Trade Deadline 2023

moonslav59 · July 3, 2023

Many felt we should have had a fire sale in 2022. Many felt we should have been heavier buyers. Not many expected what we ended up doing.

There are about 4 weeks left to go, and so many teams are still in the WC race.

Do we sell?

Do we buy?

Do we do a little of both?

Do we do next to nothing?

If we do decide to sell, we have the luxury of offering to pay all or almost all remaining salaries. This should increase the amount of teams making offers, and improve the return value we get.

I'd say all free agents to be would be on the table and maybe some players who will be FAs after 2024 or redundant positional players with longer control.

FAs after 2023:

Kike

Duvall

Paxton

Kluber

Mondesi

After 2024

Sale

Jansen

Martin

Turner

Pivetta

Others?

Dalbec

Arroyo

Nick · July 3, 2023

Here is where we are....this is injury riddled team.

I don't want to think about it because it really pisses me off.

Story is at the top of my s*** list. After underwhelming performance last year, he follows up with this....0 production in 2023.

He forced me to watch Kike play out of position.

That really pissed me off.

Sale....what can you say about him? His extension is beginning to look really bad. Yeah he says all the right things. Bottom line is he is f***ing dead to his teammates. Just shut the f up and get back on the mound and earn some of your paycheck.

Houck out. Whitlock maybe out. Bloom's worst signing to date, Kluber.

What the hell happened to Schreiber?

Chang is out. Mondessi is in club med enjoying his time off.

Moon, we are not going to go anywhere with all the injuries.

Sell and get healthy for 2024.

Edited July 3, 2023 by Nick

moonslav59 · July 3, 2023

Here is where we are....this is injury riddled team.

I don't want to think about it because it really pisses me off.

Story is at the top of my s*** list. After underwhelming performance last year, he follows up with this....0 production in 2023.

He forced me to watch Kike play out of position.
That really pissed me off.

Sale....what can you say about him? His extension is beginning to look really bad. Yeah he says all the right things. Bottom line is he is f***ing dead to his teammates. Just shut the f up and get back on the mound and earn some of your paycheck.

Houck out. Whitlock maybe out. Bloom's worst signing to date, Kluber.

What the hell happened to Schreiber?
Chang is out. Mondessi is in club med enjoying his time off.

Moon, we are not going to go anywhere with all the injuries.

Sell and get healthy for 2024.

I’ve not given up, yet, but have no issues with those who have.

Too many of these guys are expected back. At least Sale showed he can still bring it, when healthy. Story has been very disappointing but he’s still in his prime. I have faith in Houck and Whitlock, but they need to get back and soon.

Schreiber was moved to 60 days, but I think that ends in July.

Turner is a second half beast.

Devers has the ability to have a career year, still.

Have faith!

Or not.

notin · July 3, 2023

We’re sort of like buyers now, getting back Sale, Story, Mondesi, Chang, Schreiber and Houck…

dgalehouse · July 3, 2023

Things could change in three weeks, but right now there is no justification to be sellers.

Nick · July 3, 2023

I’ve not given up, yet, but have no issues with those who have.

Too many of these guys are expected back. At least Sale showed he can still bring it, when healthy. Story has been very disappointing but he’s still in his prime. I have faith in Houck and Whitlock, but they need to get back and soon.

Schreiber was moved to 60 days, but I think that ends in July.

Turner is a second half beast.

Devers has the ability to have a career year, still.

Have faith!

Or not.

I like this team. Just not this year with all the injuries.

And I am perfectly ok with being wrong and have egg on my face.

Edited July 3, 2023 by Nick

vegasbob · July 3, 2023

My gut feel is that Sox will not be sellers , particularly Paxton , because that would be capitulation. However, players like Kike, Arroyo, McGuire and Duvall could be moved for prospects , if a catcher is part of the package. Pivetta is an interesting teaser but we still need him or equal now. If they think they can get to WC this year and next, Jansen needs to stay.

Kluber and Mondesi are non-factors, no one would take them and the Sox gamble failed on both.

cp176 · July 4, 2023

My gut feel is that Sox will not be sellers , particularly Paxton , because that would be capitulation. However, players like Kike, Arroyo, McGuire and Duvall could be moved for prospects , if a catcher is part of the package. Pivetta is an interesting teaser but we still need him or equal now. If they think they can get to WC this year and next, Jansen needs to stay.

Kluber and Mondesi are non-factors, no one would take them and the Sox gamble failed on both.

yes!

moonslav59 · July 4, 2023

My gut feel is that Sox will not be sellers , particularly Paxton , because that would be capitulation. However, players like Kike, Arroyo, McGuire and Duvall could be moved for prospects , if a catcher is part of the package. Pivetta is an interesting teaser but we still need him or equal now. If they think they can get to WC this year and next, Jansen needs to stay.

