Chris Sale traded to Braves

[Bellhorn04]

Now my point is if Sale was in Boston, would he be getting this same treatment? And if not, how would that effect his performance here? (Yes, he would still be better than Cooper Criswell. But would he be in Cy Young talks and a solid frontrunner for Comeback Player of the Year?)

 

The Unknowable.

[Old Red]

I saw it. They're giving extra rest to their starters especially during stretches where they have 5 or 6 games in a row. Is that helping? It certainly seems that way, since they have two starters headed to the All Star game who have not been full time starters since 2019 and who have combined for barely more IP total in the past 4 years than Giolito has had in the past two all by himself.

 

Now my point is if Sale was in Boston, would he be getting this same treatment? And if not, how would that effect his performance here? (Yes, he would still be better than Cooper Criswell. But would he be in Cy Young talks and a solid frontrunner for Comeback Player of the Year?)

 

Sale will be starting his 17th game tonight, and supposedly his 18th Sun. Both Houck, and Kut Man have started 18 games, and will both start their 19th game before Sunday to put in perspective.

[Bellhorn04]

7 inning starts:

 

Sale 9

Houck 5

Crawford 2

[notin]

Sale will be starting his 17th game tonight, and supposedly his 18th Sun. Both Houck, and Kut Man have started 18 games, and will both start their 19th game before Sunday to put in perspective.

 

According to B-R, Crawford has 18 starts, but according to Fangraphs, he has 19.

 

Interesting.

[notin]

7 inning starts:

 

Sale 9

Houck 5

Crawford 2

 

And yet both Houck and Crawford have more IP than Sale...

[notin]

And yet both Houck and Crawford have more IP than Sale...

 

Of course, if we look at number of pitches thrown - the real thing they try to limit - Houck stands at 1,687. Crawford has 1,583. And Sale is right behind him at 1,541...

[mvp 78]

Sale will be starting his 17th game tonight, and supposedly his 18th Sun. Both Houck, and Kut Man have started 18 games, and will both start their 19th game before Sunday to put in perspective.

 

Spoiler Alert: he won't be starting on Sunday

[mvp 78]

7 inning starts:

 

Sale 9

Houck 5

Crawford 2

 

Also based on ability.

[mvp 78]

Of course, if we look at number of pitches thrown - the real thing they try to limit - Houck stands at 1,687. Crawford has 1,583. And Sale is right behind him at 1,541...

 

Sale gets into the 7th inning throwing less pitches: ability.

[notin]

Sale gets into the 7th inning throwing less pitches: ability.

 

Oh no doubt. Plus efficiency with him getting there more often in fewer starts...

[notin]

Spoiler Alert: he won't be starting on Sunday

 

Now see. If he was in Boston, this might not be the case. The Sox might have the worst starting pitcher depth in all of MLB...

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Of course, if we look at number of pitches thrown - the real thing they try to limit - Houck stands at 1,687. Crawford has 1,583. And Sale is right behind him at 1,541...

 

Don't forget the number of pitches Pitchman Dave O'Brien makes every night; this isn't a knock, but this batter doesn't have a knock yet tonight, though he had two knocks last game, and is among the team leaders in knocks, and needs a knock -- there's a knock between first and second, and that's going to be a knock... there's his knock.

[notin]

The Unknowable.

 

Then what is the point here?

 

If the Sox had kept Sale, he would certainly be better than most if not all of their current starters. But would he get extra days off as often as he is in Atlanta? Most likely not. Would he go fewer IP/start? No idea how Cora would manage his workload or even if it would be any different than any other starter. Would he be throwing the same pitch mix? Not sure, but right now his 35% fastball rate is higher than any Sox starter except Pivetta.

 

So we really have no idea how he would really be doing...

[mvp 78]

Then what is the point here?

 

If the Sox had kept Sale, he would certainly be better than most if not all of their current starters. But would he get extra days off as often as he is in Atlanta? Most likely not. Would he go fewer IP/start? No idea how Cora would manage his workload or even if it would be any different than any other starter. Would he be throwing the same pitch mix? Not sure, but right now his 35% fastball rate is higher than any Sox starter except Pivetta.

