Red Sox: Off Season '23-'24

[notin]

Gallo has been a below average fielder the past two seasons.

 

And that happened since I wanted him.

 

However, his numbers in Minnesota are definitely influenced by inconsistent playing time and position…

[Old Red]

Story’s bat was always in question, but his defense never was…

 

Never was? He couldn’t throw in 2021, and there was most likely surgery in his future like Bagwell, and Biggio predicted, but they signed him anyway.

[Old Red]

And that happened since I wanted him.

 

However, his numbers in Minnesota are definitely influenced by inconsistent playing time and position…

Just like JBJ’s lack of hitting was due to facing different pitchers in a different park in a different league when he went to Milwaukee. Bad part was he couldn’t hit when he came back to Boston either. Must have been going to a different park in a different league facing different pitchers again. More than a head scratcher.

[mvp 78]

And that happened since I wanted him.

 

However, his numbers in Minnesota are definitely influenced by inconsistent playing time and position…

 

Also has to do with his decreased mobility.

 

Sprint speed:

'19 - 70th percentile

'20 - 58th percentile

'21 - 59th percentile

'22 - 46th percentile

'23 - 31st percentile

 

Dude is just getting old.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Sox made all the right moves, in terms of trying to fill holes, they just made the WRONG right moves. Is that cheapness? faulty player evaluation? bad coaching? or just bad luck? Probably all 4, but when you can consistently do a few of those things right you can cover up for a bad signing here and there, a bad trade, a bad draft etc etc etc.

 

 

None of us can ever know for sure if they're not trying to improve, but it's fairly obvious they arrogantly disagree with winners of the industry that accept the adage "you get what you pay for."

 

That could be a frugal business model, but stubbornly refusing to keep most of your top talent or replace it by spending budget (and taxes) or prospect capital just keeps leading to failure.

 

Don't worry, we have the Romdawg. The worst part is that no one really thinks Gonzalez is good, only that if a regular goes on the IL, it'll be better to bring up Gonzo, instead an actual future star from the minors who the Sox will have to get rid of a year earlier when the guy is about to hit free agency.

[mvp 78]

Never was? He couldn’t throw in 2021, and there was most likely surgery in his future like Bagwell, and Biggio predicted, but they signed him anyway.

 

Good news is that his arm strength in '23 was almost to where it was in '20 before he was injured. He's never had a gun over there, but he's a solid fielder.

 

Wasted 2 years on this signing though. Didn't make a lot of sense at the time since there was a known injury that I mentioned over and over again...

[mvp 78]

None of us can ever know for sure if they're not trying to improve, but it's fairly obvious they arrogantly disagree with winners of the industry that accept the adage "you get what you pay for."

 

That could be a frugal business model, but stubbornly refusing to keep most of your top talent or replace it by spending budget (and taxes) or prospect capital just keeps leading to failure.

 

Don't worry, we have the Romdawg. The worst part is that no one really thinks Gonzalez is good, only that if a regular goes on the IL, it'll be better to bring up Gonzo, instead an actual future star from the minors who the Sox will have to get rid of a year earlier when the guy is about to hit free agency.

 

Actually, you sir are A LIAR! You are not allowed to say they aren't trying!

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Actually, you sir are A LIAR! You are not allowed to say they aren't trying!

 

You the fibber for calling me sir. At a young age I was benighted by Alfred E. Newman, and ever since have known National Lampoon as a patriotic eel.

[Old Red]

Actually, you sir are A LIAR! You are not allowed to say they aren't trying!

 

Liar? Sam had to step in for Bloom this year, and LIAR sounded better than being AWESOME.

[mvp 78]

Liar? Sam had to step in for Bloom this year, and LIAR sounded better than being AWESOME.

 

Are you saying that Bloom was A LIAR about it not being AWESOME? I'm going to have to revoke your Red Sox Nation TM citizenship!

[mvp 78]

You the fibber for calling me sir. At a young age I was benighted by Alfred E. Newman, and ever since have known National Lampoon as a patriotic eel.

 

This is the grossest thing I've seen since Sox Appeal.

