A Realistic View of the 2025 Red Sox: Part II

[vegasbob]

2 hours ago, Old Red said:

Looking back now would things be better today if the Red Sox had kept Raffy at 3B, put Bregman at 2B, and Masa as DH?

That may have been the key to it all.   But someone was determined to get Devers off 3B , thinking they had a competent 2Bman.     As Gomer Pyle said, "Surprise ! Surprise!"

[vegasbob]

57 minutes ago, dgalehouse said:

They have not shown very much. But I do think the team is better than the results have been. A lot of close games where they just could not get the key hit or make the key play.  It wouldn't take too much to improve that. And with three wild cards, any improvement would be reason not to quit on the season. Plus, I just despise all the talk about being " sellers " when it's not yet summer.  What kind of attitude is that?   

How is any team "better" than its record?   The Tuna was correct.

I do get what you mean but teams that look good on advanced metric printouts are paper tigers.   

Cora's postgame to me was very telling.  He implies no one has command of the clubhouse or field mentality , including him.  His  discouragement  at not getting better is palpable

[Bellhorn04]

Giolito was such a horrible signing.  Between that and trading Sale for Grissom, Breslow really did some damage.

[mvp 78]

39 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

You are still selling the Kool-Aid. Which is worse?

(You must still think being contenders is "realistic.")

Flavor Aid. 

[Bellhorn04]

3 minutes ago, vegasbob said:

How is any team "better" than its record?   The Tuna was correct.

I do get what you mean but teams that look good on advanced metric printouts are paper tigers.   

Cora's postgame to me was very telling.  He implies no one has command of the clubhouse or field mentality , including him.  His  discouragement  at not getting better is palpable

There's a good chance the '25 Sox are actually worse than their record right now. 

[mvp 78]

2 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

There's a good chance the '25 Sox are actually worse than their record right now. 

That idiot Pythagoras has them at 33-30 right now. What does he know? Togas are dumb. 

[dgalehouse]

Basically, the Sox are still trying to recover from the asinine decision to fire Dombrowski and bring in Bloom. John Henry wanted to go in a different direction for something " more sustainable ".  It was a very dumb move and has simply not worked out. 

[moonslav59]

15 minutes ago, dgalehouse said:

Basically, the Sox are still trying to recover from the asinine decision to fire Dombrowski and bring in Bloom. John Henry wanted to go in a different direction for something " more sustainable ".  It was a very dumb move and has simply not worked out. 

Yes. The choice to cut spending was the main issue. DD was not the GM for the type of slashing JH had in mind. I doubt we'd have done much better with DD and the budgets JH provided. DD's departure was just a sidebar to the slash and burn philosophy enacted by JH.

I'm not even sure DD would have agreed to stick around under the conditions imposed on Bloom.

[mvp 78]

4 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Yes. The choice to cut spending was the main issue. DD was not the GM for the type of slashing JH had in mind. I doubt we'd have done much better with DD and the budgets JH provided. DD's departure was just a sidebar to the slash and burn philosophy enacted by JH.

I'm not even sure DD would have agreed to stick around under the conditions imposed on Bloom.

DD wasn't going to stay if they wouldn't re-sign Mookie. Therefore, no more DD. 

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

1 hour ago, dgalehouse said:

 Plus, I just despise all the talk about being " sellers " when it's not yet summer.  What kind of attitude is that?   

Realistic?

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

3 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

This doesn't ever really need to be said out loud. We're all blind squirrels finding nuts here and there. 

Ha!

So true.

I just think with all of us realizing this, the irony of calling it the "realistic" thread makes me chuckle.

[moonslav59]

18 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

DD wasn't going to stay if they wouldn't re-sign Mookie. Therefore, no more DD. 

Yes, I agreed with this at the time and still do. It was a bit surprising to hear he came close to trading Betts in 2019.

[oldtimer]

4 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Yes, I agreed with this at the time and still do. It was a bit surprising to hear he came close to trading Betts in 2019.

Interesting sidebar. Betts was a gold glover in right field but now I understand he is the Dodgers SS. Rafaela  has a similar multi-positional flexibility and his move would make room for Anthony, but the Sox haven't made that move even though the season is going down the tube. I have no understanding of what makes the Sox management tick.  It's time to make management changes. 

[mvp 78]

14 minutes ago, oldtimer said:

Interesting sidebar. Betts was a gold glover in right field but now I understand he is the Dodgers SS. Rafaela  has a similar multi-positional flexibility and his move would make room for Anthony, but the Sox haven't made that move even though the season is going down the tube. I have no understanding of what makes the Sox management tick.  It's time to make management changes. 

It's a reluctance to turn the page on Trevor Story because he's a vet. 

[Duran Is The Man]

2 hours ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Giolito was such a horrible signing.  Between that and trading Sale for Grissom, Breslow really did some damage.

i'ts like every move they've made since firing Dombrowski has backfired.

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, Duran Is The Man said:

i'ts like every move they've made since firing Dombrowski has backfired.

All the bigger ones, for sure, except maybe the Devers extension- made out of necessity to keep their heads from being removed by angry fans.

DD didn't help with the Sale extension and failure to lock up Betts earlier, but two parties are involved in those decisions.

When the team stops making mega deals, you kinda have to hit on the mid-level ones. We are 0 for 3. Bregman looked like a winner, and now he's on the IL.

[Duran Is The Man]

2 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

All the bigger ones, for sure, except maybe the Devers extension- made out of necessity to keep their heads from being removed by angry fans.