 

So we really have no idea how he would really be doing...

 

Ok, so I'm not going to make an argument for anyone else.

 

The Sox trade of Sale was defensible. Sale was oft injured and they weren't interested in signing him to an extension because of it. Another team that was much closer to contention was willing to take that risk. The Sox traded him to Atlanta for a decent prospect. The trade was fine, but not overwhelming. Grissom was a poor SS that was transitioning to 2B. A young guy that had been rushed to MLB due to injury. He has an everyday player ceiling, but not All Star level. The Sox needed help at 2B because the options were Valdez (no glove, platoon), Reyes (only RHB and soon to be DFA) and Hamilton (who nobody expected to play a significant role on the MLB team). The realistic MiLB options was an underperforming Yorke and a grab bag of org guys. If Grissom doesn't work out, the Sox are only out one year of Sale's partial salary. They can trade Grissom, release Grissom or just keep him around the way they did with Dalbec. There is no great negative impact to the team.

 

I'm happy that Sale is doing well. He was a good teammate and wanted to do well for the fans in Boston. It just didn't end well due to injury. I'm sure that Sale would be pitching well if he was in Boston this year. Would the numbers be the same? Hard to say. Would he be getting an extra days rest in between starts? No. When you make a move in the offseason, you don't see into the future. You can't know for sure that Sale would be healthy. The risk of future injury will still be there for Sale, as it is for Eovaldi, ERod and others that we have talked about bringing back at times.

[Bellhorn04]

Ok, so I'm not going to make an argument for anyone else.

 

The Sox trade of Sale was defensible. Sale was oft injured and they weren't interested in signing him to an extension because of it.

 

I don't understand this particular argument. The Sox had a team option on Sale for 2025 for $20 million-an option that automatically vested if he reached certain targets, including not being on the IL at the end of the season. Given Sale's injury history and the risk mitigation of the option, it would be pure insanity to even think about an extension.

[Old Red]

Ok, so I'm not going to make an argument for anyone else.

 

The Sox trade of Sale was defensible. Sale was oft injured and they weren't interested in signing him to an extension because of it. Another team that was much closer to contention was willing to take that risk. The Sox traded him to Atlanta for a decent prospect. The trade was fine, but not overwhelming. Grissom was a poor SS that was transitioning to 2B. A young guy that had been rushed to MLB due to injury. He has an everyday player ceiling, but not All Star level. The Sox needed help at 2B because the options were Valdez (no glove, platoon), Reyes (only RHB and soon to be DFA) and Hamilton (who nobody expected to play a significant role on the MLB team). The realistic MiLB options was an underperforming Yorke and a grab bag of org guys. If Grissom doesn't work out, the Sox are only out one year of Sale's partial salary. They can trade Grissom, release Grissom or just keep him around the way they did with Dalbec. There is no great negative impact to the team.

 

I'm happy that Sale is doing well. He was a good teammate and wanted to do well for the fans in Boston. It just didn't end well due to injury. I'm sure that Sale would be pitching well if he was in Boston this year. Would the numbers be the same? Hard to say. Would he be getting an extra days rest in between starts? No. When you make a move in the offseason, you don't see into the future. You can't know for sure that Sale would be healthy. The risk of future injury will still be there for Sale, as it is for Eovaldi, ERod and others that we have talked about bringing back at times.

 

Like I said previously. The reason there is so much talk about Sale is, because of the way things have worked out, which couldn’t be much worse for the zRed Sox at this point. Gio was hurt before throwing 1 inning, and Grissom has been hurt not once, but twice, and was ineffective when he did play. Sale on the other hand is having a CY type season, and good for him. The Red Sox are also paying out $35M to two pitchers that aren’t pitching for them, or not pitching at all. At the moment the Red Sox are not only playing good, but good enough at this point to be in the postseason, and the Red Sox could sure use Sale in the rotation right now. Grissom may come back at some point, and contribute, and Sale could end up injured again, but who knows.

