Chris Sale traded to Braves

[notin]

11 minutes ago, Randy Red Sox said:

This trade was 100% solely about Henry telling Breslow to get off the Sale contract however he could. Anyone who thinks any different is not looking clearly

It cost more to get rid of it.  So why was that the plan?

 

Its starting to look like Sox fans cannot handle when things don’t work out and every time a move fails, fingers must be pointed towards heads that need to roll…

[Randy Red Sox]

13 minutes ago, notin said:

It cost more to get rid of it.  So why was that the plan?

 

Its starting to look like Sox fans cannot handle when things don’t work out and every time a move fails, fingers must be pointed towards heads that need to roll…

we were on the hook for at least 30 million for Sale so we got off a good amount off that

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, notin said:

A guy who deserves a chance? 

A decent attempt to fix the Sox worst position for 6 years!

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, notin said:

It’s not my conspiracy theory; I’m not the one saying Atlanta “knew something.”  And I have my doubts Atlanta or any MLB team pronounces a player healthy based on small samples, especially with millions of dollars at stake.  At best, they saw enough to take a chance.  That’s not “knowing something.”

Why is it Sox fans refuse to believe other teams do reclaimation projects with pitchers?  It’s a strategy that’s been around for so long, Lou Gorman was doing it.  Yet for some reason, other teams don’t take these gambles apparently.  Even in a deal where Atlanta does every obvious move to protect themselves, somehow they “knew something” Boston didn’t.  And not that they were simply more willing to gamble on Sale..

The silly contortions continue.

ATL not only "knew something," but they had "evidence."

What a complete joke.

[moonslav59]

49 minutes ago, Randy Red Sox said:

and here I thought that I was your favourite poster??  I am CRUSHED !!

two of my favorites. You are obviously one of my 3 or 4 tops.

[Old Red]

3 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

What baffles me about all this is that notin and Bell are two of my favorite posters, and I feel like I agree with both of them most of the time.

I don't understand why you two are always at each others' throats. 

How can I mostly agree with two posters who never agree with each other?

OMG! 🙈🤭🤮

[Old Red]

1 hour ago, notin said:

It’s not my conspiracy theory; I’m not the one saying Atlanta “knew something.”  And I have my doubts Atlanta or any MLB team pronounces a player healthy based on small samples, especially with millions of dollars at stake.  At best, they saw enough to take a chance.  That’s not “knowing something.”

Why is it Sox fans refuse to believe other teams do reclaimation projects with pitchers?  It’s a strategy that’s been around for so long, Lou Gorman was doing it.  Yet for some reason, other teams don’t take these gambles apparently.  Even in a deal where Atlanta does every obvious move to protect themselves, somehow they “knew something” Boston didn’t.  And not that they were simply more willing to gamble on Sale..

Atlanta was interested in Sale the year before, but most likely couldn’t get a deal done with Bloom, so the interest this past year was nothing new. It’s not out of the realm of possibility that Atlanta saw enough of Sale in 2023 to think he could help in 2024, which he did at the tune of a Cy Young season. Brez throwing in $17M was a real deal sweetener. It’s not all that hard to see that except for you.

[Duran Is The Man]

6 hours ago, notin said:

So they were tampering?  Atlanta should have had no access to Sale’s medicals, and judging from the extension they gave him, weren’t entirely confident.  They gambled.  They won.

And it’s fine to admit that in hindsight.  It didn’t work out.

But to not understand why the Sox weren’t confident in Sale at bat point is another thing.  And 40 IP stretch with a 3.92 FIP didn’t change their mind, possibly because the season before they signed another aging pitcher winding down a great career who gave his old team a 3.88 FIP over 60 IP and then completely washed out in Boston.  I can’t blame the Sox for moving on, even if it didn’t work out…

i wouldn't have blamed them if we had adequate pitching depth, but we didn't. and still don't. 

[Duran Is The Man]

3 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

two of my favorites. You are obviously one of my 3 or 4 tops.

and all this time, i thought Old Red was your favourite.

[Old Red]

17 minutes ago, Duran Is The Man said:

and all this time, i thought Old Red was your favourite.

😀😀😀

[moonslav59]

1 minute ago, Duran Is The Man said:

i wouldn't have blamed them if we had adequate pitching depth, but we didn't. and still don't. 

Certainly, this makes a lot of sense. This is the management team that has gone out of it's way to gamble on injured pitchers coming back, from Richards & Kluber to Paxton, Hendriks and Fulmer, and what do they do? Give up on the best of them all: Sale.

