Red Sox: Off Season '23-'24

[notin]

Agreed.

 

It would force Yoshida or Soler to play LF just about every game. That forces Duran to CF and O'Neill to RF.

 

It makes no sense.

 

It may move the needle for me, but in the wrong direction!

 

But on the bright side, maybe it distracts us from the woeful corner INF defense…

[moonslav59]

But on the bright side, maybe it distracts us from the woeful corner INF defense…

 

Strong up the middle on D might not be enough.

 

If Duran is part of the "middle," I'm not sure we can say that, either.

[notin]

Strong up the middle on D might not be enough.

 

If Duran is part of the "middle," I'm not sure we can say that, either.

 

If they sign Soler and deal Duran for a SP, it might not be so bad…

[moonslav59]

If they sign Soler and deal Duran for a SP, it might not be so bad…

 

That could be a plan.

 

To me, why not just spend on pitching and see what Duran can do for us at a low cost.

 

This fixation with LF/DH types is driving me nuts.

 

Duran is fine in LF, to me. Okay, he hits lefty, but he has speed that can help us win in different ways.

 

Just roll the dice with Rafaela, Abreu and Ref (Yoshi, at times) as the 3rd OF'er and use the resources available to get the best SP'er the budget allows.

 

I'd be happier with Lauer and Duran than Soler or Duvall and maybe Cabrera (for Duran.)

[cp176]

Strong up the middle on D might not be enough.

 

If Duran is part of the "middle," I'm not sure we can say that, either.

 

Adequate behind the plate and a huge question mark at second base makes us a big so so with respect to up the middle defense and it doesn't matter whether they have a gold glover in center field.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Adequate behind the plate and a huge question mark at second base makes us a big so so with respect to up the middle defense and it doesn't matter whether they have a gold glover in center field.

 

I'll take a gold glover anywhere on the diamond, especially in the outfield, where most of the Red Sox pitches will end up this year.

 

Even NESN is already making errors -- yesterday they left out a big comma in their headline: "Red Sox losing Justin Turner to Blue Jays"...

 

... it should read "Red Sox losing , Justin Turner to Blue Jays"... to separate two thoughts: 1. 2024's prediction; 2. another good player they chose not to pay to stay

[moonslav59]

Adequate behind the plate and a huge question mark at second base makes us a big so so with respect to up the middle defense and it doesn't matter whether they have a gold glover in center field.

 

Better D in CF should help, but that will likely not be enough to get us to the playoffs. It would make watching the games more enjoyable.

 

I think Grissom will be more than adequate, on D by season's end

 

The Wong-McGuire combo needs to improve, but are nearing the ages where, historically, many do.

[moonslav59]

I'll take a gold glover anywhere on the diamond, especially in the outfield, where most of the Red Sox pitches will end up this year.

 

Even NESN is already making errors -- yesterday they left out a big comma in their headline: "Red Sox losing Justin Turner to Blue Jays"...

 

... it should read "Red Sox losing , Justin Turner to Blue Jays"... to separate two thoughts: 1. 2024's prediction; 2. another good player they chose not to pay to stay

 

Actually, a semicolon.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Actually, a semicolon.

 

I look at the latest news as a continuation of a long line of Sox Suckitude: Red Sox losing, Betts to LA, Schwarber to Philly, ERod to Detroit, Bogaerts to SD, Eovaldi to Texas, Turner to Tor, Wacha to anywhere else...

 

I threw in Wacha, because I know there are a few miserable fans here just dying to cite stats again to show why he'd be such a detriment to Boston's stellar Starting Five.

[Hugh2]

I look at the latest news as a continuation of a long line of Sox Suckitude: Red Sox losing, Betts to LA, Schwarber to Philly, ERod to Detroit, Bogaerts to SD, Eovaldi to Texas, Turner to Tor, Wacha to anywhere else...

 

I threw in Wacha, because I know there are a few miserable fans here just dying to cite stats again to show why he'd be such a detriment to Boston's stellar Starting Five.

 

Are those guys even in the same stratosphere though? Failing to secure Betts might be the blunder of the millenium. But was losing Schwwarber to Philly and Erod to Detroit really that bad? or does it just look bad because they didn't make any moves to really replace those guys.

 

Most would agree LA is a more competent ownership group, they lost Turner to Boston. Turner is 39, I have no problem grabbing your poker chips and leaving the table, what I take issue with is walking out before you'd really tried to hit it big.

 

 

I bet John Henry only plays at the $5 black jack table.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Are those guys even in the same stratosphere though? Failing to secure Betts might be the blunder of the millenium. But was losing Schwwarber to Philly and Erod to Detroit really that bad? or does it just look bad because they didn't make any moves to really replace those guys.

Most would agree LA is a more competent ownership group, they lost Turner to Boston. Turner is 39, I have no problem grabbing your poker chips and leaving the table, what I take issue with is walking out before you'd really tried to hit it big.

 

 

I bet John Henry only plays at the $5 black jack table.

 

This is it, Hugh -- you just summed up the past five Red Sox years in one sentence -- except for one verb:

 

it IS bad because they didn't make any moves to really replace those guys.

