replacements in a  constant revolving door. I hate it---

[Randy Red Sox]

15 hours ago, vjcsmoke said:

Well I just read a rumor that the Arizona Diamondbacks are in on Bregman.

Article: Diamondbacks’ perfect contract offer to steal Alex Bregman from Red Sox in free agency

Diamondbacks could offer him a contract in the range of 5 years/166 million dollars.  If this happens it would mean the Red Sox got outbid on yet another free agent slugger target.

I'm pretty scared this is exactly what will happen. The Red Sox are hemming and hawing and meanwhile all the good free agents will come off the market.

They will then predictably respond by signing an injury prone player to a short term deal and the guy will miss the first year of his contract on IR so the Red Sox insurance will end up paying almost 80% of the guy's salary. On the books the contract exists but in the real world the Sox will only pay the player real money after he gets healthy.

Is this the worst offseason the Red Sox have ever had? Can anyone think of an even more underwhelming offseason? Aren't we heading BACKWARDS now in terms of fielding a competitive roster?

this is the way of the Red Sox these days.  About to waste another of Crochet's prime years.

[notin]

54 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

That leads to the inevitable arguments about what working out means.  To me the Price signing worked out because we won the division 3 years in a row and the 2018 ring.  I was fine with the Eovaldi contract as well.   

But everyone has their own criteria for 'working out'.

   

Fair point.  I was thinking “pitched well enough to never be an albatross”.

 

And I think of Price as the epitome of bad Sox pitching contracts…

[moonslav59]

2 hours ago, JoeBrady said:

Perhaps you should pay less attention, and I mean that as a positive. 

• I expect us to add a hitter and an SP.
• I do not expect them to acquire anyone today.

I think we are done adding pitchers. I think we subtract by one or two. (Maybe we subtract 3-4 and add one.)

I'm certain we add a batter, but he might be underwhelming. (Perhaps Yandy Diaz, Wiillson Contreras, Sean Murphy at 1B or Vientos or Paredes (1B/3B) or Donovan (2B.)

I'm losing hope we get Bregman, Suarez or KMarte. Maybe 40% we get one of these 3.

[Bellhorn04]

42 minutes ago, notin said:

Fair point.  I was thinking “pitched well enough to never be an albatross”.

 

And I think of Price as the epitome of bad Sox pitching contracts…

And if you look at it as value for money over the life of the contract it was a negative.

Winning the ring counts for a lot for me.

If we adhere strictly to the value for money concept, the contract we gave Foulke didn't work out.  But I don't think many Red Sox fans regret it.

To me the epitome of a bad Red Sox contract if we include them all is Sandoval, because we literally got zero value out of it.  Not one solitary redeeming contribution.   

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

2 hours ago, JoeBrady said:

It was always this way.  The same folks that are complaining today, were complaining in 2007.  We have a much better chance of landing Skenes than having that change.

The point is it wasn't always this way in the Henry Century. 

When the Red Sox were chasing the Yankees in the 00s -- 8 straight second-place finishes -- the winters were full of excitement and suspense because the Sox were truly All In Full Throttle. Any top free agent or small market star was subject to bidding wars between NY and Boston as each tried to keep or gain an edge.

That was a refreshing time; after decades of Steinbrenner monopolizing the markets, the Sox finally had an owner and GM determined to give them an equal chance. We won some, we lost some, and you knew the front office cared as much as we did when Epstein trashed a hotel room after just missing out on signing Jose Contreras.

Now, there are half a dozen clubs keeping pace with the Yanks. And one pretending to every winter...

Sure, the Red Sox still seek to make improvements in the offseasons -- but it's always on their strict terms, which often take months longer than other hungrier contenders. And fans do a lot of waiting around for an anticlimax.

[Randy Red Sox]

46 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I think we are done adding pitchers. I think we subtract by one or two. (Maybe we subtract 3-4 and add one.)