They guessed wrongly, like they have a lot, lately. They tried to fix the 2B issue and gave up on hopes of Sale returning after a half decade of letdowns. It's not like it made zero sense, but they sure know how to swing and miss.

[moonslav59]

22 minutes ago, Duran Is The Man said:

and all this time, i thought Old Red was your favourite.

He's always good for a hearty laugh.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

28 minutes ago, Duran Is The Man said:

i wouldn't have blamed them if we had adequate pitching depth, but we didn't. and still don't. 

We don't even have inadequate pitching depth...

... but that may not change if John Henry watches the Dodgers use an opener in a couple days and win the World Series.

[Duran Is The Man]

11 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

We don't even have inadequate pitching depth...

... but that may not change if John Henry watches the Dodgers use an opener in a couple days and win the World Series.

we keep fretting about what pitcher(s) the Sox might sign when in reality, the Dodgers will sign any free agent worth having. the rest of us peons will have to fight for the scraps.

[moonslav59]

27 minutes ago, Duran Is The Man said:

we keep fretting about what pitcher(s) the Sox might sign when in reality, the Dodgers will sign any free agent worth having. the rest of us peons will have to fight for the scraps.

How many teams go this far by using 17 pitchers starting a game?

This is not even counting the fact that Ohtani, May and Gonsolin never started a game.

10 pitchers have started 6 or more games.

8 have started 10 or more.

Only 2 have over 18 GS and both are out until 2025 (Glasnow & Stone.)

With the Sox, there has usually been a strong correlation between having 4-5 SP'ers with a lot of GS and ring seasons.

[Randy Red Sox]

4 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

two of my favorites. You are obviously one of my 3 or 4 tops.

please let me know what I have to do to become your favourite poster. It would mean a lot to me

[Randy Red Sox]

4 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

A decent attempt to fix the Sox worst position for 6 years!

2b on the FA market are pretty easy to pick up. WE have had our share of lesser 2B like Bellhorn Loretta, Reese just to name a few.

[moonslav59]

5 minutes ago, Randy Red Sox said:

please let me know what I have to do to become your favourite poster. It would mean a lot to me

LOL, all I can say is that there are a group of 5-6 all bunched together. This damn board parity thing!!!

[moonslav59]

5 minutes ago, Randy Red Sox said:

2b on the FA market are pretty easy to pick up. WE have had our share of lesser 2B like Bellhorn Loretta, Reese just to name a few.

Very true, and so far Grissom has been a big whiff. 

We've been trying for 6 years to fill 2B. I actually like a DHam-Grissom platoon better than anyone else we've had at 2B in 6 years, except for the brief time Story was at 2B.

fWAR rankings

22nd 2017

27th 2018

25th 2019

30th 2020

13th 2021 (Kike, Arroyo & Iggy were all plus)

10th 2022 (Story & Co.)

28th 2023

30th 2024

2017 to 2024: 29th (27th in OAA)

The worst thing is, Grissom may never get a chance to win the 2B job with Campbell, Mayer and Story all crowding up the middle IF for the next few years.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

8 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

Very true, and so far Grissom has been a big whiff. 

The worst thing is, Grissom may never get a chance to win the 2B job with Campbell, Mayer and Story all crowding up the middle IF for the next few years.

I'm taking the optimistic stance: the best thing will be that Campbell is so dominant in Spring Training, he not only wins the starting job, but becomes AL Rookie of the Year (and with the MLB reward pick, the Red Sox draft a future starting pitcher from a D1 school!)...

... meanwhile, Roman Anthony also has a great rookie season, and doesn't get hit by a bone-breaking pitch right before the postseason (like Jim Rice in 1975).

[Bellhorn04]

12 hours ago, Duran Is The Man said:

i wouldn't have blamed them if we had adequate pitching depth, but we didn't. and still don't. 

And that's what I've been saying.  They badly needed more starting pitching.  Everyone said so including the team.  What do they do?  Nothing but swap one risky starting pitcher for another-one reclamation project for another.  That was their answer. 

It's kind of mind-boggling to me.  

 
   

[Old Red]

19 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

And that's what I've been saying.  They badly needed more starting pitching.  Everyone said so including the team.  What do they do?  Nothing but swap one risky starting pitcher for another-one reclamation project for another.  That was their answer. 

It's kind of mind-boggling to me.  