Kluber and Mondesi are non-factors, no one would take them and the Sox gamble failed on both.

We got the CWS to not only take Diekman and his full remaining salary for 2023 and 2024, but they gave us McGuire, too.

I doubt we find any takers for Kluber or Mondesi, but we can hope.

We could "sell" Duvall, and just play Duran FT in CF (with Kike as the RH'd possible platoon,) or we could trade Kike, if we know Story, Chang or Mondesi will be ready by the deadline. Pay off his whole salary, and maybe somebody wants him and will give more than a McGuire.

In other words, we may buy and sell, again.

moonslav59 · July 4, 2023

I like this team. Just not this year with all the injuries.

And I am perfectly ok with being wrong and have egg on my face.

I don't think anyone thinks we can or will win, if these injuries stay like this.

It's getting tiring always hoping injured players return.

It's like we are becoming the Yankees with all the injuries and injury prone players on the roster.

5GoldGlovesOF,75 · July 4, 2023

I don't think anyone thinks we can or will win, if these injuries stay like this.

It's getting tiring always hoping injured players return.

It's like we are becoming the Yankees with all the injuries and injury prone players on the roster.

The thing is, with our particular injured players, nothing is guaranteed they'll be back near 100% when they do return. Look at the way Duvall has been hitting since his wrist supposedly healed.

Does anyone really think Story's elbow brace will make an actual body part as good as new? Or Mondesi's knee -- if it ever allows him to play again -- will make him just as fast as he was when he was two years younger? Chang actually had a body part (a bone) removed from his hand, and has suffered pain in his rehab attempts; this is a pro athlete reliant on the use of his hands... it's not like this was a useless appendix.

As for the wounded pitchers, we can only hope Houck won't be gun-shy forever when he returns. The rest have arm problems -- good luck with that.

moonslav59 · July 4, 2023

The thing is, with our particular injured players, nothing is guaranteed they'll be back near 100% when they do return. Look at the way Duvall has been hitting since his wrist supposedly healed.

Does anyone really think Story's elbow brace will make an actual body part as good as new? Or Mondesi's knee -- if it ever allows him to play again -- will make him just as fast as he was when he was two years younger? Chang actually had a body part (a bone) removed from his hand, and has suffered pain in his rehab attempts; this is a pro athlete reliant on the use of his hands... it's not like this was a useless appendix.

As for the wounded pitchers, we can only hope Houck won't be gun-shy forever when he returns. The rest have arm problems -- good luck with that.

I feel better about returning injured players this year over last year.

Sale: I saw he still has it, this year. Last year, not only did I not know, if he was going to pitch, I did not know he'd be any good, if he did. True, this injury may make that question and answer the same, but I do feel slightly better.

Duval is a damn good player. He had a bad injury for a hitter, but I do think he improves before the deadline.

Story is a damn good player and an athlete. I do think he will be better than 2022, when he returns. I do worry about his D at SS, but if Chang can play SS and Story 2B, we might be a greatly improved team. (Add Reyes, if one does not make it. Forget about Mondesi.)

Houck & Whitlock have done very well for us from 2021-2022. I'm confident both can return to a better place than they were earlier, this year.

Schreiber, Bleier, Joely, Kelly, Mills offer a lot of options for pen help. Schreiber could be a difference maker.

McGuire come back, soon.

Will all these guys come back and do great? NO WAY! Ask yourself how many need to.

I'll venture an answer:

2 from Sale, Whitlock and Houck (This may be the biggest reach.)

2 from Story, Chang, Reyes and Mondesi

2 from Schreiber, Duvall, McGuire or 1 with a 3 for 3 or 3 for 4 from above.

What are the odds we get 5 back and producing, not the 6 I suggested we need? Would that be enough?

Story, Houck, Whitlock, Schreiber and McGuire?

moonslav59 · July 4, 2023

Injury report by Covers:

Return Date:

7/4? Yoshida (leg)

7/4? Duvall (sickness)

early July McGuire (oblique)

Unknown:

Houck (face) maybe after AS break?

Whitlock (elbow) maybe miss one start?

Sale (shoulder) maybe early August

Schreiber (back- comes off 60 day in mid July)

Joely (shoulder- comes off 15 day in mid July)

Kelly (elbow- maybe early Sept)

Reyes (oblique)

Chang (wrist)

Kluber (shoulder)

Mills (elbow)

Mondesi (knee)

vegasbob · July 4, 2023

If the Sox could only move one position player and one pitcher in return for a AAA level , August/September ready prospect, who would those 2 be?