I'm certain we add a batter, but he might be underwhelming. (Perhaps Yandy Diaz, Wiillson Contreras, Sean Murphy at 1B or Vientos or Paredes (1B/3B) or Donovan (2B.)

I'm losing hope we get Bregman, Suarez or KMarte. Maybe 40% we get one of these 3.

one is not enough

[notin]

1 hour ago, Bellhorn04 said:

And if you look at it as value for money over the life of the contract it was a negative.

Winning the ring counts for a lot for me.

If we adhere strictly to the value for money concept, the contract we gave Foulke didn't work out.  But I don't think many Red Sox fans regret it.

To me the epitome of a bad Red Sox contract if we include them all is Sandoval, because we literally got zero value out of it.  Not one solitary redeeming contribution.   

True, and Sandoval (Pablo, for you newbies playing along at home) is an excellent candidate.  But I was talking about pitching contracts, so I didn’t mention him…

[a700hitter]

3 hours ago, Bellhorn04 said:

That leads to the inevitable arguments about what working out means.  To me the Price signing worked out because we won the division 3 years in a row and the 2018 ring.  I was fine with the Eovaldi contract as well.   

But everyone has their own criteria for 'working out'.

   

Is Eovaldi available?  Maybe a 1 year contract with an option for him.  If he gives them 150-60 innings of quality, that would be great.

[notin]

4 minutes ago, a700hitter said:

Is Eovaldi available?  Maybe a 1 year contract with an option for him.  If he gives them 150-60 innings of quality, that would be great.

Reportedly being shopped by Texas.  2 yrs $53mill left on his deal…

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, Randy Red Sox said:

one is not enough

I'm driving the add 2 bats bandwagon.

[moonslav59]

39 minutes ago, notin said:

Reportedly being shopped by Texas.  2 yrs $53mill left on his deal…

2 years is not too long for JH. Nate has a pretty decent injury history, so that fits the model, too.

That being said, he is a #1/#2 when healthy, for sure. Wonder what the return would have to be.

[notin]

7 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

2 years is not too long for JH. Nate has a pretty decent injury history, so that fits the model, too.

That being said, he is a #1/#2 when healthy, for sure. Wonder what the return would have to be.

BTV gives him the same surplus value ($2..4mill) as Allan Castro.  I make that trade yesterday, and I don’t even think they need more starting pitching.  (In fact I think they need to trade a couple.)…

[moonslav59]

4 minutes ago, notin said:

BTV gives him the same surplus value ($2..4mill) as Allan Castro.  I make that trade yesterday, and I don’t even think they need more starting pitching.  (In fact I think they need to trade a couple.)…

It will take more than Castro, so maybe we can give them 2 SP'ers- maybe two from Drohan, Sandlin, Mullins & Uberstine... LOL. (I doubt all 4 get him.)

[Bellhorn04]

12 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

2 years is not too long for JH. Nate has a pretty decent injury history, so that fits the model, too.

That being said, he is a #1/#2 when healthy, for sure. Wonder what the return would have to be.

While extraordinarily unlikely, a trade for Nate and Seager would be cool.  

[moonslav59]

9 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

While extraordinarily unlikely, a trade for Nate and Seager would be cool.  

At their cost, just sign Bregman and Suarez.

[moonslav59]

12 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

While extraordinarily unlikely, a trade for Nate and Seager would be cool.  

They'd have to take Masa and maybe Hicks.

[JoeBrady]

5 hours ago, Bellhorn04 said:

To me the epitome of a bad Red Sox contract if we include them all is Sandoval,

Oddly enough, Sandoval is just the type of FA some fans are clamoring for right now.

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, JoeBrady said:

Oddly enough, Sandoval is just the type of FA some fans are clamoring for right now.

Like who?

[Randy Red Sox]

3 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

Like who?

only Joe

[moonslav59]

1 minute ago, Randy Red Sox said:

only Joe

Joe who?

[Randy Red Sox]

7 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

They'd have to take Masa and maybe Hicks.