 
   

 

[notin]

15 hours ago, Old Red said:

Atlanta was interested in Sale the year before, but most likely couldn’t get a deal done with Bloom, so the interest this past year was nothing new. It’s not out of the realm of possibility that Atlanta saw enough of Sale in 2023 to think he could help in 2024, which he did at the tune of a Cy Young season. Brez throwing in $17M was a real deal sweetener. It’s not all that hard to see that except for you.

Sale was Atlanta’s reclamation project, just like Kluber was in Boston.  They had no idea he was healthy, and in fact missed two months with a shoulder injury during those two attempts to acquire him.

This shouldn’t be a surprise; lots of teams gamble on pitchers this way.  They quite often don’t work out, and rarely do as well as Sale did.  But they didn’t “know” he was healthy and very likely didn’t declare him so after 40 IP, especially if they tried to acquire him the year before.

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

I'm taking the optimistic stance: the best thing will be that Campbell is so dominant in Spring Training, he not only wins the starting job, but becomes AL Rookie of the Year (and with the MLB reward pick, the Red Sox draft a future starting pitcher from a D1 school!)...

... meanwhile, Roman Anthony also has a great rookie season, and doesn't get hit by a bone-breaking pitch right before the postseason (like Jim Rice in 1975).

If these two can come close to the Lynn-Rice production in '75, we will be looking real good!

Wasn't Evans a rookie in '74, or was it earlier?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

8 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

If these two can come close to the Lynn-Rice production in '75, we will be looking real good!

Wasn't Evans a rookie in '74, or was it earlier?

He made the majors at the end of '72, was the fourth outfielder in '73, and '74 was Evans' first season as a fulltimer (>500 PA) at age 22.

At the same time, the Red Sox also had the following youngsters breaking into the lineup: Rick Burleson 23, Cecil Cooper 24, and Juan Beniquez 24. Rice 21, and Lynn 22 were also called up that final month to get a taste. Fisk was already the regular catcher at 26 (though injured most of the year).

This isn't all nostalgia... maybe a parallel of bountiful farm harvests for the next few seasons?

 

[Bellhorn04]

17 hours ago, notin said:

Its starting to look like Sox fans cannot handle when things don’t work out and every time a move fails, fingers must be pointed towards heads that need to roll…

Yes, when things go wrong, we point fingers.  We all do it.  Bloom had fingers pointed at him by all of us for various things that didn't work out, and then Henry pointed his finger and said "see ya". 

Why would this be different?

[moonslav59]

24 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

He made the majors at the end of '72, was the fourth outfielder in '73, and '74 was Evans' first season as a fulltimer (>500 PA) at age 22.

At the same time, the Red Sox also had the following youngsters breaking into the lineup: Rick Burleson 23, Cecil Cooper 24, and Juan Beniquez 24. Rice 21, and Lynn 22 were also called up that final month to get a taste. Fisk was already the regular catcher at 26 (though injured most of the year).

This isn't all nostalgia... maybe a parallel of bountiful farm harvests for the next few seasons?

 

Nice recall.

Butch Hobson also came up briefly in '75 (4 PAs)

[moonslav59]

5 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Yes, when things go wrong, we point fingers.  We all do it.  Bloom had fingers pointed at him by all of us for various things that didn't work out, and then Henry pointed his finger and said "see ya". 

Why would this be different?

Sadly, it does seem to be "the way of the world." The blame game is as old as mankind.

1978: Mike Torrez & Bucky Freakin' Dent

1986: McNamara leaving Buckner in

2003: Grady (Did you watch the Netflix series, where Theo said, "Can we fire him, now?")

2012: Bobby V & Beergate

2015: Ben signing Pablito & HRam (not Scherzer)

2019: Restgate

These are but a few from many...

[Bellhorn04]

31 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Sadly, it does seem to be "the way of the world." The blame game is as old as mankind.

1978: Mike Torrez & Bucky Freakin' Dent

1986: McNamara leaving Buckner in

2003: Grady (Did you watch the Netflix series, where Theo said, "Can we fire him, now?")

2012: Bobby V & Beergate

2015: Ben signing Pablito & HRam (not Scherzer)

2019: Restgate

These are but a few from many...

2019: Dombrowski ruined us for years with Price and Sale-and got fired.

2020: Goodbye Mookie.

And on and on it goes... 

 

[moonslav59]

49 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

2019: Dombrowski ruined us for years with Price and Sale-and got fired.

2020: Goodbye Mookie.

And on and on it goes... 

 

It can be a list longer than the amount of years we have followed the Sox.