Red Sox: Off Season '23-'24

[notin]

@SmittyOnMLB

Red Sox sign Alex Rodriguez’s nephew, assign him to Worcester

 

This guy

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/d/dunanjo01.shtml

[moonslav59]

They weren't saying yes to Betts.

 

It sure looks like that line in the sand was never going to be crossed.

 

With other players, maybe not. DD did get Bogey to sign an extension. It was the opt out that killed us. Had he been able to give more without the opt-out, we'd have had one less thing to bitch about.

[notin]

Actually if they sign Montgomery or Snell on a reasonable deal I think it will turn most people's opinions around to some degree. It would only reflect badly if the deal was a major overpay, but that seems like the remotest of possibilities.

 

I think Montgomery is still in play. I have my doubts about Snell…

[moonslav59]

Odds are most people view it as a gross overpay. It very well may be an overpay, but to many fans (of all teams) market value is always a gross overpay.

 

Those fans will only respond to results on the field at this, that’s the only thing that will turn around some perceptions.

 

And I’m not arguing against that perception one bit.

 

I felt the Price signing was a major overpay, but a needed one, at the time.

 

We need one, now.

[mvp 78]

I think Montgomery is still in play. I have my doubts about Snell…

 

Sox haven't been linked to Snell except by the guy on Reddit.

[notin]

Sox haven't been linked to Snell except by the guy on Reddit.

 

And that guy is Blake Snell’s dad!!!

[Bellhorn04]

I felt the Price signing was a major overpay, but a needed one, at the time.

 

We need one, now.

 

It wasn't even a major overpay, really. Greinke got 6/206.5 right around the same time. Scherzer got 7/210 (with deferrals) the year before.

[mvp 78]

It wasn't even a major overpay, really. Greinke got 6/206.5 right around the same time. Scherzer got 7/210 (with deferrals) the year before.

 

The David Price contract was fine.

[notin]

The David Price contract was fine.

 

I didn’t like it from Day One.

 

I wasn’t in this forum back then but my exact thoughts were I would have preferred extending Betts. (Of course back then, Betts’ thoughts on the subject were an even bigger mystery.)

[moonslav59]

It wasn't even a major overpay, really. Greinke got 6/206.5 right around the same time. Scherzer got 7/210 (with deferrals) the year before.

 

That's not the only way to view something as being an overpay or major one.

 

One could argue, those two were also overpays that ended up working out.

[notin]

That's not the only way to view something as being an overpay or major one.

 

One could argue, those two were also overpays that ended up working out.

 

So those deals do work out for future Hall of Famers…

[jad]

It sure looks like that line in the sand was never going to be crossed.

 

With other players, maybe not. DD did get Bogey to sign an extension. It was the opt out that killed us. Had he been able to give more without the opt-out, we'd have had one less thing to bitch about.

 

Alas, most positive things about this team and its recent history are forced to make excessive use of the subjunctive.

[Bellhorn04]

That's not the only way to view something as being an overpay or major one.

 

One could argue, those two were also overpays that ended up working out.

 

So show the data that supports Price being a major overpay then.

[moonslav59]

So those deals do work out for future Hall of Famers…

 

Of course, some of the largest and longest deals work out for the team. IMO, more than half don't.

 

I don't think Price gave us what we hoped for or expected.

 

I do not think he earned that contract.

 

Scherzer did.

 

I was fine with the Price signing. He looked like as sure of a bet as you could hope for, on the day we signed him. (Scherzer did, too- the year before.)

 

I thought it was a necessary overpay, at the time.

[mvp 78]

I didn’t like it from Day One.

 

I wasn’t in this forum back then but my exact thoughts were I would have preferred extending Betts. (Of course back then, Betts’ thoughts on the subject were an even bigger mystery.)

 

They could have done both, especially at that time.

[moonslav59]

So show the data that supports Price being a major overpay then.

 

How about fangraphs giving him a value of under $100M over his $217/7 year deal?

 

I thought it was a major overpay, due to the 7 years we needed to give him to get him to sign.

 

$32M x 4 would have been more like it.

 

$31M x 5 would have been pushing it, to me.

 

Look, these types of statements are clearly opinion-based.

 

Assigning dollar value to production value is hard enough. Assigning it to projected production value is always a contentious thing.

[dgalehouse]

I look at the latest news as a continuation of a long line of Sox Suckitude: Red Sox losing, Betts to LA, Schwarber to Philly, ERod to Detroit, Bogaerts to SD, Eovaldi to Texas, Turner to Tor, Wacha to anywhere else...

