A Realistic View at 2024: Part I

[mvp 78]

I'll form an opinion one way or the other once the roster is finished. Too much making stuff up for my taste, specially from you MVP, since you're an expert in calling people out for teaching at "Make s*** up university". You're the reason I distrust red hair whenever I see it

 

I'm on the faculty. Game recognizes game.

[Dipre]

I'm on the faculty. Game recognizes game.

 

"Game is game"

[Hitch]

I'm guessing Werner deeply regrets that choice of words now. What he said was "full throttle in every area" but of course those two words sounded like "we're spending, baby" to just about everyone.

 

This is why a lot of owners tend to stay away from the media. Werner clearly run his mouth without thinking, nore likely wanting to signify that they were going to shake things up. Now that quote is being used by every baseball writer in America.

[Hugh2]

They "went for it" after dealing Vaz? They were actively shopping JD and Sale, but Bloom couldn't pull the trigger because of his fear of losing a trade.

 

Bloom f'd up. That's all there is too it.

 

I can't dispute these facts.

[moonslav59]

The most successful teams are able to use financial might to attract and retain talent, but also supplement any remaining holes with their farm (either via trades or promotion). Sox seem to now just ignore the financial aspect of all of this and think they can just grow it internally. I think that limits the overall ceiling and window.

 

Well said.

[moonslav59]

The website still has a picture of Xander on the Who We Are page. Talk about not being able to read the room...

 

...and their inability to pay attention to details and accurate, consistent messaging.

[mvp 78]

@redsoxstats

Numbers

 

Grissom 5

O'Neill 17

Campbell 44

Giolito 54

Weissert 57

Castillo 61

Slaten 63

Criswell 64

[dgalehouse]

The Sox are where they are because they essentially got rid of every good , championship caliber player they had ( except Devers ) . For the most part, they replaced them with lesser talented players. The most obvious reason was MONEY. The hope now has to be that the young guys can come through in a big way and get this team back on track.

[moonslav59]

The Sox are where they are because they essentially got rid of every good , championship caliber player they had ( except Devers ) . For the most part, they replaced them with lesser talented players. The most obvious reason was MONEY. The hope now has to be that the young guys can come through in a big way and get this team back on track.

 

True.

 

Many of the best players from 2018 are not close to the same level, now, but the best of that young core are all gone, except Devers.

 

Had they kept Betts, Bogey, Devers and vet Nate, we'd be better.

JD is still good, but so was JT.

ERod was a good one, but had some issues with DET.

Letting Kimbrel & Kelly go was the start of this decline, but neither is great, now.

 

Keeping Sale proved to a mistake.

Keeping Beni would not have helped.

JBJ sucks.

Vaz is in decline.

Barnes? LOL

Price & Porcello are out of baseball, so losing them was inevitable.

 

Time has passed many of the old guard, but I'm with you.

 

You gotta lock up your young studs as early as possible, even if you get a couple wrong.

[Randy Red Sox]

True.

 

Many of the best players from 2018 are not close to the same level, now, but the best of that young core are all gone, except Devers.

 

Had they kept Betts, Bogey, Devers and vet Nate, we'd be better.

JD is still good, but so was JT.

ERod was a good one, but had some issues with DET.

Letting Kimbrel & Kelly go was the start of this decline, but neither is great, now.

 

Keeping Sale proved to a mistake.

Keeping Beni would not have helped.

JBJ sucks.

Vaz is in decline.

Barnes? LOL

Price & Porcello are out of baseball, so losing them was inevitable.

 

Time has passed many of the old guard, but I'm with you.

 

You gotta lock up your young studs as early as possible, even if you get a couple wrong.

 

 

Problem is we have no young quality pitching and without it this team is going NOWHERE

[moonslav59]

Problem is we have no young quality pitching and without it this team is going NOWHERE

 

We have some so-so to decent young arms on the big club and a couple longshots on the farm, but no "top quality:" I agree.

