Red Sox: Off Season '23-'24

[Old Red]

moon, over and over you have used "the past three years" as a measuring stick, but you are ignoring '21 with Dalbec for some reason. Why? Is it because of the 877 OPS vs LHP in 176 AB's that would almost triple his sample size??????????

 

🙈🤭 I have said for the last two months that Bobby D would be the backup 1B/3B. He’s available, and he’s cheap if nothing else. If Bobby D was going to be gone he would have been gone by now, but he’s still here, so some will have to get over that.

[mvp 78]

@mlbtraderumors

Reds Sign Tony Kemp To Minor League Deal

[mvp 78]

I have said for the last two months that Bobby D would be the backup 1B/3B. He’s available, and he’s cheap if nothing else. If Bobby D was going to be gone he would have been gone by now, but he’s still here, so some will have to get over that.

 

I've said it for 3 months.

[Old Red]

I've said it for 3 months.

 

He’s far from a wasted roster spot.

[mvp 78]

He’s far from a wasted roster spot.

 

They aren't going to compete for the playoffs. I'd give him a full year to show what he has. If he sucks, DFA him next offseason.

[moonslav59]

moon, over and over you have used "the past three years" as a measuring stick, but you are ignoring '21 with Dalbec for some reason. Why? Is it because of the 877 OPS vs LHP in 176 AB's that would almost triple his sample size??????????

 

I just posted 2020-2023. Try to keep up.

[mvp 78]

I just posted 2020-2023. Try to keep up.

 

Why did you exclude '21 in the first place? There isn't a significant sample in '22 and '23 with Dalbec's numbers since he barely played those seasons.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

They aren't going to compete for the playoffs. I'd give him a full year to show what he has. If he sucks, DFA him next offseason.

 

But if he's good, trade him at the deadline with Giolito -- if he's good, too... (because a good Gio is as good as gone in '25).

[mvp 78]

But if he's good, trade him at the deadline with Giolito -- if he's good, too... (because a good Gio is as good as gone in '25).

 

Fine to me. Trade whoever at the deadline. They need to find as many starting pitchers to throw down on the farm as they can get.

[moonslav59]

Why did you exclude '21 in the first place? There isn't a significant sample in '22 and '23 with Dalbec's numbers since he barely played those seasons.

 

I was trying to show the Sox best hitters v LHPs, and Ref has only been here 2 years.

[mvp 78]

I was trying to show the Sox best hitters v LHPs, and Ref has only been here 2 years.

 

It was strictly to compare Refsnyder and Dalbec because those are the names you highlighted.

 

Over and over and over again you talk about how the past 3 years are important indicators of future success. Why didn't you measure the past 3 years of Dalbec vs the past 3 years of Refsnyder? Does Refsnyder's '21 not count because he played elsewhere and did poorly? Does Dalbec's '21 not count because he actually had a meaningful sample that season and did well?

[moonslav59]

It was strictly to compare Refsnyder and Dalbec because those are the names you highlighted.

 

Over and over and over again you talk about how the past 3 years are important indicators of future success. Why didn't you measure the past 3 years of Dalbec vs the past 3 years of Refsnyder? Does Refsnyder's '21 not count because he played elsewhere and did poorly? Does Dalbec's '21 not count because he actually had a meaningful sample that season and did well?

 

No. I answered why. You just didn't like my answer.

 

I gave the 4 year numbers, also, since that is how long Bobby Dee has been on the Sox, and it included his best season (2020.)

 

Yes, I like to use the 3 recent year sample size, mostly, because I think it is better than career numbers, as an indicator of what to expect. I'm not locked into 3 years. If the 3rd year is a rookie year, I'd probably think the recent 2 years is a better indicator. If a player is aging and had a big year, 3 years ago, I might also think the recent 2 years is a better indicator.

 

I was not intentionally trying to make Ref look better than Bobby Dee. I went back 4 years, which helped Bobby Dee.

 

Here are the 3 year numbers you are crying about:

 

vs LHPs (250+ PAs)

43. Refsnyder .865 (142 wRC+)

67. Bobby Dee .836 (124 wRC+)

 

Why would I try to hide these numbers?

 

Ref blows BD away, again. 2 years and 3 years (and 4 yrs in wRC+, only.)

 

Geesh!

 

BTW, even the 4 year sample showed Ref with a wRC+ 10 points higher than BD.

 

[mvp 78]

Another Sham post by moon!

[Randy Red Sox]

But if he's good, trade him at the deadline with Giolito -- if he's good, too... (because a good Gio is as good as gone in '25).

 

yeah because then Sox need to plan for the 2025 FA SP market. FULL THROTTLE in 2025 baby

[moonslav59]

Another Sham post by moon!

 

You can't handle the truth!

[jad]

Yup. The Red Sox way: when a guy gets good, trade him.

[moonslav59]

Yup. The Red Sox way: when a guy gets good, trade him.

 

No. That's what we shoulda done.

[Bellhorn04]

Yup. The Red Sox way: when a guy gets good, trade him.

 

Especially if he's the best all-around player in the history of the team. Get that guy's ass outa here!

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Especially if he's the best all-around player in the history of the team. Get that guy's ass outa here!

 

Tomase wrote a column about how great the Red Sox would be if they kept all the talent they allowed to leave Boston. I refused to read it, since we've all basically been living it for the past half decade.

 

But as a fan who could care less about billionaires' budgets and "overpaying" market value for longterm contracts -- to those who care more: what good has it been for the Red Sox not to pay most of their best players, since they barely ever use the savings to recruit and sign other stars... legitimate reinforcements that address obvious needs?

 

How can fans celebrate staying under the luxury tax if their team refuses them the luxury of optimism.

