Red Sox: Off Season '23-'24

[Larry Cook]

I read somewhere they might take Yoshida, if we paid a ton.

 

They would not want to pay for Jansen.

 

We'd have to pay a lot of money to get them to take both Yoshi and Jansen.

 

That goes against the idea of us trading Jansen and Yoshi, but I get your idea.

 

If we could get a SP'er by doing this, it might be worth it.

 

BTV accepted this wild trade:

 

Yoshida (+$50M)

Jansen

Houck

Rafaela

Mata

 

for

 

Garrett (5 yrs)

AJ Puk (3 yrs)

 

 

I would take this deal all day and I would even throw in 10 million of Jansen.

[Larry Cook]

Why would the Sox trade Yoshida?

 

His first year was rough, but this exactly uncommon for Japanese players coming to the US. Seiya Suzuki’s first year was pretty mediocre as well.

 

Not to mention, why were the Sox trying to replace Yoshida’s OPS+ of 109 with Teoscar Hernandez’ OPS+ of 106?

 

The Sox need a high ONP bat on their lineup. Actually they need several. Let’s not get rid of the one we have with that kind of potential…

 

We have a surplus of DH/poor defensive players. Might as well move one or two for pitchers.

[moonslav59]

I would take this deal all day and I would even throw in 10 million of Jansen.

 

I'd do it without Puk.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

We have a surplus of DH/poor defensive players. Might as well move one or two for pitchers.

 

I'd keep Rafaela because elite defenders are rare, especially in Boston these days.

 

If your pitching sucks and you won't upgrade personnel, the best way to help improve it is with good defense.

[Hitch]

he sounds like a front office apologist. they could lose a hundred games for the next twenty years and it would always be someone's fault that they suck.

 

Aww.

 

*ruffles hair*

[Hitch]

If I'm getting paid 50M more I'll consider the long term.

 

If your desire is to win. You pick the team that looks certain to be favourite to win it for the next 3 years, over having to guess who might win it in year 4 onwards. Yamamoto is obviously in that camp as he didn't give the Mets a chance to up the Dodgers last offer.

[Hitch]

Based on what?

 

Didn't Cora fall out with E-Rod? I may have this wrong, but I'm almost certain I read a few articles from the usual suspects saying they relationship was no longer in a good place.

 

Aside from this, does it give you no pause whatsoever, that despite many teams needing a lot of help, Snell, Monty and the majority of free agents are still on the board? Half way through January? Even agreeing on the premise ownership want to win as cheap as possible, does no part of you think - this may not just be a Red Sox/Breslow/Ownership issue?

[Hitch]

I'd keep Rafaela because elite defenders are rare, especially in Boston these days.

 

If your pitching sucks and you won't upgrade personnel, the best way to help improve it is with good defense.

 

I hope we keep Rafaela, too.

[Bellhorn04]

Didn't Cora fall out with E-Rod? I may have this wrong, but I'm almost certain I read a few articles from the usual suspects saying they relationship was no longer in a good place.

 

Aside from this, does it give you no pause whatsoever, that despite many teams needing a lot of help, Snell, Monty and the majority of free agents are still on the board? Half way through January? Even agreeing on the premise ownership want to win as cheap as possible, does no part of you think - this may not just be a Red Sox/Breslow/Ownership issue?

 

-Can't find anything about Cora/E-Rod fallout. Is it supposed to be about the Houston game where Cora got upset with E-Rod for showing up Correa? That was just Cora doing his job and I don't see anything about E-Rod having a problem with it.

 

-I started a thread questioning what's going on with all the unsigned free agents. It's definitely concerning for various reasons.

 

-If the Sox sign Snell or Monty or make a trade for a legit starter the complaining goes away. If they don't, it's a brutal and inexplicable failure. They have the need and they have the money.

[Hitch]

-Can't find anything about Cora/E-Rod fallout. Is it supposed to be about the Houston game where Cora got upset with E-Rod for showing up Correa? That was just Cora doing his job and I don't see anything about E-Rod having a problem with it.

 

-I started a thread questioning what's going on with all the unsigned free agents. It's definitely concerning for various reasons.

 

-If the Sox sign Snell or Monty or make a trade for a legit starter the complaining goes away. If they don't, it's a brutal and inexplicable failure. They have the need and they have the money.

 

No, not that incident. I'll see if I can find anything, I could have sworn that they fell out over something. Maybe I'm remembering wrong.

 

I think the trade for another starter is coming. What would you want the Sox to commit to either Snell or Monty?

[Bellhorn04]

I think the trade for another starter is coming. What would you want the Sox to commit to either Snell or Monty?

 

Tough question, of course. I guess I'd be in on either one of them up to about 175 mill.

 

If Snell or Monty are outrageously overpriced, the trade has to materialize. What dampens the trade prospects is that they have reportedly put the top 3 off limits.