[moonslav59]

Absolutely. I just personally don't see it a blunder not resigning a guy like Schwarber, Erod, or Turner.

 

No one ever says the Sox lost Cody Ross to Arizona or Scott Atchison to NYM, but they also went out and got Shane Victorino and Koji Uehara and won a world series the next year.

 

Players are replaceable, with the exception of guys like Betts.....who are much much harder to replace. But finding a Schwarber or an Erod is not very hard at all. Sox just don't want to invest in those guys and the guys they have invested in to replace them have largely been lackluster.

 

If Kluber came in here and pitched like he had something left in the tank, Whitlock stayed healthy and pitched well, Jeter Down panned out and took over SS, and Yoshida was better on defense and didn't tail off at the of the year with the bat how much better might the 2023 team looked?

 

Sox made all the right moves, in terms of trying to fill holes, they just made the WRONG right moves. Is that cheapness? faulty player evaluation? bad coaching? or just bad luck? Probably all 4, but when you can consistently do a few of those things right you can cover up for a bad signing here and there, a bad trade, a bad draft etc etc etc.

 

The only bright spot today compared to 4 years ago is the farm is better, and honestly, 3/4 last place finishes and no real big trades in a long time should render a better farm system than just middle of the pack.

 

Sox have a lot of work to do.

 

One strong argument for not extending Betts and for dumping half-Price was the idea that we could maybe spend that money on 3-5 players that could come close to what we lost.

 

We spent only a fraction of that money, as well as not spending the Porcello money lost. (BTW, nobody is complaining about not extending him, either.)

[moonslav59]

I would sign Duvall and play him in LF. Push Masa to DH for the majority of this starts. I think that fixes most of the OF defensive woes.

 

I know Duvall has played most of his career in CF and RF but I think he's slowing down a bit at his age and Fenway may be a little too big for him in RF.

 

You prefer O'Neill in RF over Duvall?

 

(It's a close call, to me.)

 

I just hate pushing Duran to CF, FT.

[moonslav59]

Personally I think it's mind-boggling that in Bloom's 4 seasons, the biggest contract we gave to a starting pitcher was $10 million.

 

Not sure I'll ever get over that one.

 

If he hadn't signed Story to $140M and spent over $100M on Yoshida, it would be more understandable, at least for the last 2 seasons.

 

I do wonder if the top brass was against signing any pitchers to 2 or more years and more than $10M per year, until Gio.

 

[Old Red]

One strong argument for not extending Betts and for dumping half-Price was the idea that we could maybe spend that money on 3-5 players that could come close to what we lost.

 

We spent only a fraction of that money, as well as not spending the Porcello money lost. (BTW, nobody is complaining about not extending him, either.)

 

There is NO strong argument for not wanting to sign Betts. If Betts would have signed with Boston if everything was equal is still an unanswered question.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

There is NO strong argument for not wanting to sign Betts. If Betts would have signed with Boston if everything was equal is still an unanswered question.

 

I got some answers right here: even if they kept Betts and couldn't sign other talent (as if), it would've been better for fans.

 

Because we all know now the Sox weren't going to reinvest all that Mookie money replacing him with other star players anyway.

[notin]

Never was? He couldn’t throw in 2021, and there was most likely surgery in his future like Bagwell, and Biggio predicted, but they signed him anyway.

 

They ignored the medical opinions of both Bagwell and Biggio!?!!? And probably relied on an actual doctor exam, huh? What were they thinking? I mean, they should have at least brought in Chipper Jones for a second opinion.

 

Story also played 2b in 2022, and was absolutely outstanding there defensively. His missed time that season was from an unrelated HBP…

[mvp 78]

You prefer O'Neill in RF over Duvall?

 

(It's a close call, to me.)

 

I just hate pushing Duran to CF, FT.

 

From the defensive metrics, I'd never play Duvall in CF again. He's getting older everyday. I think you could save him by putting him in LF.

[mvp 78]

If he hadn't signed Story to $140M and spent over $100M on Yoshida, it would be more understandable, at least for the last 2 seasons.

 

I do wonder if the top brass was against signing any pitchers to 2 or more years and more than $10M per year, until Gio.

