Red Sox: Off Season '23-'24

[Maxbialystock]

Funny how some playoff teams have players that can play 162 games. Not in Boston. Rest, rest, rest.

 

One more time, here are the games played by the top 8 (in games played) players on the 2018 Sox, the best Sox team ever and one of the best MLB teams ever--

 

JDM 150

Beni 148

JBJ 144

Betts 136 (won AL MVP)

Bogey 136

Nunez 127

Moreland 124

Devers 121

 

As I also said before, some of those low numbers, like Mookie's 136 games, were the result of both injuries and rest days. Nevertheless, they were in fact missed games.

 

It is therefore unarguable that missed games, whether because of injury or for rest, do not prevent a team from playing well.

 

I hasten to add that the Atlanta Braves prefer to play their best players in every possible game, and clearly that works for them.

[Duran Is The Man]

One more time, here are the games played by the top 8 (in games played) players on the 2018 Sox, the best Sox team ever and one of the best MLB teams ever--

 

JDM 150

Beni 148

JBJ 144

Betts 136 (won AL MVP)

Bogey 136

Nunez 127

Moreland 124

Devers 121

 

As I also said before, some of those low numbers, like Mookie's 136 games, were the result of both injuries and rest days. Nevertheless, they were in fact missed games.

 

It is therefore unarguable that missed games, whether because of injury or for rest, do not prevent a team from playing well.

 

I hasten to add that the Atlanta Braves prefer to play their best players in every possible game, and clearly that works for them.

 

 

 

one could also argue that had they played more games, they might have won more than 108 games.

[Nick]

They gave Dugo the day off right before the AS break, but it was vs a LHPs. Ref started in LF (good idea) and Duvall started in RF (good idea.) When the lefty was pulled, Dugo cam in the game to replace Ref (good idea.)

 

I don't think this was a good example to criticize Cora.

 

There's a difference between poking fun at Cora so that his fans come out of the woodwork and defend him versus flat out being critical about it. That's the part I enjoy, the part where his fan base come defend him. I don't work for the Sox. I know NOTHING about what is going on behind the scene.

 

Scheduled days off are his way of doing things. I may not like it but he's the manager.

 

I only took couple of exceptions with him this year. And it was probably not his fault, 100%. I think you know what that was. I'm done talking about THAT.

 

And by the way, I don't think I've ever criticized Cora for why he got suspended. See, I'm not all negative.

[dgalehouse]

one could also argue that had they played more games, they might have won more than 108 games.

 

The thing about the 2018 Sox was that they were a complete team. There were no real weaknesses. They were good everywhere.

[moonslav59]

There's a difference between poking fun at Cora so that his fans come out of the woodwork and defend him versus flat out being critical about it. That's the part I enjoy, the part where his fan base come defend him. I don't work for the Sox. I know NOTHING about what is going on behind the scene.

 

Scheduled days off are his way of doing things. I may not like it but he's the manager.

 

I only took couple of exceptions with him this year. And it was probably not his fault, 100%. I think you know what that was. I'm done talking about THAT.

 

And by the way, I don't think I've ever criticized Cora for why he got suspended. See, I'm not all negative.

 

I know you are not, and it's entirely possible to be critical about a lot of things a manager does, yet still like him and not want him replace- like me.

 

Also, when I am critical, I know I don't have the whole picture, and might admit I was wrong, if I knew the reasons Cora chose option B over option A.

 

The scheduled days off, to me, seems to go against metrics and splits. I get why someone might think the benefits outweigh the possible losses in splits, but I disagree on this one. I think he can easily give himself a 1-2 game window before and after the "day" he wants a player to rest, and adjust once he know who is starting or sees a player is struggling or heating up near the scheduled day. Yes, other player's rest days may factor into adjustment decisions, and could have been applied without us knowing. I do remember one game, where a player asked to play on his scheduled day off, and Cora let him play.

 

It's the rigidity of the plan that seems to fly in the face of using data to better project success. Again, this does not mean I think I am smarter than Cora. I know I am not, but other smart managers don't do this, so I think I have a leg to stand on.