DD didn't help with the Sale extension and failure to lock up Betts earlier, but two parties are involved in those decisions.

When the team stops making mega deals, you kinda have to hit on the mid-level ones. We are 0 for 3. Bregman looked like a winner, and now he's on the IL.

to be fair, i didn't care for the Sale extension either.

[dgalehouse]

Dombrowski has the knack of seeing what needs to be done and the aggressiveness to go out and do it. He is a good judge of baseball talent. He knows who to acquire, who to trade and who to keep.  The results speak for themselves.

[moonslav59]

10 minutes ago, Duran Is The Man said:

to be fair, i didn't care for the Sale extension either.

To be honest and fair, I thought it was a decent to good deal, even if Sale missed a full season. The fact that he missed part or most of every season was the knife in the heart.

He signed for $145M/5. Had Sale been Sale for just 4 years, a $145M/4 deal would have been fine, especially as the prices for top quality pitching went through the roof, after 2019. (Remember, his extension was from 2020-2024.) Had he been Cy Young Sale, $36M x 4 would be expensive but worth it.

Had he signed Betts, instead of Sale and the Boget extension, we'd have been better off.

[vegasbob]

4 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

That idiot Pythagoras has them at 33-30 right now. What does he know? Togas are dumb. 

If the Sox played in the Greek League, they would be at WC #2 and cruising

[dgalehouse]

I think old Pythagoras was the first fan to holler, " Why can't we save some of those runs for tomorrow ". 

[Nick]

4 hours ago, oldtimer said:

Interesting sidebar. Betts was a gold glover in right field but now I understand he is the Dodgers SS. Rafaela  has a similar multi-positional flexibility and his move would make room for Anthony, but the Sox haven't made that move even though the season is going down the tube. I have no understanding of what makes the Sox management tick.  It's time to make management changes. 

Great observation. Next time I hear either Brez or Cora say he's still working to get better, I will vomit. He has nothing more to learn at AAA competition.

[Larry Cook]

I know Cora has taken a lot of heat and rightfully so!! But I seriously doubt he is calling all the shots!!

Fix the rotation and this team could make the playoffs!!!!

[notin]

6 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

To be honest and fair, I thought it was a decent to good deal, even if Sale missed a full season. The fact that he missed part or most of every season was the knife in the heart.

He signed for $145M/5. Had Sale been Sale for just 4 years, a $145M/4 deal would have been fine, especially as the prices for top quality pitching went through the roof, after 2019. (Remember, his extension was from 2020-2024.) Had he been Cy Young Sale, $36M x 4 would be expensive but worth it.

Had he signed Betts, instead of Sale and the Boget extension, we'd have been better off.

If Sale had been healthy, does he even sign that extension?  Older pitchers like Price and Greinke had landed much bigger ones not long before.

I seem to recall Sale and Bogaerts both being extended because Mookie talks wouldn’t get done and they became consolation prizes…

[moonslav59]

10 minutes ago, notin said:

If Sale had been healthy, does he even sign that extension?  Older pitchers like Price and Greinke had landed much bigger ones not long before.

I seem to recall Sale and Bogaerts both being extended because Mookie talks wouldn’t get done and they became consolation prizes…

That's how I see it, too.

Kinda like Devers was extended because Betts and Bogey were not.

[jdc69]

3 hours ago, Larry Cook said:

I know Cora has taken a lot of heat and rightfully so!! But I seriously doubt he is calling all the shots!!

Fix the rotation and this team could make the playoffs!!!!

That's a question of mine too but if he isnt calling the shots, he seems to be here because of his approval and preference of having an analytics team that would help call the shots to begin with so.... I am also though putting blame on Breslow and JH, with Cora, for them so not being on the same page. I think JH should tell Cora to forget about the analytic team and that he has the team he's going to get and for him to manage his way out of this predicament and toward his future employment.

[cp176]

The firing of Dombrowski was a huge huge error in judgement.  In him, we had a seasoned competent GM.  A proven winner.  The massive rebuild that we have embarked on since his firing is a proven massive failure at this point in time.  

[cp176]

22 hours ago, Old Red said:

The Red Sox are at the very top with strikeouts with MOB. The Red Sox are at the very top in errors, and it’s just not the IF. The OF has been making their share of errors too with boots, and bad throws all over the place. The Red Sox have been a Clown Show since the start of ST with the Raffy situation. and now Cora is completely broken, and shell shocked, and doesn’t know what to do next even asking if what he’s watching is real. The Red Sox are 5 games under 500' and closer to last place in the Division then they are first place their old home away from home.

Cora’s comments made me sick.  He is their coach?  In the world I grew up in, played in and coached in, the coach is responsible for the massive mental errors that a team makes.  Who else gets the blame for a total lack of fundamental baseball being played?  Devers to third, Mayer to second (only because Story has to be handled softly), Masa to dh would give us a contact competent bat that we need in the lineup.  

[moonslav59]

2 hours ago, cp176 said:

The firing of Dombrowski was a huge huge error in judgement.  In him, we had a seasoned competent GM.  A proven winner.  The massive rebuild that we have embarked on since his firing is a proven massive failure at this point in time.  

All true, but how would DD have handled the massive rebuild that included massive budget cuts. The budget cuts and rebuild plan were the culprits. 

Keeping DD for the rebuild would not have worked out, either, IMO. In fact, he may have ended up quitting being asked what was asked of Bloom.

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

Were there any trash cans involved?

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