My position player is Kike who will not be re-upped for 2024. Not all his own fault , shouldn't have had to be at SS , but he has no future in Boston's plans.

Lots of options for a pitcher selection but to me I would shop Chris Sale and pay 50% of his remaining money to an edge team who might take a real chance , preferably in the NL. ( Phillies, Brewers, Giants ?)

moonslav59 · July 4, 2023

If the Sox could only move one position player and one pitcher in return for a AAA level , August/September ready prospect, who would those 2 be?

My position player is Kike who will not be re-upped for 2024. Not all his own fault , shouldn't have had to be at SS , but he has no future in Boston's plans.

Lots of options for a pitcher selection but to me I would shop Chris Sale and pay 50% of his remaining money to an edge team who might take a real chance , preferably in the NL. ( Phillies, Brewers, Giants ?)

We need middle IF, and Story may DH for a while before playing SS or 2B.

I think Duvall would go before Kike.

The pitcher would be Paxton or Sale, depending on being in or out at the deadline.

Bellhorn04 · July 4, 2023

If the Sox could only move one position player and one pitcher in return for a AAA level , August/September ready prospect, who would those 2 be?

My position player is Kike who will not be re-upped for 2024. Not all his own fault , shouldn't have had to be at SS , but he has no future in Boston's plans.

Lots of options for a pitcher selection but to me I would shop Chris Sale and pay 50% of his remaining money to an edge team who might take a real chance , preferably in the NL. ( Phillies, Brewers, Giants ?)

Sale's remaining AAV is about 34 million, so the acquiring team would be on the hook for 17 mill.

If he gets back on the mound before the deadline it might be a possibility, but that in itself seems like a long shot.

moonslav59 · July 4, 2023

Sale's remaining AAV is about 34 million, so the acquiring team would be on the hook for 17 mill.

If he gets back on the mound before the deadline it might be a possibility, but that in itself seems like a long shot.

We can pay all of his 2023 contract and maybe pay down some of 2024 to improve the return.

I doubt Sale comes back before the deadline, so it would be a big gamble for a team to get him on August 1st.

Might we think trading Crawford while his stock is high be something they consider?

Larry Cook · July 4, 2023

Sell, sell sell !!!

Duvall, hernandez, Paxton, Jensen, and martin please report to the coaches office and bring your playbooks with you!!!!!

notin · July 4, 2023

Sell, sell sell !!!

Duvall, hernandez, Paxton, Jensen, and martin please report to the coaches office and bring your playbooks with you!!!!!

For that crowd (except Paxton), getting back the playbooks would be all the Sox get in those deals..

5GoldGlovesOF,75 · July 5, 2023

I doubt Sale comes back before the deadline, so it would be a big gamble for a team to get him on August 1st.

Is it bad when I read this that I could only think of one man in charge of any MLB franchise that would even think that would be a good idea?

Maxbialystock · July 5, 2023

Here is where we are....this is injury riddled team.

I don't want to think about it because it really pisses me off.

Story is at the top of my s*** list. After underwhelming performance last year, he follows up with this....0 production in 2023.

He forced me to watch Kike play out of position.
That really pissed me off.

Sale....what can you say about him? His extension is beginning to look really bad. Yeah he says all the right things. Bottom line is he is f***ing dead to his teammates. Just shut the f up and get back on the mound and earn some of your paycheck.

Houck out. Whitlock maybe out. Bloom's worst signing to date, Kluber.

What the hell happened to Schreiber?
Chang is out. Mondessi is in club med enjoying his time off.

Moon, we are not going to go anywhere with all the injuries.

Sell and get healthy for 2024.

Agree with the projection of injuries. The rotation is a shambles and unlikely to recover--and the bullpen isn't strong enough to make up the difference. Nor is the hitting.

Not sure what "sell" entails, so will hold off on commenting.

Donnie Sadler was short · July 5, 2023

Many felt we should have had a fire sale in 2022. Many felt we should have been heavier buyers. Not many expected what we ended up doing.

There are about 4 weeks left to go, and so many teams are still in the WC race.

Do we sell?

Do we buy?

Do we do a little of both?

Do we do next to nothing?

If we do decide to sell, we have the luxury of offering to pay all or almost all remaining salaries. This should increase the amount of teams making offers, and improve the return value we get.

I'd say all free agents to be would be on the table and maybe some players who will be FAs after 2024 or redundant positional players with longer control.