 

Also, in the grand scheme of everything a manager does and influences, this is pretty minor. I still really like Cora as our manager, despite some minor differences I have with his choices.

[moonslav59]

The thing about the 2018 Sox was that they were a complete team. There were no real weaknesses. They were good everywhere.

 

They had some, but too few to swing many games into losses.

 

Devers was still defending 3B (28th in DRS at 3B.)

 

(Overall, we were 15th in DRS, so not really a weakness.)

 

The closer fell apart in the playoffs, but we shrugged it off and got the key outs, when needed.

 

Now, when the team loses, our 3B defense is magnified into major reason we lost. (It was part of the reason, for sure.)

[Bellhorn04]

i know. i doubt we have anybody that has missed less than 11 games in a season the last 6 years.

 

Devers played 156 in 2019 and 156 in 2021. Looks like 6 is his standard number of rest days.

[notin]

Devers played 156 in 2019 and 156 in 2021. Looks like 6 is his standard number of rest days.

 

Only is odd numbered years apparently

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Nobody ever seems to remember that ballclubs, players and managers keep nagging injuries to themselves so that opponents won't exploit them.

 

Oh, bone bruise on the thumb? Pitch fastballs on his hands!

 

Strained hammy? Good, when he's on base, we can keep throwing sweepers instead of heat- i mean, sinkers...

The media might just be told "scheduled day off" as a way to conceal the truth.

[notin]

one could also argue that had they played more games, they might have won more than 108 games.

 

One could also argue that logic applies to every team in history…

[moonslav59]

Nobody ever seems to remember that ballclubs, players and managers keep nagging injuries to themselves so that opponents won't exploit them.

 

Oh, bone bruise on the thumb? Pitch fastballs on his hands!

 

Strained hammy? Good, when he's on base, we can keep throwing sweepers instead of heat- i mean, sinkers...

The media might just be told "scheduled day off" as a way to conceal the truth.

 

The pattern gives it away. Almost all these scheduled days off are beofre a team day off or a day after night game situation. I think Cora is telling the truth, when he says the day was scheduled off many days before it happens.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

The pattern gives it away. Almost all these scheduled days off are beofre a team day off or a day after night game situation. I think Cora is telling the truth, when he says the day was scheduled off many days before it happens.

 

Maybe, but wouldn't it make even more sense to give two days rest to a guy who was banged up?

 

"Many days before it happens" can still protect someone with a nagging injury -- the kind that doesn't land players on the IL, but affects their performance for months (look at Mayer this season, who played hurt for two months before they had to shut him down).

[moonslav59]

Maybe, but wouldn't it make even more sense to give two days rest to a guy who was banged up?

 

"Many days before it happens" can still protect someone with a nagging injury -- the kind that doesn't land players on the IL, but affects their performance for months (look at Mayer this season, who played hurt for two months before they had to shut him down).

 

If a guy is "banged up," why schedule a day off in 10 days?

 

It's not the 2 days off that bugs me: it's the inflexibility of the match-up on that scheduled day off. It goes against the very metrics they preach.

 

Unless they have some data that shows this works better, (and they may) I'm sticking to my guns on this.

 

Give a guy a day off around when he needs it ut based on who he is facing in that 2-4 day window when rest is needed most- not one day, regardless of who the pitcher is.

 

I may be wrong, but I get the feeling, Cora is so rigid on the chosen day, that he'd rest a guy who was 10-12 against the pitcher in the past, just went 4-5 in the last two games and has a 1.000 OPS against that handed pitcher. All because the day was picked 10 days ago.

[Bellhorn04]

If a guy is "banged up," why schedule a day off in 10 days?

 

It's not the 2 days off that bugs me: it's the inflexibility of the match-up on that scheduled day off. It goes against the very metrics they preach.

 

Unless they have some data that shows this works better, (and they may) I'm sticking to my guns on this.

 

Give a guy a day off around when he needs it ut based on who he is facing in that 2-4 day window when rest is needed most- not one day, regardless of who the pitcher is.