 

 

They had offers on the table for Eovaldi and Eflin that were more than 10M.

[mvp 78]

I got some answers right here: even if they kept Betts and couldn't sign other talent (as if), it would've been better for fans.

 

Because we all know now the Sox weren't going to reinvest all that Mookie money replacing him with other star players anyway.

 

Keep Betts and Raffy. Don't sign Story and Masa. They'd be a better team right now.

[mvp 78]

They ignored the medical opinions of both Bagwell and Biggio!?!!? And probably relied on an actual doctor exam, huh? What were they thinking? I mean, they should have at least brought in Chipper Jones for a second opinion.

 

Story also played 2b in 2022, and was absolutely outstanding there defensively. His missed time that season was from an unrelated HBP…

 

And then what happened?

[Hugh2]

None of us can ever know for sure if they're not trying to improve, but it's fairly obvious they arrogantly disagree with winners of the industry that accept the adage "you get what you pay for."

 

That could be a frugal business model, but stubbornly refusing to keep most of your top talent or replace it by spending budget (and taxes) or prospect capital just keeps leading to failure.

 

Don't worry, we have the Romdawg. The worst part is that no one really thinks Gonzalez is good, only that if a regular goes on the IL, it'll be better to bring up Gonzo, instead an actual future star from the minors who the Sox will have to get rid of a year earlier when the guy is about to hit free agency.

 

This is what all teams do. Unless Anthony or Mayer have 200 at bats in AAA and are tearing the cover off the ball, calling up AAA depth is the same move any team would make.

 

And the teams that do the opposite, and rush players often aren't exactly model franchises.

[Old Red]

They ignored the medical opinions of both Bagwell and Biggio!?!!? And probably relied on an actual doctor exam, huh? What were they thinking? I mean, they should have at least brought in Chipper Jones for a second opinion.

 

Story also played 2b in 2022, and was absolutely outstanding there defensively. His missed time that season was from an unrelated HBP…

Bagwell, and Biggio turned out to be right didn’t they?While neither are a MD they both knew a thing, or two about throwing arms, and elbows. Story was ramping up his throwing to play SS before last season, and that’s when he hurt again, which most likely would have happened if he had played SS in 2022.

[moonslav59]

From the defensive metrics, I'd never play Duvall in CF again. He's getting older everyday. I think you could save him by putting him in LF.

 

Agreed.

 

I asked about RF.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

They ignored the medical opinions of both Bagwell and Biggio!?!!? And probably relied on an actual doctor exam, huh? What were they thinking? I mean, they should have at least brought in Chipper Jones for a second opinion.

 

Story also played 2b in 2022, and was absolutely outstanding there defensively. His missed time that season was from an unrelated HBP…

 

Story's elbow was damaged goods when Bloom signed him, only after all the other GMs stayed away, like they did with Wacha (who smart teams saved millions on instead by using openers for two dozen games a year).

[moonslav59]

Keep Betts and Raffy. Don't sign Story and Masa. They'd be a better team right now.

 

No doubt.

 

Keeping Betts and the same 2020 budget, would have meant dumping what salary?

 

(Sale, in hindsight, of course.)

[Old Red]

Keep Betts and Raffy. Don't sign Story and Masa. They'd be a better team right now.

 

That’s what I keep saying. Betts, Raffy, and Bogey should be the foundation now, and then added to that.

[mvp 78]

Agreed.

 

I asked about RF.

 

I feel the same about RF bucko. You save him by playing him in LF. RF in Fenway is like playing CF.

[moonslav59]

They had offers on the table for Eovaldi and Eflin that were more than 10M.

 

Good point.

 

We also know, Nate would have taken the deal Bloom first offered, so that was a huge mistake.

 

The Eflin deal seems like one we could have bid up to the point where the Rays moved on, or where Eflin gave up on his like for living near TB.

 

We could have had nate and Eflin for the total Story money.

 

What makes it worse is, they'd still be on our roster, now!

[mvp 78]

No doubt.

 

Keeping Betts and the same 2020 budget, would have meant dumping what salary?

 

(Sale, in hindsight, of course.)

 

Trade 1/2 Price. Trade Sale.