[moonslav59]

I look at the latest news as a continuation of a long line of Sox Suckitude: Red Sox losing, Betts to LA, Schwarber to Philly, ERod to Detroit, Bogaerts to SD, Eovaldi to Texas, Turner to Tor, Wacha to anywhere else...

 

I threw in Wacha, because I know there are a few miserable fans here just dying to cite stats again to show why he'd be such a detriment to Boston's stellar Starting Five.

 

There has been a long line of one year deals, since the Bogey, Sale & Nate signing/extensions.

 

Only 3 have been longer than 2 years: Whitlock, Story & Yoshida:

Kike $14M/2 (brought back for $10M/1)

Sawamura $3M/2 w option (gone before year 3)

Barnes extension $18.8M/2 w option (gone before year 3)

Diekman $8M/2 (gone before year 2)

 

1 year plus option

Martin Perez (re-signed for 1 more w option that was declined)

Moreland (traded before year 2)

Garrett (team declined option)

Andriese (team declined option)

Paxton (Paxton took 2nd year option)

[notin]

I look at the latest news as a continuation of a long line of Sox Suckitude: Red Sox losing, Betts to LA, Schwarber to Philly, ERod to Detroit, Bogaerts to SD, Eovaldi to Texas, Turner to Tor, Wacha to anywhere else...

 

I threw in Wacha, because I know there are a few miserable fans here just dying to cite stats again to show why he'd be such a detriment to Boston's stellar Starting Five.

 

Also, hindsight.

 

If your definition of a big loss is losing out on Michael Wacha, who has obviously been so dominant in his recent years that all the highly competitive teams in dire need of his clearly elite services couldn’t outbid the Royals.

 

This might qualify as list padding. I’m surprised Mitch Moreland wasn’t mentioned…

[Bellhorn04]

Also, hindsight.

 

If your definition of a big loss is losing out on Michael Wacha, who has obviously been so dominant in his recent years that all the highly competitive teams in dire need of his clearly elite services couldn’t outbid the Royals.

 

This might qualify as list padding. I’m surprised Mitch Moreland wasn’t mentioned…

 

Wacha is no stud, but the fact the Red Sox current rotation is full of guys who posted 4-5 ERA's last year makes him look better.

[Old Red]

Also, hindsight.

 

If your definition of a big loss is losing out on Michael Wacha, who has obviously been so dominant in his recent years that all the highly competitive teams in dire need of his clearly elite services couldn’t outbid the Royals.

 

This might qualify as list padding. I’m surprised Mitch Moreland wasn’t mentioned…

 

I’m surprised you didn’t want to bring JBJ back out of retirement, or pine for Gallo again for the OF. Wacha was much more serviceable.

[Hugh2]

This is it, Hugh -- you just summed up the past five Red Sox years in one sentence -- except for one verb:

 

it IS bad because they didn't make any moves to really replace those guys.

 

Absolutely. I just personally don't see it a blunder not resigning a guy like Schwarber, Erod, or Turner.

 

No one ever says the Sox lost Cody Ross to Arizona or Scott Atchison to NYM, but they also went out and got Shane Victorino and Koji Uehara and won a world series the next year.

 

Players are replaceable, with the exception of guys like Betts.....who are much much harder to replace. But finding a Schwarber or an Erod is not very hard at all. Sox just don't want to invest in those guys and the guys they have invested in to replace them have largely been lackluster.

 

If Kluber came in here and pitched like he had something left in the tank, Whitlock stayed healthy and pitched well, Jeter Down panned out and took over SS, and Yoshida was better on defense and didn't tail off at the of the year with the bat how much better might the 2023 team looked?

 

Sox made all the right moves, in terms of trying to fill holes, they just made the WRONG right moves. Is that cheapness? faulty player evaluation? bad coaching? or just bad luck? Probably all 4, but when you can consistently do a few of those things right you can cover up for a bad signing here and there, a bad trade, a bad draft etc etc etc.

 

The only bright spot today compared to 4 years ago is the farm is better, and honestly, 3/4 last place finishes and no real big trades in a long time should render a better farm system than just middle of the pack.

 

Sox have a lot of work to do.

[mvp 78]

That’s why I greatly prefer Duvall over Soler…

 

I would sign Duvall and play him in LF. Push Masa to DH for the majority of this starts. I think that fixes most of the OF defensive woes.

 

I know Duvall has played most of his career in CF and RF but I think he's slowing down a bit at his age and Fenway may be a little too big for him in RF.

[mvp 78]

But on the bright side, maybe it distracts us from the woeful corner INF defense…

 

Casas will be better IMO. Devers will be about the same. It just got magnified because of how horrible SS and 2B was as well.

[Bellhorn04]

Absolutely. I just personally don't see it a blunder not resigning a guy like Schwarber, Erod, or Turner.

 

No one ever says the Sox lost Cody Ross to Arizona or Scott Atchison to NYM, but they also went out and got Shane Victorino and Koji Uehara and won a world series the next year.