 

If they don't pull the trigger on any of the above, then we come back to why the hell weren't we in on Gray or E-Rod, or what the hell was the strategy coming into the offseason?

 

If they don't pull the trigger they are going to look like lying/incompetent bozos. Just my take, but I have a lot of company based on my travels around Soxdom on the internet.

[notin]

I'd keep Rafaela because elite defenders are rare, especially in Boston these days.

 

If your pitching sucks and you won't upgrade personnel, the best way to help improve it is with good defense.

 

I’ve been saying that all off season, especially to defend each post about Matt “Hey I’m Still Available” Chapman…

[jacksonianmarch]

Sox don't have the impact prospects for a true Pedro type trade right now.

 

I am really perplexed by the Sox direction. They SHOULD have a really solid pen this year if they leave the guys out there that are already there. Heck, they can pawn off Jensen and still have a solid pen

The sox dealt off Sale, who was serviceable last year and brought in Giolito who was an auto-homer last year. And they brought him to a homer prone park to boot which would likely bump up his HR rate

 

Right now, the sox rotation is

 

1. Bello

2. Giolito

3. Pivetta

4. Crawford

5. ???

 

I am sorry, without a serious rebound from Giolito, that rotation is bottom 5. With a rebound from Giolito, it could be below average (20-25 range). The upside just isn't there beyond Bello and Giolito and heck, one body still isn't there right now

 

What I am wondering here is if the sox are either prepping for a sale or they brought in Breslow to try and do a rebuild right. This division is a buzzsaw. The Rays did get weaker dealing off Glasnow, but they are a factory and always seem to find a way. The Yanks got stronger this offseason. The Jays are better. The O's might be in window for a long time. It could be that Henry's edict is to strip payroll and rebuild the team from the ground up the way he had hoped Bloom would do.

 

Remember when I told you guys that 2021 was the worst thing that could have happened to the sox? Yes, you knocked out the Yanks. Yes, you were two wins away from the WS. But what that did was freeze what was supposed to be a rebuild and allowed you to lose a lot of talent without compensation.

[Bellhorn04]

To me, he's a tweener.

 

I get the argument that just about every pitcher looks better as a RP'er han a SP'er, but to me, Crawford would be better used as a RP'er (long man,) as does Whitlock, Houck and maybe even Pivetta.

 

Pivetta looks like the first choice to be in the rotation, to me.

 

With Crawford and Whitlock both in the pen, I feel better with Houck as the SP'er over Crawford, but with the plan to pull him after the first 18 batters.

 

Some numbers:

 

Crawford in 2023

4.51 as SP (108 IP) .706 OPS Against

1.66 as RP (22 IP) .471 OPS Against

(Career: 5.05 to 3.35 and .757 to .592)

 

This bothers me more than those splits:

Yes, he had a horrible first start (7 ER in 4 IP,) and his numbers were decent after that, but he also dropped off, towards the end of the season.

 

He was great in September, no? .571 OPSa

[Bellhorn04]

Sox don't have the impact prospects for a true Pedro type trade right now.

 

I am really perplexed by the Sox direction. They SHOULD have a really solid pen this year if they leave the guys out there that are already there. Heck, they can pawn off Jensen and still have a solid pen

The sox dealt off Sale, who was serviceable last year and brought in Giolito who was an auto-homer last year. And they brought him to a homer prone park to boot which would likely bump up his HR rate

 

Right now, the sox rotation is

 

1. Bello

2. Giolito

3. Pivetta

4. Crawford

5. ???

 

I am sorry, without a serious rebound from Giolito, that rotation is bottom 5. With a rebound from Giolito, it could be below average (20-25 range). The upside just isn't there beyond Bello and Giolito and heck, one body still isn't there right now

 

What I am wondering here is if the sox are either prepping for a sale or they brought in Breslow to try and do a rebuild right. This division is a buzzsaw. The Rays did get weaker dealing off Glasnow, but they are a factory and always seem to find a way. The Yanks got stronger this offseason. The Jays are better. The O's might be in window for a long time. It could be that Henry's edict is to strip payroll and rebuild the team from the ground up the way he had hoped Bloom would do.

 

Remember when I told you guys that 2021 was the worst thing that could have happened to the sox? Yes, you knocked out the Yanks. Yes, you were two wins away from the WS. But what that did was freeze what was supposed to be a rebuild and allowed you to lose a lot of talent without compensation.

 

I agree with most of your post but I disagree about 2021. It's never a bad thing when you come close to the World Series.

 

They could have had the big fire sale in 2022 if they wanted.

 

Like you have said in the past, the worst thing to be is mediocre. The Sox proved that in '22 and '23. Bloom got completely boggled by what to do at the deadline both years.