Actually all Sox fans can likely go back to sleep till at least late Jan-early Feb until the last  of the FA's left get desperate and the Sox can swoop in with their 1 year deals. 

[moonslav59]

9 minutes ago, Randy Red Sox said:

Actually all Sox fans can likely go back to sleep till at least late Jan-early Feb until the last  of the FA's left get desperate and the Sox can swoop in with their 1 year deals. 

You may end up being right, but I'm doubting it.

Two winters ago, we signed Criswell and traded Sale for Grissom, Dugo for Fitts & Weisert and Robertson/Santos for O'Neill in December.

We signed Giolito January 3rd. We did sign hendriks in FEB.

Last winter, we signed Wilson in November, Chapman in mid December and Buehler for $21M at the end of DEC. We signed Sandoval in DEC. We also traded for Narvaez & others in DEC. Only Breggie was a late signing.

It's really not a pattern.

 

[moonslav59]

Masa, Hicks, Rafaela, Crawford & Arias for Eovaldi and Seager. 

Sign Okamoto or Suarez. Sign Refsnyder.

1. L Anthony CF

2. R Okamoto 1B

3. L Duran LF

4. L Seager SS

5. R Story SS

6. L Abreu RF

7. L Yoshida/ R Refsnyder DH

8. L Mayer/ R Romy 3B

9. R Narvaez C

SP: Crochet, Nate, Gray, Bello, Oviedo/Sandoval

Seager is owed $31m x 6 years ($31M AAV)

Nate is owed $25M and $20M ($22.5M AAV)

Total AAV: 53.5M x 2, then $31M for 4 more years.

Yoshida is owed $18M x 2 ($18M AAV)  Hicks is owed $12M x 2 ($12M AAV) Rafaela is owed $48M/6 ($8M AAV) and Crawford might get $2.5M in arb for 2026.

Total: $40M for a couple years, then just Rafaela & Crawford.

Net gain on the Sox Lux Tax budget is just +$13M for a couple years. ($23M for 4 more.)

[Old Red]

15 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

They'd have to take Masa and maybe Hicks.

NOBODY has to take Masa, and Hicks just, because you want to get rid of them.🤭

[JoeBrady]

12 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

Like who?

Most likely, Marte and Bregman.  Both are too close to that magic age of 34.

[FredLynn]

22 hours ago, notin said:

Who was the last free agent pitcher the Sox signed to a deal longer than 3 years that worked out?  

You’re right! The management isn’t just cheap-they’re also incompetent!

[notin]

18 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

It will take more than Castro, so maybe we can give them 2 SP'ers- maybe two from Drohan, Sandlin, Mullins & Uberstine... LOL. (I doubt all 4 get him.)

That’s not really much more.  I doubt Chris Young would look at Castro and say “the marginal outfielder is a good start, but can I get some AAAA pitchers as well?”
 

Arguably Drohan and Uberstine hinder a deal as neither is very good or has much potential but both require a 40 man roster spot.  

I will say, Eovaldi’s contract structure on B-R looks like it was put together with a trade before 2026?in mind.  Salary goes up from like $2mill in 2025 to $24mil in ‘26. …

[notin]

1 hour ago, FredLynn said:

You’re right! The management isn’t just cheap-they’re also incompetent!

That track record spans over 50 years, multiple executives and 4 WS rings.  

The reality is free agency is a bad way to build a team.   It’s mostly nothing but PR Fluff…

[Bellhorn04]

14 minutes ago, notin said:

That’s not really much more.  I doubt Chris Young would look at Castro and say “the marginal outfielder is a good start, but can I get some AAAA pitchers as well?”
 

Arguably Drohan and Uberstine hinder a deal as neither is very good or has much potential but both require a 40 man roster spot.  

I will say, Eovaldi’s contract structure on B-R looks like it was put together with a trade before 2026?in mind.  Salary goes up from like $2mill in 2025 to $24mil in ‘26. …

B-R is showing 2 separate numbers for 2025.  Looks like it's 22/29/24 = 75.  The $2 mill was an option buyout.