 

Players are replaceable, with the exception of guys like Betts.....who are much much harder to replace. But finding a Schwarber or an Erod is not very hard at all. Sox just don't want to invest in those guys and the guys they have invested in to replace them have largely been lackluster.

 

If Kluber came in here and pitched like he had something left in the tank, Whitlock stayed healthy and pitched well, Jeter Down panned out and took over SS, and Yoshida was better on defense and didn't tail off at the of the year with the bat how much better might the 2023 team looked?

 

Sox made all the right moves, in terms of trying to fill holes, they just made the WRONG right moves. Is that cheapness? faulty player evaluation? bad coaching? or just bad luck? Probably all 4, but when you can consistently do a few of those things right you can cover up for a bad signing here and there, a bad trade, a bad draft etc etc etc.

 

Personally I think it's mind-boggling that in Bloom's 4 seasons, the biggest contract we gave to a starting pitcher was $10 million.

 

Not sure I'll ever get over that one.

[mvp 78]

Also, hindsight.

 

If your definition of a big loss is losing out on Michael Wacha, who has obviously been so dominant in his recent years that all the highly competitive teams in dire need of his clearly elite services couldn’t outbid the Royals.

 

This might qualify as list padding. I’m surprised Mitch Moreland wasn’t mentioned…

 

Wacha and Turner shouldn't be counted on any list as "losing out" on guys. Both were fine enough, but...

 

Betts is tier 1.

 

Bogey is tier 2 (mainly because of the guy above him).

 

ERod, Eovaldi are tier 3.

 

Schwarber, Turner, Wacha and everyone else is tier 4 and below.

[Old Red]

Personally I think it's mind-boggling that in Bloom's 4 seasons, the biggest contract we gave to a starting pitcher was $10 million.

 

Not sure I'll ever get over that one.

He went for the big bats like Story Land, and Yoshida.

[notin]

I’m surprised you didn’t want to bring JBJ back out of retirement, or pine for Gallo again for the OF. Wacha was much more serviceable.

 

Bradley and Gallo are two of the best defensive outfielders in MLB. Platers shouldn’t be evaluated solely by batting average, RBIs and errors.I had no problem getting either one.

 

Of course, I also haven’t initiated a single post about what a horrible mistake the FO made by not acquiring either one. And I certainly only lump either one in a list of mistakes that includes Betts…

[notin]

Personally I think it's mind-boggling that in Bloom's 4 seasons, the biggest contract we gave to a starting pitcher was $10 million.

 

Not sure I'll ever get over that one.

 

I’m not sure you ever will either. But I might settle for going a week without posting it…

[mvp 78]

Personally I think it's mind-boggling that in Bloom's 4 seasons, the biggest contract we gave to a starting pitcher was $10 million.

 

Not sure I'll ever get over that one.

 

There weren't any guys on the FA market that were worth the contract over that time.

 

2020 - Cole/Strasburg/Wheeler/Ryu/Keuchel/Hamels/Gibson/Gausman - couldn't spend!

2021 - Bauer/Stroman/Morton/Smyly/Kluber - bad class!

2022 - Scherzer/Verlander/Stroman/Ray/Gausman/ERod - mix of old guys and guys Sox don't value enough

2023 - Verlander/deGrom/Rodon/Bassitt/Kershaw/Taillon/Walker/Eovaldi/Eflin/Clevinger - went over in '22, can't go over again!!!

[mvp 78]

Bradley and Gallo are two of the best defensive outfielders in MLB. Platers shouldn’t be evaluated solely by batting average, RBIs and errors.I had no problem getting either one.

 

Of course, I also haven’t initiated a single post about what a horrible mistake the FO made by not acquiring either one. And I certainly only lump either one in a list of mistakes that includes Betts…

 

Gallo has been a below average fielder the past two seasons.

[Bellhorn04]

I’m not sure you ever will either. But I might settle for going a week without posting it…

 

You're only giving me incentive to say it more...

[notin]

He went for the big bats like Story Land, and Yoshida.

 

Story’s bat was always in question, but his defense never was…

[Bellhorn04]

There weren't any guys on the FA market that were worth the contract over that time.

 

2020 - Cole/Strasburg/Wheeler/Ryu/Keuchel/Hamels/Gibson/Gausman - couldn't spend!

2021 - Bauer/Stroman/Morton/Smyly/Kluber - bad class!

2022 - Scherzer/Verlander/Stroman/Ray/Gausman/ERod - mix of old guys and guys Sox don't value enough

2023 - Verlander/deGrom/Rodon/Bassitt/Kershaw/Taillon/Walker/Eovaldi/Eflin/Clevinger - went over in '22, can't go over again!!!

 

The 2024 list will be sizable as well.

[notin]

You're only giving me incentive to say it more...

 

Yes. Give in to the Dark Side. Release your anger!! Only your hatred can destroy me!

[mvp 78]

The 2024 list will be sizable as well.

 

"Look, we just didn't trust Crag to take the keys to the car yet unsupervised!!! He needs a few more years before we can let him do anything of note and then tie him to a tree at the rest area on the Mass Pike and drive away."