[mvp 78]

Like I said previously. The reason there is so much talk about Sale is, because of the way things have worked out, which couldn’t be much worse for the zRed Sox at this point. Gio was hurt before throwing 1 inning, and Grissom has been hurt not once, but twice, and was ineffective when he did play. Sale on the other hand is having a CY type season, and good for him. The Red Sox are also paying out $35M to two pitchers that aren’t pitching for them, or not pitching at all. At the moment the Red Sox are not only playing good, but good enough at this point to be in the postseason, and the Red Sox could sure use Sale in the rotation right now. Grissom may come back at some point, and contribute, and Sale could end up injured again, but who knows.

 

Red Sox are 49-40 and in the playoff hunt. I think it could be much worse for them if you want to be honest. If Grissom doesn't work out at all, it's not the end of the world. Posters were joking about "full throttle" all offseason. That the Sox are playing good baseball is a godsend. What Sale does in ATL is irrelevant.

[Bellhorn04]

What could derail this season is if Houck and/or Crawford wear down. That would bring the team's reluctance to reinforce the rotation back under the microscope. But maybe Breslow will make an add before the deadline. We can hope.

[Old Red]

Red Sox are 49-40 and in the playoff hunt. I think it could be much worse for them if you want to be honest. If Grissom doesn't work out at all, it's not the end of the world. Posters were joking about "full throttle" all offseason. That the Sox are playing good baseball is a godsend. What Sale does in ATL is irrelevant.

 

I think it was a lot more than joking all offseason about the full throttle comment. I don’t know how many times we heard Sham, sham, sham. That was no joke.

[notin]

What could derail this season is if Houck and/or Crawford wear down. That would bring the team's reluctance to reinforce the rotation back under the microscope. But maybe Breslow will make an add before the deadline. We can hope.

 

The rotation is extremely precarious right now. An injury to Pivetta could derail the season. That is why the Sox NEED to add at least one full time starter to the rotation.

[Old Red]

What could derail this season is if Houck and/or Crawford wear down. That would bring the team's reluctance to reinforce the rotation back under the microscope. But maybe Breslow will make an add before the deadline. We can hope.

 

The starting rotation will definitely be the key for the rest of the season just as they have been pretty much all year. I’m not big on Wink there, and Criswell is pretty much the only other option without any additions.

[Bellhorn04]

It's pretty incredible how good the pitching has been considering last year's numbers and the fact the only significant addition was immediately gone for the season. Bailey is doing one hell of a job.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Grissom may come back at some point, and contribute, and Sale could end up injured again, but who knows.

 

I do: Grissom will hit a walk-off homer in Game Six of the World Series vs. Atlanta off Tanner Scott, but Sale -- the Braves' scheduled Game Seven starter -- will then take a pregame tumble upon arrival at Fenway, tripping over a cross-walk on Lansdowne Street, then getting bonked on his pitching elbow off a BP dinger by Bo Bichette.

 

Instead, the Braves will be forced to pitch a rookie who Boston has never seen before. Twenty-one Red Sox will strike out swinging at sweepers two-feet outside, but after a couple speedsters get on base via late-inning walks, Raffy will throw his bat at a lowball in the righty batter's box... and barrel the championship-winning hit off the Monster... with lucky, unrepeatable RBIs!

 

The ring-bearer will be the Incredible Houck, who, as a rookie, was referred to as a righthanded-Chris Sale. "I told you," said Sale.

[mvp 78]

I do: Grissom will hit a walk-off homer in Game Six of the World Series vs. Atlanta off Tanner Scott, but Sale -- the Braves' scheduled Game Seven starter -- will then take a pregame tumble upon arrival at Fenway, tripping over a cross-walk on Lansdowne Street, then getting bonked on his pitching elbow off a BP dinger by Bo Bichette.