 

I threw in Wacha, because I know there are a few miserable fans here just dying to cite stats again to show why he'd be such a detriment to Boston's stellar Starting Five.

 

Michael Wacha is 25-6 over the past two seasons. 88-54 lifetime. But as the more astute posters will tell you, wins and losses do not matter.

[Old Red]

The David Price contract was fine.

 

The John Lester contract would have been fine for half the price.

[Bellhorn04]

How about fangraphs giving him a value of under $100M over his $217/7 year deal?

 

C'mon moon, we're obviously talking about his market value at the time, which has to be in reference to other signings.

[moonslav59]

C'mon moon, we're obviously talking about his market value at the time, which has to be in reference to other signings.

 

Yes, that's why I added more sentences.

 

I like the signing but thought it was an overpay. Maybe I should not have said "major overpay."

[moonslav59]

... which has to be in reference to other signings.

 

Does everyone have to agree that what many players sign for can never be an overpay?

[mvp 78]

The John Lester contract would have been fine for half the price.

 

They couldn't pay Lester that contract because he was over 30. Next question!

[Old Red]

They couldn't pay Lester that contract because he was over 30. Next question!

 

But I thought Lester, and JH were buddies. I didn’t hear that JH said goodbye to anyone else out in the parking lot.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Michael Wacha is 25-6 over the past two seasons. 88-54 lifetime. But as the more astute posters will tell you, wins and losses do not matter.

 

Discussing pitcher W-L records here is like using a blow dryer on the six hairs still growing on each side of my skull above my ears.

 

If you were John Henry's CBO, would you really want to waste millions of dollars on a guy who can give you two dozen starts a year -- which instead, you can cover with a handful of minimum- wage openers picked off the waiver wire?

[mvp 78]

Discussing pitcher W-L records here is like using a blow dryer on the six hairs still growing on each side of my skull above my ears.

 

If you were John Henry's CBO, would you really want to waste millions of dollars on a guy who can give you two dozen starts a year -- which instead, you can cover with a handful of minimum- wage openers picked off the waiver wire?

 

Waiver Wire? This is ERIC LAUER CENTRAL now!

[Bellhorn04]

Does everyone have to agree that what many players sign for can never be an overpay?

 

I think the word 'overpay' gets tossed around way too much. It's a classic armchair GM word. They don't usually pay the guy that much out of the goodness of their heart. They do it because that's what it takes to get the player to sign.

 

Did Yamamoto get overpaid? Most people would have to agree that his contract is pure insanity. $325 million plus a $50+ million posting fee, for a guy who has never played in MLB.

 

But most Sox fans probably wish it was us.

 

And of course, if Yamamoto underperforms, we'll all be mocking the Dodgers.

Edited February 1, 2024 by Bellhorn04

[notin]

Waiver Wire? This is ERIC LAUER CENTRAL now!

 

Lauer to me is like Plan C.

 

Montgomery is top choice, but I get passing if his demands are crazy or you like next year’s class better. Clevinger is Plan B. Then Lauer. Or do something Bloom always avoided doing - sign a reliever to backfill Houck’s spot in the pen

[moonslav59]

I think the word 'overpay' gets tossed around way too much. It's a classic armchair GM word. They don't usually pay the guy that much out of the goodness of their heart. They do it because that's what it takes to get the player to sign.

 

Did Yamamoto get overpaid? Most people would have to agree that his contract is pure insanity. $325 million plus a $50+ million posting fee, for a guy who has never played in MLB.

 

But most Sox fans probably wish it was us.

 

And of course, if Yamamoto underperforms, we'll all be mocking the Dodgers.

 

I'd have overpaid on the Yamo gamble, just like I was fine with Price's.

 

You need to overpay to get the best.

 

Do I think the Price signing was absurd as the Ohtani or Bogey signings? No, but IMO, it was an overpay.

[Bellhorn04]

Lauer to me is like Plan C.

 

Montgomery is top choice, but I get passing if his demands are crazy or you like next year’s class better. Clevinger is Plan B. Then Lauer. Or do something Bloom always avoided doing - sign a reliever to backfill Houck’s spot in the pen

 

I don't understand that last sentence. Wasn't it the shortage of starters that pushed Houck into the rotation last year? How would signing a reliever fix that?

[Bellhorn04]

I'd have overpaid on the Yamo gamble, just like I was fine with Price's.

 

You need to overpay to get the best.

 

Do I think the Price signing was absurd as the Ohtani or Bogey signings? No, but IMO, it was an overpay.

 

Well that brings into question exactly how you define 'overpay'. Compared to what? What's the point of reference? The average Joe would say all these guys are ridiculously overpaid.