Red Sox: Off Season '23-'24

[Hitch]

People were saying prior to the offseason that it was a great FA class for the Sox to need pitching. Is that not the case?

 

Were they? I don't think we ever had a chance at Yamomoto. So it was led by Snell and Monty, two pitchers I'd have no issue with not being on the Sox. And apart from Gray not many seem to have any issue missing out on the others so far.

[Larry Cook]

The quantity hasn't given them too much in recent years. We'll see how things change under Crag.

 

Does bres-slow adopt the same strategy as the rays going forward?????

[mvp 78]

Would you do Snell at something like 3 years $110?

 

A lot more noise coming out about him not having much chance at the numbers he wants, so maybe go shorter and higher.

 

For even higher AAV? No. They aren't going to compete this season so it seems like a little waste. If Henry is ok with going over the CBT in the next few years, then maybe.

[mvp 78]

Were they? I don't think we ever had a chance at Yamomoto. So it was led by Snell and Monty, two pitchers I'd have no issue with not being on the Sox. And apart from Gray not many seem to have any issue missing out on the others so far.

 

We were hopeful they had a chance. Sox have the room under the 2nd CBT line. Ownership is just being spendthrifty.

[moonslav59]

Yup. That's what happens if you have a #3 starter as your best pitcher.

 

Indeed.

 

Even when we had Nate, ERod and Sale, we were never sure, if they would give us a full season of #1-#2 pitching. Nate did fine, but he missed some starts. (35 out of a possible 110 from '19-'22) The 5.99 ERA in 2019 was not impressive, as well. ERod did well one year, missed 2020 and did not do well in '21. Sale was hardly around.

 

Our top SP'ers by GS since 2019:

 

2019 (ERA as SP'er only)

34 ERod 3.81

32 Porcello 5.52

25 C Sale 4.40

22 Price 4.28

12 Nate 6.13

8 Velazquez 6.95, 7 B Johnson 5.09, 6 Cashner 8.01, 5 Chacin 7.90

 

2020 (60 game season)

12 Perez 4.50

9 Nate 3.72

7 Godley 9.49

6 Mazza 5.01

5 Weber 7.11

4 Brewer 6.91, 3 Houck 0.53, 3 Hart 13.00

 

2021

32 Nate 3.75

31 ERod 4.77

30 Pivetta 4.56

22 Perez 4.77

22 Richards 5.22

13 Houck 3.68, 9 Sale 3.19

 

2022 (4.49 SP ERA was exact same as 2021.)

33 Pivetta 4.56

26 R Hill 4.27

23 Wacha 3.32

20 Nate 3.87

14 Wink 5.75, 12 Crawford 5.43, 11 Bello 4.15, 9 Whitlock 4.15

 

2023 (4.68 ERA)

28 Bello 4.24

23 Crawford 4.51

21 Houck 5.01

20 Sale 4.30

19 Paxton 4.50, 16 Pivetta 4.66, 10 Whitlock 5.23

(Interesting to note that 5 of our top starters by GS finished with an ERA better than the rotation as a whole. Houck, Whitlock and the scrubs were the main reason for a worse SP ERA than 2021 and 2022.)

 

The team had a 4.49 ERA in '21 and '22:

106 GS:

4.24 Bello

4.30 Sale

4.50 Paxton

4.51 Crawford

4.66 Pivetta

 

 

 

Edited January 15, 2024 by moonslav59

[mvp 78]

Does bres-slow adopt the same strategy as the rays going forward?????

 

Rays Way with Bloom didn't work.

 

Crag is looking to find the Sox version of Justin Steele.

[Hitch]

We were hopeful they had a chance. Sox have the room under the 2nd CBT line. Ownership is just being spendthrifty.

 

For Yamamoto? I was hopeful very early on. As soon as the Dodgers got Ohtani, I thought it was over. We could have offered another $20/30/40m more and he would still have joined them. Which is what happens when you build a team primed to win.

[mvp 78]

For Yamamoto? I was hopeful very early on. As soon as the Dodgers got Ohtani, I thought it was over. We could have offered another $20/30/40m more and he would still have joined them. Which is what happens when you build a team primed to win.