 

I may be wrong, but I get the feeling, Cora is so rigid on the chosen day, that he'd rest a guy who was 10-12 against the pitcher in the past, just went 4-5 in the last two games and has a 1.000 OPS against that handed pitcher. All because the day was picked 10 days ago.

 

You get the feeling? No supporting data?

 

When I get a chance I might go through Devers's 2023 game logs and see what the data is for the games he sat, the game right before it etc.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

You get the feeling? No supporting data?

 

When I get a chance I might go through Devers's 2023 game logs and see what the data is for the games he sat, the game right before it etc.

 

The elephant on the baseline... jogging to first on grounders is a bad look -- everyone knows it, especially the guy in charge of the dugout.

 

So, how can Verdugo get benched for not hustling, but not Devers... unless he has a nagging leg issue that management would rather not disclose.

[Bellhorn04]

The elephant on the baseline... jogging to first on grounders is a bad look -- everyone knows it, especially the guy in charge of the dugout.

 

So, how can Verdugo get benched for not hustling, but not Devers... unless he has a nagging leg issue that management would rather not disclose.

 

Devers's hammies are made for trouble.

[moonslav59]

You get the feeling? No supporting data?

 

When I get a chance I might go through Devers's 2023 game logs and see what the data is for the games he sat, the game right before it etc.

 

Cora has said he schedules days off over a week in advance.

 

It seems weird that we have been talking about this issue for months, and you only now question whether he even does it.

[Bellhorn04]

Cora has said he schedules days off over a week in advance.

 

It seems weird that we have been talking about this issue for months, and you only now question whether he even does it.

 

That's the first time I've seen Cora quoted on that point. Did he say how rigid the schedule is?

[Nick]

First baseman Triston Casas, starter Brayan Bello and outfielder Jarren Duran stand out as the players the Sox could look to lock up this winter, with starter Kutter Crawford, catcher Connor Wong and rookie outfielders Wilyer Abreu and Ceddanne Rafaela also in the mix for pre-arbitration deals. On the latest episode of MassLive’s Fenway Rundown podcast, team president/CEO Sam Kennedy confirmed that early deals will be a priority for Boston this winter.

 

“We should be able to determine which players would qualify for longer-term extensions, whether it’s Bello, whether it’s Abreu, whether it’s Duran or Casas. These are really important decisions that our baseball operations people have to make.”, Sam Kennedy

 

I pay attention to what the executives say.

 

Many scoffed at the idea of me including Rafaela and Abreu in our core group, and NOT Verdugo. Hell, Sam Kennedy even mentions Duran, and many here doesn't think he hasn't proven himself yet.

 

#1 priority is Bello

#2 priority is Casas

I think we have at least another year before jumping in on Duran, Kutter and Houck.

Two years on Wong, Rafaela and Abreu.

 

We don't have to jump in all at once.

 

My belief is it should be done after the second or third year.

[moonslav59]

That's the first time I've seen Cora quoted on that point. Did he say how rigid the schedule is?

 

I know I've read several quotes on this, but here is what I found with a google search, today:

 

https://nesn.com/2023/06/red-soxs-alex-cora-explains-scheduled-rafael-devers-rest-day/

 

If I am wrong about his rigidity, then my issues with the chosen days off will no longer be something I disagree on. I still think 3-7 days off is probably more than enough for almost all players, but it's no big deal, to me, if they get 8 or 9. Over 9 needs some 'splainin'.

 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

First baseman Triston Casas, starter Brayan Bello and outfielder Jarren Duran stand out as the players the Sox could look to lock up this winter, with starter Kutter Crawford, catcher Connor Wong and rookie outfielders Wilyer Abreu and Ceddanne Rafaela also in the mix for pre-arbitration deals. On the latest episode of MassLive’s Fenway Rundown podcast, team president/CEO Sam Kennedy confirmed that early deals will be a priority for Boston this winter.

 

“We should be able to determine which players would qualify for longer-term extensions, whether it’s Bello, whether it’s Abreu, whether it’s Duran or Casas. These are really important decisions that our baseball operations people have to make.”, Sam Kennedy

 

I pay attention to what the executives say.