 

Instead, the Braves will be forced to pitch a rookie who Boston has never seen before. Twenty-one Red Sox will strike out swinging at sweepers two-feet outside, but after a couple speedsters get on base via late-inning walks, Raffy will throw his bat at a lowball in the righty batter's box... and barrel the championship-winning hit off the Monster... with lucky, unrepeatable RBIs!

 

The ring-bearer will be the Incredible Houck, who, as a rookie, was referred to as a righthanded-Chris Sale. "I told you we didn't have to spend real money," said John Henry.

 

Had to make one slight update.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Had to make one slight update.

 

"Certainly there was consideration for the component of durability as a mitigating factor of the Sale trade, especially the probability of potentially facing him in the postseason," said Craig Bloomslow.

[notin]

I do: Grissom will hit a walk-off homer in Game Six of the World Series vs. Atlanta off Tanner Scott, but Sale -- the Braves' scheduled Game Seven starter -- will then take a pregame tumble upon arrival at Fenway, tripping over a cross-walk on Lansdowne Street, then getting bonked on his pitching elbow off a BP dinger by Bo Bichette.

 

Instead, the Braves will be forced to pitch a rookie who Boston has never seen before. Twenty-one Red Sox will strike out swinging at sweepers two-feet outside, but after a couple speedsters get on base via late-inning walks, Raffy will throw his bat at a lowball in the righty batter's box... and barrel the championship-winning hit off the Monster... with lucky, unrepeatable RBIs!

 

The ring-bearer will be the Incredible Houck, who, as a rookie, was referred to as a righthanded-Chris Sale. "I told you," said Sale.

 

The Sox make the World Series after downgrading to Bo Bichette?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

The Sox make the World Series after downgrading to Bo Bichette?

 

He was with the Braves, replacing the equally-impotent Arcia... unless he was a cheap rental to replace O'Neill, who was part of the Seattle blockbuster for Bryce Miller.

[Maxbialystock]

Red Sox are 49-40 and in the playoff hunt. I think it could be much worse for them if you want to be honest. If Grissom doesn't work out at all, it's not the end of the world. Posters were joking about "full throttle" all offseason. That the Sox are playing good baseball is a godsend. What Sale does in ATL is irrelevant.

 

I wish we still had Sale, but you could not be more right about how amazing the Sox have been this season. With Sale in Atlanta and Giolito on the IL the entire season, this is still the Sox best pitching staff in a long time. Breslow blew it on Sale and Giolito, but totally redeemed himself with pitching coach Bailey.

 

Meanwhile, our no-name lineup (albeit with both Devers and Duran in the ASG) stinks at infield defense, but is good in the outfield and good at hitting the ball--and hopefully improving at scoring runs. Taking 2/3 @ Yankee stadium last weekend was a very encouraging sign, even with that horrible, terrible, rotten, stinking throw by Valdez Friday to enable the Yankees to score 3 (officially just 2) unearned runs.

[Dipre]

Red Sox are 49-40 and in the playoff hunt. I think it could be much worse for them if you want to be honest. If Grissom doesn't work out at all, it's not the end of the world. Posters were joking about "full throttle" all offseason. That the Sox are playing good baseball is a godsend. What Sale does in ATL is irrelevant.

 

Not rocket science.

[Dipre]

I wish we still had Sale, but you could not be more right about how amazing the Sox have been this season. With Sale in Atlanta and Giolito on the IL the entire season, this is still the Sox best pitching staff in a long time. Breslow blew it on Sale and Giolito, but totally redeemed himself with pitching coach Bailey.

 

Meanwhile, our no-name lineup (albeit with both Devers and Duran in the ASG) stinks at infield defense, but is good in the outfield and good at hitting the ball--and hopefully improving at scoring runs. Taking 2/3 @ Yankee stadium last weekend was a very encouraging sign, even with that horrible, terrible, rotten, stinking throw by Valdez Friday to enable the Yankees to score 3 (officially just 2) unearned runs.

 

It's not just Bailey. The entire pitching infrastructure has been overhauled. The Sale trade is still defensible, and no one, and I mean no one, expected Giolito to be injured. Ineffective? Maybe. But that's a whole other argument.