[notin]

We have a surplus of DH/poor defensive players. Might as well move one or two for pitchers.

 

So you think trading the most expensive and therefore most difficult to move one should be the plan?

 

First of all, his numbers first year in the US had some similarities to those of Hideki Matsui and Seiya Suzuki. He does deserve another chance.

 

Second, unless you’re counting Devers and/or Casas, do the Sox really have a surplus of poor defensive DH types? They have Yoshida and Enmanuel Valdez, who isn’t exactly an essential cog. Who else?

 

Third, if the Sox won’t spend on a pitcher, why do people think they will spend so readily on a player they’re dumping? Covering one year of Sale was one thing; but paying $50mill (plus?) to trade Yoshida doesn’t exactly clear the cash to pay for Snell.

 

Plus who then is DH? Valdez?

[Randy Red Sox]

There were reports the Sox were looking at trading Yoshida to free up money for FA signing.

 

If it meant we could sign someone like Monty, I can see the merit.

 

If it frees up enough to sign Paxton, then no.

 

why do we have to free up ANY MORE money ?

[Bellhorn04]

why do we have to free up ANY MORE money ?

 

We don't. The stories that we have to free up more payroll are ridiculous.

[Hugh2]

We don't. The stories that we have to free up more payroll are ridiculous.

 

Freeing up payroll makes sense if they don't believe in going over the luxury tax in a season in which they do not think they have a legit shot at competing. Honestly, I don't disagree with that, in the long term scope of things and franchise building I want them to have better drafts, and whats the point of losing money to spend in the draft trying to compete for 82 wins?

 

What doesn't make sense to me, is there aren't any free agents out there that would have put them in danger of going over the threshold if they actually wanted to sign them. That story did seem a little eronious to me, as disgusted as I am with the front office, I do think they would spend if the moment was right for them. With that, it seems the thing to do amongst some is to think they just need to spend and sign every free agent to get out of this hole, where's I'm accepting of the fact that they have dug this hole and wouldn't want to frantically make decisions to hurt the franchise long term.

 

- They need to draft and develop pitching.

- They need to become a competitive team again.

- They need to do a better job at locking up their own young talent long term.

- They need to become willing to trade top prospects for the right players.

- They need to be willing to take a gamble on some big name free agents

 

I don't think anyone disagrees with that list, where I think I and others butt heads with others posters is the fact that I believe the first three points should preceed the last two. Otherwise you're just robbing peter to pay paul. I would rather look like LAD than the NYM.

[mvp 78]

I read somewhere they might take Yoshida, if we paid a ton.

 

They would not want to pay for Jansen.

 

We'd have to pay a lot of money to get them to take both Yoshi and Jansen.

 

That goes against the idea of us trading Jansen and Yoshi, but I get your idea.

 

If we could get a SP'er by doing this, it might be worth it.

 

BTV accepted this wild trade:

 

Yoshida (+$50M)

Jansen

Houck

Rafaela

Mata

 

for

 

Garrett (5 yrs)

AJ Puk (3 yrs)

 

 

The Sox are a poor franchise, apparently. We can't afford to pay players to be elsewhere!!!

[mvp 78]

There were reports the Sox were looking at trading Yoshida to free up money for FA signing.

 

If it meant we could sign someone like Monty, I can see the merit.

 

If it frees up enough to sign Paxton, then no.

 

For who? Soler? I'd rather keep Masa. The leftover FA's leave a lot to be desired. Even Bellinger has his share of warts. IDK. If they were dumping Masa so that they could trade for a young ace and extend then ok.

[Bellhorn04]

Freeing up payroll makes sense if they don't believe in going over the luxury tax in a season in which they do not think they have a legit shot at competing. Honestly, I don't disagree with that, in the long term scope of things and franchise building I want them to have better drafts, and whats the point of losing money to spend in the draft trying to compete for 82 wins?

 

What doesn't make sense to me, is there aren't any free agents out there that would have put them in danger of going over the threshold if they actually wanted to sign them. That story did seem a little eronious to me, as disgusted as I am with the front office, I do think they would spend if the moment was right for them. With that, it seems the thing to do amongst some is to think they just need to spend and sign every free agent to get out of this hole, where's I'm accepting of the fact that they have dug this hole and wouldn't want to frantically make decisions to hurt the franchise long term.

 

- They need to draft and develop pitching.

- They need to become a competitive team again.

- They need to do a better job at locking up their own young talent long term.

- They need to become willing to trade top prospects for the right players.

- They need to be willing to take a gamble on some big name free agents

 

I don't think anyone disagrees with that list, where I think I and others butt heads with others posters is the fact that I believe the first three points should preceed the last two. Otherwise you're just robbing peter to pay paul. I would rather look like LAD than the NYM.