 

24 Bello, Max Castillo

25 Wink, Murphy

26 I Campbell, Walter

27 Crawford, Houck, Whitlock, Criswell

28 Kelly, Weissert

29 Schreiber

Note: I listed all with a sliver of hope. Some a teenie-tiny sliver.

 

Farm:

19 Paez, Soto

20 Perales, E R-C

21 Wikelman, Monegro, Early

22 Bastardo, Rogers, I Coffey, Sena, Judice

23 Guerrero, Cepeda, Olivarez, Mullins

24 Fitts, Mata, Dobbins, Troye, Liu

25 Hoppe

26 Slaten, Gambrell, Penrod, Song

Sure looks like an unpromising group on the farm!

[Dipre]

Problem is we have no young quality pitching and without it this team is going NOWHERE

 

You can trade for quality pitching. This very team has done it for years.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

You can trade for quality pitching. This very team has done it for years.

 

Rosenthal speculates momentum building towards the White Sox trading Dylan Cease into the AL East... will it be New York or Baltimore?

 

Will it even be worth it for Boston to overpay with top prospects to keep Cease from New York or Baltimore?

 

One big move like that for Breslow would almost necessitate more; otherwise, why sell the future if you're not going for it now?

 

1. Trade for Cease, 2. sign Montgomery or Imanaga, 3. sign Teoscar or Duvall...

 

... or keep all the prospects, sign some lower level arms, and just field a full team to sell tickets for '24.

[Dipre]

Cease has Snell syndrome with worse luck on batted balls. Unlike Snell, there's a probability of it being fixable with a modification to his repertoire and approach. But the same question as usual rear its ugly head: Are the Sox an organization that's equipped to fix a pitcher like Cease?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Cease has Snell syndrome with worse luck on batted balls. Unlike Snell, there's a probability of it being fixable with a modification to his repertoire and approach. But the same question as usual rear its ugly head: Are the Sox an organization that's equipped to fix a pitcher like Cease?

 

The ugly heads that have failed in pitching development the past two decades still haunt the Red Sox front office, but new faces in the new regime give us hope.

 

CBO Breslow and pitching coach Bailey specialize in mound rebounds, and they've also brought on board a new director of pitching in Justin Willard, who served a similar role in Minnesota.

 

This is one area where we owe these guys some time to make improvements. But it can't just be targeting and recruiting projects; fans and media have had enough of that approach -- bonafide reliable talent must be added to the MLB rotation to justify customer investment of time and money into this entertainment product.

[mvp 78]

Problem is we have no young quality pitching and without it this team is going NOWHERE

 

They have quality pitching, but the vast majority of it will be in the bullpen. Even guys like Perales and Wikelman may wind up in the bullpen when they get to BOS or transition there eventually. Aside from Bello, the only other starting prospects that are close are Fitts (who we haven't seen) and Gambrel (who is a 5th starter at best).

[moonslav59]

Rosenthal speculates momentum building towards the White Sox trading Dylan Cease into the AL East... will it be New York or Baltimore?

 

Will it even be worth it for Boston to overpay with top prospects to keep Cease from New York or Baltimore?

 

One big move like that for Breslow would almost necessitate more; otherwise, why sell the future if you're not going for it now?

 

1. Trade for Cease, 2. sign Montgomery or Imanaga, 3. sign Teoscar or Duvall...

 

... or keep all the prospects, sign some lower level arms, and just field a full team to sell tickets for '24.

 

I like Cease, but I prefer traing even more prospects to get a young pitcher with 3-5 years of control, not 2 like Cease.

 

Since it looks like we may never go large and long on a 30+ pitcher ever again, we would not be extending Cease.

[Randy Red Sox]

They have quality pitching, but the vast majority of it will be in the bullpen. Even guys like Perales and Wikelman may wind up in the bullpen when they get to BOS or transition there eventually. Aside from Bello, the only other starting prospects that are close are Fitts (who we haven't seen) and Gambrel (who is a 5th starter at best).