FAs after 2023:
Kike
Duvall
Paxton
Kluber
Mondesi

After 2024
Sale
Jansen
Martin
Turner
Pivetta

Others?
Dalbec

Arroyo

The one Im most reluctant to trade, and also the one that drives me bat $hit crazy the most..Pivetta. Try to extend Paxton for 2 yrs. Let Turners contract run its course..he is doing exactly what you got him for. If he's redundant next year, then you can swap him when this team will HOPEFULLY be a contender.

moonslav59 · July 5, 2023

Agree with the projection of injuries. The rotation is a shambles and unlikely to recover--and the bullpen isn't strong enough to make up the difference. Nor is the hitting.

Not sure what "sell" entails, so will hold off on commenting.

Unlikely? Maybe, but...

Houck should be back after the break. Whitlock's elbow issues is reportedly just a bone bruise, so he should be back around the same time. I'd never count on Sale to come back, but I said the same about Paxton, so who knows?

We have about 4 weeks to get a better feel for how the rotation is shaping up. I'd say, if we are close and the rotation is looking healthier, I'd lean towards buying, but not by trading away top prospects for just a rental.

If they look injured or slow to recover, I'd sell anyone not part of our longer term plans, including 1.5 year players that are post-prime (not Dugo & Pivetta. Assume Sale is untradeable.)

We could spend big, this coming winter and have a better roster and deeper farm by selling. Assume we sell all 0.5 and 1.5 controlled players, here is the base to work with and add to:

(I'll assume Story at SS, but we could add a SS and keep Story at 2B.)

C Wong/McGuire (Hamilton/Hickey)

1B Casas/Dalbec (Kavadas/Jordan)

2B _____/ Arroyo/DHamilton/EValdez (Yorke)

SS Story/Chang/Reyes (Mayer)

3B Devers

LF _____/Refsnyder/Yoshida

CF Duran (Rafaela)

RF Dugo (Abreu)

DH Yoshida/Refsnyder/Dalbec (EValdez/Kavadas/Meidroth)

SP1 ______

SP2 Bello

SP3 ______

SP4 ______

SP5 Sale/Whitlock/Houck/Pivetta/Crawford (Drohan, Mata, Walter, Murphy)

RP1 Houck

RP2 Whitlock

RP3 ______

RP4 Schreiber

RP5 Winckowski

RP6 Crawford

RP7 Pivetta.Bleier/Joely/Mills (Kelly/Guerrero/Denlinger/Fernandez)

Instead of signing 8-11 FAs every year, let's go with 6.

SP1, SP3, SP4, 2B/SS, LF, RP

If we go over the line, we don't have to settle on $7-10M starters and $7M OF'ers.

Edited July 5, 2023 by moonslav59

Duran Is The Man · July 5, 2023

Unlikely? Maybe, but...

Houck should be back after the break. Whitlock's elbow issues is reportedly just a bone bruise, so he should be back around the same time. I'd never count on Sale to come back, but I said the same about Paxton, so who knows?

We have about 4 weeks to get a better feel for how the rotation is shaping up. I'd say, if we are close and the rotation is looking healthier, I'd lean towards buying, but not by trading away top prospects for just a rental.

If they look injured or slow to recover, I'd sell anyone not part of our longer term plans, including 1.5 year players that are post-prime (not Dugo & Pivetta. Assume Sale is untradeable.)

We could spend big, this coming winter and have a better roster and deeper farm by selling. Assume we sell all 0.5 and 1.5 controlled players, here is the base to work with and add to:
(I'll assume Story at SS, but we could add a SS and keep Story at 2B.)

C Wong/McGuire (Hamilton/Hickey)
1B Casas/Dalbec (Kavadas/Jordan)
2B _____/ Arroyo/DHamilton/EValdez (Yorke)
SS Story/Chang/Reyes (Mayer)
3B Devers
LF _____/Refsnyder/Yoshida
CF Duran (Rafaela)
RF Dugo (Abreu)
DH Yoshida/Refsnyder/Dalbec (EValdez/Kavadas/Meidroth)

SP1 ______
SP2 Bello
SP3 ______
SP4 ______
SP5 Sale/Whitlock/Houck/Pivetta/Crawford (Drohan, Mata, Walter, Murphy)

RP1 Houck
RP2 Whitlock
RP3 ______
RP4 Schreiber
RP5 Winckowski
RP6 Crawford
RP7 Pivetta.Bleier/Joely/Mills (Kelly/Guerrero/Denlinger/Fernandez)

Instead of signing 8-11 FAs every year, let's go with 6.

SP1, SP3, SP4, 2B/SS, LF, RP

If we go over the line, we don't have to settle on $7-10M starters and $7M OF'ers.

who do you think Bloom should be looking at to fill those obvious holes?

moonslav59 · July 5, 2023

who do you think Bloom should be looking at to fill those obvious holes?