 

Many scoffed at the idea of me including Rafaela and Abreu in our core group, and NOT Verdugo. Hell, Sam Kennedy even mentions Duran, and many here doesn't think he hasn't proven himself yet.

 

#1 priority is Bello

#2 priority is Casas

I think we have at least another year before jumping in on Duran, Kutter and Houck.

Two years on Wong, Rafaela and Abreu.

 

We don't have to jump in all at once.

 

My belief is it should be done after the second or third year.

 

This is where they constantly blew it with Mookie. Every time they tried to lock him up, his market value had already exceeded their offer.

 

But the Red Sox front office, arrogant in their lofty place in the upper echelon of big markets, never expected a kid in his 20s to refuse them.

[moonslav59]

First baseman Triston Casas, starter Brayan Bello and outfielder Jarren Duran stand out as the players the Sox could look to lock up this winter, with starter Kutter Crawford, catcher Connor Wong and rookie outfielders Wilyer Abreu and Ceddanne Rafaela also in the mix for pre-arbitration deals. On the latest episode of MassLive’s Fenway Rundown podcast, team president/CEO Sam Kennedy confirmed that early deals will be a priority for Boston this winter.

 

“We should be able to determine which players would qualify for longer-term extensions, whether it’s Bello, whether it’s Abreu, whether it’s Duran or Casas. These are really important decisions that our baseball operations people have to make.”, Sam Kennedy

 

I pay attention to what the executives say.

 

Many scoffed at the idea of me including Rafaela and Abreu in our core group, and NOT Verdugo. Hell, Sam Kennedy even mentions Duran, and many here doesn't think he hasn't proven himself yet.

 

#1 priority is Bello

#2 priority is Casas

I think we have at least another year before jumping in on Duran, Kutter and Houck.

Two years on Wong, Rafaela and Abreu.

 

We don't have to jump in all at once.

 

My belief is it should be done after the second or third year.

 

You think Duran has "proven himself?"

[Hugh2]

To me, Abreu and DUran don't strike me as the type you lock up. I think they will be good in peak years and you will get their best years on team control. Look to lock up high-end talent, like Bello and Casas. Names like Abreu and Rafaela don't even belong in the same conversation as those two right now.

[Bellhorn04]

To me, Abreu and DUran don't strike me as the type you lock up. I think they will be good in peak years and you will get their best years on team control. Look to lock up high-end talent, like Bello and Casas. Names like Abreu and Rafaela don't even belong in the same conversation as those two right now.

 

I also question whether Bello has done enough to show that he's high-end.

[mvp 78]

You think Duran has "proven himself?"

 

OPS by month '23:

APR 1061

MAY 662

JUN 765

JUL 1088

AUG 602

SEP DNP

 

LOCK HIM UP! LOCK HIM UP! LOCK HIM UP!

[moonslav59]

I also question whether Bello has done enough to show that he's high-end.

 

His drop off, at the end of 2023 confirms your position. IMO, he remains extremely promising, and is deserving of being handed a slot in the 2024 rotation, but he has more to prove. Bello started 28 games and gave only 157 IP. His last 13 starts:

5.58 ERA

5.31 FIP

.880 OPS Against

 

Last 14 starts: 5.49/5.35/.887

Last 20 starts: 4.36/4.48/.767

 

Casas has a great approach, and other than his defense, he seems to have "proven" he can hit in the bigs. (Again, IMO.)

[moonslav59]

OPS by month '23:

APR 1061

MAY 662

JUN 765

JUL 1088

AUG 602

SEP DNP

 

LOCK HIM UP! LOCK HIM UP! LOCK HIM UP!

 

Not "proof" to me.

[Old Red]

You think Duran has "proven himself?"

 

Not only no, but He’ll no!

[Old Red]

I also question whether Bello has done enough to show that he's high-end.

 

He’s high end compared to all the others they got, but he’s still got some improvement to do.

[mvp 78]

I also question whether Bello has done enough to show that he's high-end.

 

Casas is a yes. Bello is a no. He's a 3rd starter most likely. Some people were saying he was a future ace, but I don't see it. I think his CEILING is a #2. Per fWAR, he was tied for 99th place for starters (Gray and Taillon).