[notin]

Tomase wrote a column about how great the Red Sox would be if they kept all the talent they allowed to leave Boston. I refused to read it, since we've all basically been living it for the past half decade.

 

But as a fan who could care less about billionaires' budgets and "overpaying" market value for longterm contracts -- to those who care more: what good has it been for the Red Sox not to pay most of their best players, since they barely ever use the savings to recruit and sign other stars... legitimate reinforcements that address obvious needs?

 

How can fans celebrate staying under the luxury tax if their team refuses them the luxury of optimism.

 

What fan has ever celebrated staying under the luxury tax?

[jad]

Tomase wrote a column about how great the Red Sox would be if they kept all the talent they allowed to leave Boston. I refused to read it, since we've all basically been living it for the past half decade.

 

But as a fan who could care less about billionaires' budgets and "overpaying" market value for longterm contracts -- to those who care more: what good has it been for the Red Sox not to pay most of their best players, since they barely ever use the savings to recruit and sign other stars... legitimate reinforcements that address obvious needs?

 

How can fans celebrate staying under the luxury tax if their team refuses them the luxury of optimism.

 

Yup. But brace yourself for the response of the 'fantasy-GM' crowd who will sternly remind you of the economic 'realities' (i.e., 'fantasies') of team ownership.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Yup. But brace yourself for the response of the 'fantasy-GM' crowd who will sternly remind you of the economic 'realities' (i.e., 'fantasies') of team ownership.

 

"How can anyone pay ___________ (fill in the blank with any dollar amount since the beginning of recorded history) someone to play a child's game?"

[notin]

Yup. But brace yourself for the response of the 'fantasy-GM' crowd who will sternly remind you of the economic 'realities' (i.e., 'fantasies') of team ownership.

 

But at least he can seek comfort and solace with the whiny, entitled fans who never learned the difference between “acknowledging” and “condoning”…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

What fan has ever celebrated staying under the luxury tax?

 

Only those on social media when the Red Sox bragged about resetting -- but then deleted the post before the rest of us could have a party.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

But at least he can seek comfort and solace with the whiny, entitled fans who never learned the difference between “acknowledging” and “condoning”…

 

Imagine how many Red Sox fans would condone taking back Betts, Bogaerts, Schwarber and Eovaldi (to name a few) and their existing contracts right now -- today -- and even acknowledge that the club would have to pay kajillions of taxes for years.

 

What do you think that number of fans would be closer to: 1). a handful of forum posters or 2). the majority of Red Sox Nation, who would welcome the return of star players they recently rooted for who won in Boston, and would give them a better chance of winning again while they have some time left on this earth.

[jad]

Only those on social media when the Red Sox bragged about resetting -- but then deleted the post before the rest of us could have a party.

 

Ah yes! The memories! Those were teh days. As for economic 'realities', there are no such things; the phrase is generally used by rich people explaining why poor people have to suffer.

[notin]

Imagine how many Red Sox fans would condone taking back Betts, Bogaerts, Schwarber and Eovaldi (to name a few) and their existing contracts right now -- today -- and even acknowledge that the club would have to pay kajillions of taxes for years.

 

What do you think that number of fans would be closer to: 1). a handful of forum posters or 2). the majority of Red Sox Nation, who would welcome the return of star players they recently rooted for who won in Boston, and would give them a better chance of winning again while they have some time left on this earth.

 

Yes that would be great.

 

Also, very pricey for the last few years. And acknowledging/recognizing Henry (or any owner) wasn’t going to pay that total price while not having pitching doesn’t mean anyone likes it…

[notin]

Only those on social media when the Red Sox bragged about resetting -- but then deleted the post before the rest of us could have a party.

 

That was annoying and stupid. Also not fans…

[Randy Red Sox]

No. I answered why. You just didn't like my answer.

 

I gave the 4 year numbers, also, since that is how long Bobby Dee has been on the Sox, and it included his best season (2020.)

 

Yes, I like to use the 3 recent year sample size, mostly, because I think it is better than career numbers, as an indicator of what to expect. I'm not locked into 3 years. If the 3rd year is a rookie year, I'd probably think the recent 2 years is a better indicator. If a player is aging and had a big year, 3 years ago, I might also think the recent 2 years is a better indicator.

 

I was not intentionally trying to make Ref look better than Bobby Dee. I went back 4 years, which helped Bobby Dee.

 

Here are the 3 year numbers you are crying about:

 

vs LHPs (250+ PAs)

43. Refsnyder .865 (142 wRC+)

67. Bobby Dee .836 (124 wRC+)

 

Why would I try to hide these numbers?

 

Ref blows BD away, again. 2 years and 3 years (and 4 yrs in wRC+, only.)

 

Geesh!

 

BTW, even the 4 year sample showed Ref with a wRC+ 10 points higher than BD.

 

 

who cares-they BOTH stink

[notin]

Imagine how many Red Sox fans would condone taking back Betts, Bogaerts, Schwarber and Eovaldi (to name a few) and their existing contracts right now -- today -- and even acknowledge that the club would have to pay kajillions of taxes for years.

 

What do you think that number of fans would be closer to: 1). a handful of forum posters or 2). the majority of Red Sox Nation, who would welcome the return of star players they recently rooted for who won in Boston, and would give them a better chance of winning again while they have some time left on this earth.

 

 

Also worth pointing out, in Tomase’s article the Sox rotation was Eovaldi/Bello/Giolito/Whitlock/Pivetta, which isn’t that much better than what they have right now.

 

Tomase has the payroll at $252mil, but didn’t acknowledge either side of the Sale trade. No mention of either player. I assume this means in his world the Sox never extended him. Such is the benefits of hindsight…