Honestly, I don't know. He could trade for 1-2, if they don't mind giving up some good prospects.

I could see him going after Snell and maybe keep Paxton. (Urias or Montgomery?)

Closer: Josh Hader?

SS; DeJung or Ahmed Rosario

5GoldGlovesOF,75 · July 5, 2023

If Bloom is as smart as a Yale grad, he'd be on the phone today with both the Diamondbacks and his favorite go-to, the Dodgers. They're 1-2 in the NL West, only two losses apart, and each team is hurting for starting pitching right now -- with key guys on the IL and team ERAs higher than the NL average.

Wonder what a bidding war for Paxton, the AL Pitcher of the Month, would look like between two rivals, each trying to recruit him and keep him from going to the other club?

This may be of particular interest to the Red Sox: 6 of the top 10 prospects for both Arizona and LA are pitchers...

illinoisredsox · July 5, 2023

We need middle IF, and Story may DH for a while before playing SS or 2B.

I think Duvall would go before Kike.

The pitcher would be Paxton or Sale, depending on being in or out at the deadline.

Agree on Duvall. Kike isn’t going anywhere this year. For one thing, he’s not going to get you anything. But beyond that, for all his issues on the field, from everything I’ve heard, he’s well liked in the clubhouse by the players. He played a big part in getting three of the better performers to sign here in Turner, Martin and Jansen. His playing time is already being reduced, and I don’t see that changing going forward barring a rash of more injuries. It’s not like he’s blocking anyone at this point.

He won’t be resigned, but he will be here for 80 or do more games.

Hugh2 · July 5, 2023

Agree on Different ball . Kike isn’t going anywhere this year. For one thing, he’s not going to get you anything. But beyond that, for all his issues on the field, from everything I’ve heard, he’s well liked in the clubhouse by the players. He played a big part in getting three of the better performers to sign here in Turner, Martin and Jansen. His playing time is already being reduced, and I don’t see that changing going forward barring a rash of more injuries. It’s not like he’s blocking anyone at this point.

He won’t be resigned, but he will be here for 80 or do more games.

Kike would be fine if he was used right. Recently he's shown he can be a plus defender at other positions, he just can't throw worth a lick at SS. The Sox already sits below the luxury tax, so they could probably easily unload a guy like Kike if they ate his salary. Maybe they should sit Duran against a few lefties and let Kike roam CF again and see if he can still play plus plus D there. If he can, you will definitely get something for him, especially if you eat the salary.

notin · July 5, 2023

If Bloom is as smart as a Yale grad, he'd be on the phone today with both the Diamondbacks and his favorite go-to, the Dodgers. They're 1-2 in the NL West, only two losses apart, and each team is hurting for starting pitching right now -- with key guys on the IL and team ERAs higher than the NL average.

Wonder what a bidding war for Paxton, the AL Pitcher of the Month, would look like between two rivals, each trying to recruit him and keep him from going to the other club?

This may be of particular interest to the Red Sox: 6 of the top 10 prospects for both Arizona and LA are pitchers...

If both teams top prospect lists are loaded with pitching, they’re both very likely to try internal solutions first. Because unlike trades, if they don’t work out in time, those moves can be undone.

Paxton might be Pitcher of the Month, but you have to also figure both teams to be interested in a few other obvious fire sale candidates - namely Giolito, Snell, Flaherty, Montgomery, Cobb, Lynn and Wacha…

5GoldGlovesOF,75 · July 5, 2023

If both teams top prospect lists are loaded with pitching, they’re both very likely to try internal solutions first. Because unlike trades, if they don’t work out in time, those moves can be undone.

Paxton might be Pitcher of the Month, but you have to also figure both teams to be interested in a few other obvious fire sale candidates - namely Giolito, Snell, Flaherty, Montgomery, Cobb, Lynn and Wacha…

A lot of those names are guys the Red Sox should be in on -- for now and the future. The Cardinals are most intriguing, but not in trades; St. Lou has to be looking for younger, controllable pitching in return, and that's not something even the clever Boston ops can afford to dangle. For teams going nowhere this summer, it'd be better to wait until winter and just sign Montgomery.

As for Snell and Wacha, can't see the Pads giving up, and at the same time upgrading their rivals in the West. SD's weakness, for some reason, is making contact, with the second-lowest batting average in the NL. Maybe they should offer Soto to Boston for Yoshida, a .300 hitter locked up for basically half-price of what a guy who turned down $400 million will be making for the next decade.

Then again... maybe Bloom should refuse any Soto-for-Yoshida deal, and look like a financial genius -- long after he's gone from Beantown (at least he'll have a positive legacy)?

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