 

simply not good enough to compete

[mvp 78]

Cease has Snell syndrome with worse luck on batted balls. Unlike Snell, there's a probability of it being fixable with a modification to his repertoire and approach. But the same question as usual rear its ugly head: Are the Sox an organization that's equipped to fix a pitcher like Cease?

 

He's Blake Snell if Blake Snell took the ball every 5 days.

[mvp 78]

simply not good enough to compete

 

They need to acquire their rotation guys through other means for now. Maybe Connelly Early can develop over the next few years? Maybe Monegro can add some velo? Right now, the farm is barren of real starting prospects.

[moonslav59]

One of the main reasons given for always drafting and signing IFA non pitchers is that you can trade them later for more known pitching commodities.

 

That really has not happened for frontline pitching since Nate and Sale, before him. (Some did not view nate as "front line," when we acquired him, and only giving up Beeks is evidence of that position.)

[Bellhorn04]

One of the main reasons given for always drafting and signing IFA non pitchers is that you can trade them later for more known pitching commodities.

 

That really has not happened for frontline pitching since Nate and Sale, before him. (Some did not view nate as "front line," when we acquired him, and only giving up Beeks is evidence of that position.)

 

What the heck is frontline pitching? That's even vaguer than "ace".

[mvp 78]

One of the main reasons given for always drafting and signing IFA non pitchers is that you can trade them later for more known pitching commodities.

 

That really has not happened for frontline pitching since Nate and Sale, before him. (Some did not view nate as "front line," when we acquired him, and only giving up Beeks is evidence of that position.)

 

Freili Encarnacion isn't bringing back a FRONTLINE starter.

[mvp 78]

What the heck is frontline pitching? That's even vaguer than "ace".

 

It's like pornography. You know it when you see it.

[notin]

It's like pornography. You know it when you see it.

 

But more family-friendly…

[moonslav59]

What the heck is frontline pitching? That's even vaguer than "ace".

 

I meant it to mean a solid #1 or 2 like traded for Pedro, Schilling, Beckett, Lackey, Sale and Nate.

 

Not Pivetta, Winckowski, Paxton, Wacha, Hill, Richards, Perez...

[moonslav59]

Freili Encarnacion isn't bringing back a FRONTLINE starter.

 

Huh?

 

Did I even hint at that?

[mvp 78]

But more family-friendly…

 

Watch out for those washing machines. Step sisters and step moms are always getting stuck in them!

[mvp 78]

Huh?

 

Did I even hint at that?

 

Signing International Free Agent non pitchers to trade later on.

[Hugh2]

One of the main reasons given for always drafting and signing IFA non pitchers is that you can trade them later for more known pitching commodities.

 

That really has not happened for frontline pitching since Nate and Sale, before him. (Some did not view nate as "front line," when we acquired him, and only giving up Beeks is evidence of that position.)

 

 

I've been saying this same mantra for years, but I'm starting to shift my opinion on it.

 

Yes you can trade hitting for pitching, but you can't get away with that to build the majority of your pitching staff. Yes we've developed our own guys who are good E.G. Houck. But not enough high end talent. When is the last time we developed an ACE?

 

Sure we can trade for one, and perhaps we should, but if you're trading 4 for 1, or 3 for 1 prospects for pitching, eventually you're going to have no team on the field behind them. Prospects bust, but some don't, and the more bullets you fire the more Bogaerts, Betts, Durans, Casas, Bello's, Houcks you're missing out on. I know the talent level varies on that list, but you need good to better talent all up/down your roster to compete for championships.

 

At some point, the Boston Red Sox are going to have to do a much better job of bringing in elite pitching talent, Whether that's trading for younger pitching prospects who they can better evaluate and develop (a good example of this would be if Fitts develops into a #3) and/or drafting pitchers via Rule 4 and IFA.