Red Sox: Off Season '23-'24

[notin]

Imagine how many Red Sox fans would condone taking back Betts, Bogaerts, Schwarber and Eovaldi (to name a few) and their existing contracts right now -- today -- and even acknowledge that the club would have to pay kajillions of taxes for years.

 

What do you think that number of fans would be closer to: 1). a handful of forum posters or 2). the majority of Red Sox Nation, who would welcome the return of star players they recently rooted for who won in Boston, and would give them a better chance of winning again while they have some time left on this earth.

 

Not to mention, Tomase conveniently forgets about all the Sox contracts that have since expired. The Sox payroll in 2019 was $240mill. That figure includes Price ($32mill AAV through 2022) and JD Martinez ($22mill AAV through 2022). Were the Sox going to extend Betts, Bogaerts, Vazquez, Schwarber, and Eovaldi and stack all that on top of the existing payroll? Even with 2024 “down” to $252mill, did fans really expect the Sox to be up there in the $280-290mill range for 2021/22?

[moonslav59]

who cares-they BOTH stink

 

One of our weak areas is hitting LHPs, especially in the OF. Ref is one of MLBs best batters vs LHPs in the last 2, 3 or 4 years.

 

Nobody wants him to play FT, and I doubt anyone wants him to start even one game vs a RH'd starter. He fills a need.

 

The problem is we also have no real back-up 1Bman, and that is the sole reason Dalbec is in the conversation for the 26 slot. He also does well vs LHPs, but does not really fit the OF need, well. Ref does not fill the 1B need, well, if at all.

[moonslav59]

Not to mention, Tomase conveniently forgets about all the Sox contracts that have since expired. The Sox payroll in 2019 was $240mill. That figure includes Price ($32mill AAV through 2022) and JD Martinez ($22mill AAV through 2022). Were the Sox going to extend Betts, Bogaerts, Vazquez, Schwarber, and Eovaldi and stack all that on top of the existing payroll? Even with 2024 “down” to $252mill, did fans really expect the Sox to be up there in the $280-290mill range for 2021/22?

 

Stop celebrating our budget cuts!!!!

[notin]

One of our weak areas is hitting LHPs, especially in the OF. Ref is one of MLBs best batters vs LHPs in the last 2, 3 or 4 years.

 

Nobody wants him to play FT, and I doubt anyone wants him to start even one game vs a RH'd starter. He fills a need.

 

The problem is we also have no real back-up 1Bman, and that is the sole reason Dalbec is in the conversation for the 26 slot. He also does well vs LHPs, but does not really fit the OF need, well. Ref does not fill the 1B need, well, if at all.

 

Just sign Garrett Cooper and cut them both. Problem solved…

[notin]

Stop celebrating our budget cuts!!!!

 

I didn’t know you could see the party favors…

[moonslav59]

Just sign Garrett Cooper and cut them both. Problem solved…

 

These guys are so cheap, they won't even do that.

 

Ref and Dalbec might even have slight trade value. We could, at least get someone to take on Ref's salary. Dalbec is at min.

[moonslav59]

Just sign Garrett Cooper and cut them both. Problem solved…

 

2021-2023 v LHPs (250+ PAs)

 

43. Refsnyder .865

67. Dalbec .836

76. Cooper .821

 

Sorry, I'm only allowed to use 3 year sample sizes.

[notin]

2021-2023 v LHPs (250+ PAs)

 

43. Refsnyder .865

67. Dalbec .836

76. Cooper .821

 

Sorry, I'm only allowed to use 3 year sample sizes.

 

 

If you go by one year, Cooper (.904) is the leader.

 

I doubt they spend on Cooper. Dalbec park maybe makes more sense than Refsnyder from a versatility standpoint, but Ref has a contract. Of course, they might be room for both on the 26 man. With 4 bench spots, these two, McGuire and Reyes.

 

That does leave the dilemma of who backs up CF. Especially if they use the lineup from Roster Resource…

Edited February 24, 2024 by notin

[Bellhorn04]

Not to mention, Tomase conveniently forgets about all the Sox contracts that have since expired. The Sox payroll in 2019 was $240mill. That figure includes Price ($32mill AAV through 2022) and JD Martinez ($22mill AAV through 2022). Were the Sox going to extend Betts, Bogaerts, Vazquez, Schwarber, and Eovaldi and stack all that on top of the existing payroll? Even with 2024 “down” to $252mill, did fans really expect the Sox to be up there in the $280-290mill range for 2021/22?

 

With perfect 20/20 hindsight, they should have gone all in on extending Betts and bid adieu to Sale and Bogaerts.

 

Not retaining Betts was a crucial blunder with long-lasting effects.

 

Of course it's easy to say that with Mookie coming off another All-World season.

[notin]

With perfect 20/20 hindsight, they should have gone all in on extending Betts and bid adieu to Sale and Bogaerts.

 

Not retaining Betts was a crucial blunder with long-lasting effects.

 

Of course it's easy to say that with Mookie coming off another All-World season.

 

From what I recall, that’s what Dombrowski was trying to do. Betts just wasn’t so amenable to his offers…

[notin]

2021-2023 v LHPs (250+ PAs)

 

43. Refsnyder .865

67. Dalbec .836

76. Cooper .821

 

Sorry, I'm only allowed to use 3 year sample sizes.

 

Also, you’re using OPS instead of OPS+/-. If there is a ballpark that helps lefties hit right-handed hitters against southpaws, it’s Fenway…

[Bellhorn04]

From what I recall, that’s what Dombrowski was trying to do. Betts just wasn’t so amenable to his offers…

 

That's because of Lowball Johnny.