 

Dodgers are built to win today. 4 years from now?

[Hitch]

Dodgers are built to win today. 4 years from now?

 

Impossible to know who'll be in the right place to win in 4 years, but we know who is for the foreseeable. If you're in Yamamoto's shoes you pick the Dodgers if you want to win.

[Old Red]

Dodgers are built to win today. 4 years from now?

 

Would you rather be the Dodgers right now all primed to win now, or the Red Sox hoping to be better 4 years from now? I’m not thinking about 4 years from now for the Dodgers, or the Red Sox.

[Bellhorn04]

Were they? I don't think we ever had a chance at Yamomoto. So it was led by Snell and Monty, two pitchers I'd have no issue with not being on the Sox. And apart from Gray not many seem to have any issue missing out on the others so far.

 

Gray

E-Rod

Imanaga seemed interesting at the price

 

There's been a lot of Goldilocks/sour grapes going on. At the start of FA season it seemed like there were plenty of worthwhile targets.

 

If we thought we were in on Snell or Montgomery we'd feel differently.

 

You're saying you're fine with them not being on the Sox, but they're much better than anything we have. When people say things like that I just don't get it.

[moonslav59]

Gray

E-Rod

Imanaga seemed interesting at the price

 

There's been a lot of Goldilocks/sour grapes going on. At the start of FA season it seemed like there were plenty of worthwhile targets.

 

If we thought we were in on Snell or Montgomery we'd feel differently.

 

You're saying you're fine with them not being on the Sox, but they're much better than anything we have. When people say things like that I just don't get it.

 

I like your list, too.

 

I think Lugo would have been a good gamble at $15M x 3.

 

The better than nothing category:

Stroman $18.5M x 2

M Wacha $16M x 2

Maybe Montas at $14M x 1 (I might prefer Paxton at $10M x 1)

[mvp 78]

Impossible to know who'll be in the right place to win in 4 years, but we know who is for the foreseeable. If you're in Yamamoto's shoes you pick the Dodgers if you want to win.

 

If I'm getting paid 50M more I'll consider the long term.

[notin]

Rays Way with Bloom didn't work.

 

Crag is looking to find the Sox version of Justin Steele.

 

He’s getting close with Justin Slate(n)

 

He probably needs to be aiming for harder materials. Like Justin Iron or Justin Diamond. Or the hardest of all - Justin Calculus II…

[moonslav59]

The 2024 Roster Additions:

 

SP Giolito

OF O'Neill

2B Grissom

RP Slaten

SP/RP Fitts (AAA)

RP Campbell (AAA)

RP Weissert (AAA)

SP Max Castillo (AAA)

RP Criswell (AAA)

RP W Mills (AAA)

RP Judice (low minors)

RP Jorge Benitez & Helcris Olivares (MilB FA in AA)

 

In system moves:

Mata is out of options

Wikelman & Perales added to 40 to avoid Rule 5.

 

[Hitch]

Gray

E-Rod

Imanaga seemed interesting at the price

 

There's been a lot of Goldilocks/sour grapes going on. At the start of FA season it seemed like there were plenty of worthwhile targets.

 

If we thought we were in on Snell or Montgomery we'd feel differently.

 

You're saying you're fine with them not being on the Sox, but they're much better than anything we have. When people say things like that I just don't get it.

 

E-Rod wasn't coming back here. Imanaga might have been okay maybe. But he's proven nothing and is a big question mark.

 

Because I don't think they'll be good investments. I don't want us to be slightly better for just a year or so and then be stuck with a bitch of a contract that'll give us less chance of sustained success.

[Bellhorn04]

E-Rod wasn't coming back here.

 

Based on what?

[Bellhorn04]

Pitchers are risky investments, period. We're no good at drafting and developing them, so we have to sign them or trade for them.

[Hugh2]

Pitchers are risky investments, period. We're no good at drafting and developing them, so we have to sign them or trade for them.