 

Becoming better at drafting and developing pitching is an admirable goal, but one that could take a decade to come to fruition, if it comes to fruition at all.

 

It's not about 82 wins, it's about making the playoffs.

 

We just saw a season where a 90 win team beat an 84 win team in the World Series, so the argument that there's no point going for it unless you're a 95 win team should be dead and buried forever.

[Hitch]

Tough question, of course. I guess I'd be in on either one of them up to about 175 mill.

 

If Snell or Monty are outrageously overpriced, the trade has to materialize. What dampens the trade prospects is that they have reportedly put the top 3 off limits.

 

If they don't pull the trigger on any of the above, then we come back to why the hell weren't we in on Gray or E-Rod, or what the hell was the strategy coming into the offseason?

 

If they don't pull the trigger they are going to look like lying/incompetent bozos. Just my take, but I have a lot of company based on my travels around Soxdom on the internet.

 

Oh you're not alone that's for sure. The entire fanbase is spitting feathers, and if they don't make extra moves I'll agree with all of you.

 

If we went that far on Snell, I'd throw up, honestly. Only gone past 120 innings twice in his career. Walking 5 per 9. Giving up 6 hits per game. Anyone that gives him a long term contract is going to regret it hugely.

 

I thought they'd add a starter both by trade and free agency (short term deal here). I think they won't give up the top three because there's no 2016 Chris Sale out there for us right now. Some of the names bandied around come with a certain level of excitement and hope, but there's no absolute killer and so I understand why they aren't willing to sell two of the top prospects either. I'm hopeful (yes still) that we will target a young controllable arm who hasn't quite broken through yet, but the potential is there. And in return we can give up Duran/some of second tier prospects. Grab one of the remaining free agent pitchers and call it a day on that front. I'm also aware, this is far from certain to happen.

 

But absolutely no to Snell.

[mvp 78]

-Can't find anything about Cora/E-Rod fallout. Is it supposed to be about the Houston game where Cora got upset with E-Rod for showing up Correa? That was just Cora doing his job and I don't see anything about E-Rod having a problem with it.

 

-I started a thread questioning what's going on with all the unsigned free agents. It's definitely concerning for various reasons.

 

-If the Sox sign Snell or Monty or make a trade for a legit starter the complaining goes away. If they don't, it's a brutal and inexplicable failure. They have the need and they have the money.

 

Never heard about an ERod/Cora split.

 

I don't see them signing Snell or Monty at all. That's what we've been hearing for a while now. Miserly attitudes in ownership.

[mvp 78]

Sox don't have the impact prospects for a true Pedro type trade right now.

 

This is just wrong. Mayer, Anthony and Teel are impact prospects. Sox just don't want to give them up.

[Hitch]

Freeing up payroll makes sense if they don't believe in going over the luxury tax in a season in which they do not think they have a legit shot at competing. Honestly, I don't disagree with that, in the long term scope of things and franchise building I want them to have better drafts, and whats the point of losing money to spend in the draft trying to compete for 82 wins?

 

What doesn't make sense to me, is there aren't any free agents out there that would have put them in danger of going over the threshold if they actually wanted to sign them. That story did seem a little eronious to me, as disgusted as I am with the front office, I do think they would spend if the moment was right for them. With that, it seems the thing to do amongst some is to think they just need to spend and sign every free agent to get out of this hole, where's I'm accepting of the fact that they have dug this hole and wouldn't want to frantically make decisions to hurt the franchise long term.

 

- They need to draft and develop pitching.

- They need to become a competitive team again.

- They need to do a better job at locking up their own young talent long term.

- They need to become willing to trade top prospects for the right players.

- They need to be willing to take a gamble on some big name free agents

 

I don't think anyone disagrees with that list, where I think I and others butt heads with others posters is the fact that I believe the first three points should preceed the last two. Otherwise you're just robbing peter to pay paul. I would rather look like LAD than the NYM.

 

Yup.

[mvp 78]

He was great in September, no? .571 OPSa

 

moon is a Kutter hater.

[Old Red]

The Sox are a poor franchise, apparently. We can't afford to pay players to be elsewhere!!!

 

The Red Sox had to pay JT who opted out, and are paying Sale $17M to pitch for Atlanta, and I was told the Red Sox couldn’t have used that $17M to sign anyone, and now someone wants to trade Yoshida, and pay $50M of that too. I must have been missing something that JH is so giving, and kind hearted.🙈🤭🙈!

[mvp 78]

why do we have to free up ANY MORE money ?

 

John Henry is a coupon clipper. He put his Christmas presents on layaway.

[mvp 78]

Becoming better at drafting and developing pitching is an admirable goal, but one that could take a decade to come to fruition, if it comes to fruition at all.

 

It doesn't take a decade to build a farm and infrastructure. It may take more than 4 years though.