 

-Henry balked at an extra $12 mill for A-Rod when Theo was GM.

-Henry lowballed Lester when Ben was GM.

-Henry lowballed Betts when DD was GM, and again when Bloom was GM, according to Mookie.

-Henry lowballed Bogaerts when Bloom was GM.

 

It should be pretty clear by now that John Henry is the man who draws the financial lines in the sand.

 

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

[moonslav59]

If you go by one year, Cooper (.904) is the leader.

 

I doubt they spend on Cooper. Dalbec park maybe makes more sense than Refsnyder from a versatility standpoint, but Ref has a contract. Of course, they might be room for both on the 26 man. With 4 bench spots, these two, McGuire and Reyes.

 

That does leave the dilemma of who backs up CF. Especially if they use the lineup from Roster Resource…

 

I see this for OF depth, assuming Rafaela starts in AAA:

 

LF: O'Neill (Duran, Ref, Yoshida)

CF: Duran (Abreu)

RF: Abreu (O'Neill)

 

So, the back-up CF would just be a shift: Abreu to CF, O'Neill to RF and Ref/Yoshida in LF.

[moonslav59]

With perfect 20/20 hindsight, they should have gone all in on extending Betts and bid adieu to Sale and Bogaerts.

 

Not retaining Betts was a crucial blunder with long-lasting effects.

 

Of course it's easy to say that with Mookie coming off another All-World season.

 

I think it was true in foresight, as well. Betts was clearly the beast of the group.

 

I liked the Sale extension, so it's hard for me to flip, now, but Betts over him seems like a slam dunk, now and then.

 

The Bogey extension was cheap. The opt-out killed us.

[moonslav59]

Also, you’re using OPS instead of OPS+/-. If there is a ballpark that helps lefties hit right-handed hitters against southpaws, it’s Fenway…

 

How do I find OPS+ for a 3 year period split v L?

[moonslav59]

That's because of Lowball Johnny.

 

-Henry balked at an extra $12 mill for A-Rod when Theo was GM.

-Henry lowballed Lester when Ben was GM.

-Henry lowballed Betts when DD was GM, and again when Bloom was GM, according to Mookie.

-Henry lowballed Bogaerts when Bloom was GM.

 

It should be pretty clear by now that John Henry is the man who draws the financial lines in the sand.

 

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

 

JH was also the guy who brought the team to the top of the spending rankings for many years, and top 3-5 for many years in a row. Without that (or him,) we may still have no rings for over a century, now.

 

I'm not downplaying the mistakes and choices you listed. They were doozies.

[dgalehouse]

Still nothing happening with the remaining free agents. So, there is still a chance that the Sox get one, most likely Montgomery. In general , I think Boras and/or these players have overrated their desirability and value. While there is some talent there, they are not exactly future Hall of Famers either. Be patient. It should work itself out in the next few days.

[moonslav59]

Still nothing happening with the remaining free agents. So, there is still a chance that the Sox get one, most likely Montgomery. In general , I think Boras and/or these players have overrated their desirability and value. While there is some talent there, they are not exactly future Hall of Famers either. Be patient. It should work itself out in the next few days.

 

They'd be signed if a GM over-rated them.

 

They may not be HOF, but Monty and Snell are both top 30 pitchers.

 

That has a lot of value, these days.

[moonslav59]

Check this out...

 

https://fb.watch/qqwgVq5dHz/

[jacksonianmarch]

The offseason is actually falling into the sox lap right now. Montgomery would be an easy add and he would probably take less money to go there (his wife is a physician in her residency in Boston).

[Old Red]

Bellinger inks 3yr/$80M with Cubs, which pretty much amounts to 1yr/$30M.

[Hugh2]

Bellinger inks 3yr/$80M with Cubs, which pretty much amounts to 1yr/$30M.

 

Or like… $26.67 million for three years.

[Old Red]

Or like… $26.67 million for three years.

 

No! 1 yr/$30M after he opts out after that first year.

[Bellhorn04]

MLBTR predicted Bellinger would get $264 million. I'm guessing the delta of $184 million is a record.

[Old Red]

MLBTR predicted Bellinger would get $264 million. I'm guessing the delta of $184 million is a record.

 

If he signed this contract then Boras asking price definitely wasn’t out there, so he signed this, and if he has a good year will try for that big contract again next year.

[Bellhorn04]

If he signed this contract then Boras asking price definitely wasn’t out there, so he signed this, and if he has a good year will try for that big contract again next year.

 

Yeah, he got the classic pillow contract for this year. But who knows if he'll ever see that big contract.

[Hugh2]

No! 1 yr/$30M after he opts out after that first year.

 

Yeah you’re right, I saw that he has an opt out.

 

I’m not sure Bellinger is back, he certainly had a bounce back year but to his MVP campaign level at all. But even if he’s just good, he could probably get more than $50/2 next year.

[notin]

Yeah you’re right, I saw that he has an opt out.

 

I’m not sure Bellinger is back, he certainly had a bounce back year but to his MVP campaign level at all. But even if he’s just good, he could probably get more than $50/2 next year.

 

 

Prior to 2023, Bellinger had a .648 OPS (76 OPS+) over the previous three seasons. I wouldn’t guarantee his opting out just yet…

[notin]

MLBTR predicted Bellinger would get $264 million. I'm guessing the delta of $184 million is a record.

 

Probably the 9 years is, too…

[notin]

The offseason is actually falling into the sox lap right now. Montgomery would be an easy add and he would probably take less money to go there (his wife is a physician in her residency in Boston).

 

I doubt he takes less money for Boston. Why would he take less money over, say, seven years if her residency is much shorter? (I have no idea how long it is.)