 

Or we could become better at drafting and developing pitchers. Kind of like the Dodgers, they spend the money, but they develop guys too.

[Bellhorn04]

Or we could become better at drafting and developing pitchers. Kind of like the Dodgers, they spend the money, but they develop guys too.

 

Sounds good to me.

[Hugh2]

Sounds good to me.

 

Unfortunately neither of us work in the front office. I’ll be patient with Breslow, because that’s the hand we are dealt and he’s obviously not being given the green light to sign pitchers.

 

He does have a track record of improving pitching staffs and we haven’t even given him one draft yet.

[Duran Is The Man]

Gray

E-Rod

Imanaga seemed interesting at the price

 

There's been a lot of Goldilocks/sour grapes going on. At the start of FA season it seemed like there were plenty of worthwhile targets.

 

If we thought we were in on Snell or Montgomery we'd feel differently.

 

You're saying you're fine with them not being on the Sox, but they're much better than anything we have. When people say things like that I just don't get it.

 

he sounds like a front office apologist. they could lose a hundred games for the next twenty years and it would always be someone's fault that they suck.

[moonslav59]

he sounds like a front office apologist. they could lose a hundred games for the next twenty years and it would always be someone's fault that they suck.

 

Bell is saying he thinks we should have added Gray or others.

 

He is saying he is not fine with people that are okay on us not signing any of the guys he wanted.

 

How is that being a FO apologist?

[Bellhorn04]

Bell is saying he thinks we should have added Gray or others.

 

He is saying he is not fine with people that are okay on us not signing any of the guys he wanted.

 

How is that being a FO apologist?

 

He means Hitch.

 

To each their own, of course.

[moonslav59]

I wonder what offers were discussed for Yoshida and how much we were expected to pay/save.

 

(Jansen, too.)

[Larry Cook]

I wonder what offers were discussed for Yoshida and how much we were expected to pay/save.

 

(Jansen, too.)

 

Does Miami need both a closer and a DH? That could be the start of a monster trade for a decent starting pitcher

[moonslav59]

Does Miami need both a closer and a DH? That could be the start of a monster trade for a decent starting pitcher

 

I read somewhere they might take Yoshida, if we paid a ton.

 

They would not want to pay for Jansen.

 

We'd have to pay a lot of money to get them to take both Yoshi and Jansen.

 

That goes against the idea of us trading Jansen and Yoshi, but I get your idea.

 

If we could get a SP'er by doing this, it might be worth it.

 

BTV accepted this wild trade:

 

Yoshida (+$50M)

Jansen

Houck

Rafaela

Mata

 

for

 

Garrett (5 yrs)

AJ Puk (3 yrs)

 

Edited January 16, 2024 by moonslav59

[jad]

he sounds like a front office apologist. they could lose a hundred games for the next twenty years and it would always be someone's fault that they suck.

 

I believe Inquiring Minds now need to know who "he" refers to in your last sentence! I was going to guess Breslow ... but I see that's not right.

[notin]

Why would the Sox trade Yoshida?

 

His first year was rough, but this exactly uncommon for Japanese players coming to the US. Seiya Suzuki’s first year was pretty mediocre as well.

 

Not to mention, why were the Sox trying to replace Yoshida’s OPS+ of 109 with Teoscar Hernandez’ OPS+ of 106?

 

The Sox need a high ONP bat on their lineup. Actually they need several. Let’s not get rid of the one we have with that kind of potential…

[moonslav59]

Why would the Sox trade Yoshida?

 

His first year was rough, but this exactly uncommon for Japanese players coming to the US. Seiya Suzuki’s first year was pretty mediocre as well.

 

Not to mention, why were the Sox trying to replace Yoshida’s OPS+ of 109 with Teoscar Hernandez’ OPS+ of 106?

 

The Sox need a high ONP bat on their lineup. Actually they need several. Let’s not get rid of the one we have with that kind of potential…

 

There were reports the Sox were looking at trading Yoshida to free up money for FA signing.

 

If it meant we could sign someone like Monty, I can see the merit.

 

If it frees up enough to sign Paxton, then no.