Trade Deadline 2023

[sk7326]

A lot of those names are guys the Red Sox should be in on -- for now and the future. The Cardinals are most intriguing, but not in trades; St. Lou has to be looking for younger, controllable pitching in return, and that's not something even the clever Boston ops can afford to dangle. For teams going nowhere this summer, it'd be better to wait until winter and just sign Montgomery.

 

As for Snell and Wacha, can't see the Pads giving up, and at the same time upgrading their rivals in the West. SD's weakness, for some reason, is making contact, with the second-lowest batting average in the NL. Maybe they should offer Soto to Boston for Yoshida, a .300 hitter locked up for basically half-price of what a guy who turned down $400 million will be making for the next decade.

 

Then again... maybe Bloom should refuse any Soto-for-Yoshida deal, and look like a financial genius -- long after he's gone from Beantown (at least he'll have a positive legacy)?

 

Heck I'm not sure the Cardinals are going to give up. I think the Cardinals are much more likely to be buyers - if they sell, it will be small because they (correctly) think they should be good next year.

[sk7326]

I’ve not given up, yet, but have no issues with those who have.

 

Too many of these guys are expected back. At least Sale showed he can still bring it, when healthy. Story has been very disappointing but he’s still in his prime. I have faith in Houck and Whitlock, but they need to get back and soon.

 

Schreiber was moved to 60 days, but I think that ends in July.

 

Turner is a second half beast.

 

Devers has the ability to have a career year, still.

 

Have faith!

 

Or not.

 

I'd like to have faith. But the team has just not been able to put together a real run. And they have not feasted on the balanced schedule like we all expected. Indeed they are 16-11 against the East after last year's 26-50 debacle. They just have not cleaned up against everybody else - and they have been particularly lousy in Interleague. (though the New Normal interleague means the AL does not have that inherent lineup advantage)

[Dipre]

I'd like to have faith. But the team has just not been able to put together a real run. And they have not feasted on the balanced schedule like we all expected. Indeed they are 16-11 against the East after last year's 26-50 debacle. They just have not cleaned up against everybody else - and they have been particularly lousy in Interleague. (though the New Normal interleague means the AL does not have that inherent lineup advantage)

 

The Red Sox have not beaten the level of competition that they should. That is an absolute death sentence for a team.

[moonslav59]

The Red Sox have not beaten the level of competition that they should. That is an absolute death sentence for a team.

 

True, but it also offers a ray of hope that we can romp over bad teams in the second half.

[notin]

Heck I'm not sure the Cardinals are going to give up. I think the Cardinals are much more likely to be buyers - if they sell, it will be small because they (correctly) think they should be good next year.

 

The big issue facing the Cardinals is the bulk of their rotation are all free agents after this year. The only pitchers returning next year with SP experience are Mikolas and Matz. And I think they would love to deal Matz…

[moonslav59]

The big issue facing the Cardinals is the bulk of their rotation are all free agents after this year. The only pitchers returning next year with SP experience are Mikolas and Matz. And I think they would love to deal Matz…

 

I think there were rumors we had interest in Matz a few years ago.

 

He just turned 32, and I don't think trading for a 5.06 ERA guy ('22-'23) is going to help, unless we think we can turn him around to be more like the 4.36 guys from '18-'21.

[Nick]

Moon you keep talking about bad teams but other than Oakland who are they?

 

Cincy at one point was a bad team. St. Louis too.

 

We are the only East team with a losing record vs outside of the Division.

 

Just not sure how we are going to go on a streak with missing starters in our rotation.

 

We better sweep Oakland or its over.

[Duran Is The Man]

Honestly, I don't know. He could trade for 1-2, if they don't mind giving up some good prospects.

 

I could see him going after Snell and maybe keep Paxton. (Urias or Montgomery?)

Closer: Josh Hader?

SS; DeJung or Ahmed Rosario

 

i asked because it seems we're all geniuses after the fact on what should have been done. i admit that i'm no exception. just wondering who you and others think Bloom should be targeting this offseason to fill the obvious holes.

[Dipre]

Yamamoto.

[notin]

Yamamoto.

 

Worth noting - Yamamoto pitches for the Orix Buffalo, where until this year he was teammates with Masataka Yoshida…

[Dipre]

Worth noting - Yamamoto pitches for the Orix Buffalo, where until this year he was teammates with Masataka Yoshida…

 

You are my spirit animal.

[Bellhorn04]

i asked because it seems we're all geniuses after the fact on what should have been done. i admit that i'm no exception. just wondering who you and others think Bloom should be targeting this offseason to fill the obvious holes.

 

Whatever ideas we come up with will be different from Bloom's ideas. It comes as a shock when he does something obvious, like the Jansen signing...

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Whatever ideas we come up with will be different from Bloom's ideas. It comes as a shock when he does something obvious, like the Jansen signing...

 

"The owners made him!" ... sign Jansen... and Story and Devers... but forbid him from signing Betts or Bogaerts or Schwarber (as for Eovaldi -- that was just personal, from Nate dissing Chaim for last summer's deadline two-step).

 

The poor guy; all he's ever allowed to do on his own is scour waiver wires for castoffs from other organizations... and draft high school hitters.

[Dipre]

John Henry and to a lesser extent, Sam Kennedy have final say on whatever the team does. That's absolutely true. That's how a corporate structure works. We're not reinventing the wheel here.

[Maxbialystock]

Heck I'm not sure the Cardinals are going to give up. I think the Cardinals are much more likely to be buyers - if they sell, it will be small because they (correctly) think they should be good next year.

 

Cards are 35-51, so I doubt they will be buyers.

[Maxbialystock]

John Henry and to a lesser extent, Sam Kennedy have final say on whatever the team does. That's absolutely true. That's how a corporate structure works. We're not reinventing the wheel here.

 

True. But we also don't know to what degree those final says were in agreement with what Bloom recommended/wanted. I personally agree with not paying huge sums to keep Mookie and Bogey, especially with Dugo apparently emerging as a decent rightfielder and hitter. His WAR of 2.9 is highest on the Sox and not that far off Mookie's 3.8. Keeping Bogey with Story already signed and Mayer now at AA Portland made little sense to me.

 

I also think JH is against big free agent starter signings because of Sale and Price. I agree with that, but am also chagrinned that Eovaldi and Wacha, who were not re-signed last year, are doing so well this year. But last year I was fine with not re-signing them.

 

In any case, right now I'm back to agreeing with moonslav, who has not lost hope. The All-Star break could not come at a better time because apparently Chang is headed back and Story maybe after the ASG break. Sale is throwing, but not off the mound--apparently, the latest MRI was encouraging. He could be back in August. Houck should be back before then and apparently so should Whitlock.

 

So it's entirely possible Cora will have Paxton, Sale, Bello, Houck, Whitlock, and Crawford for the last two months of the season (and Houck and Whitlock possibly sooner). Plus a pretty decent outfield, a pretty good primary catcher, and an improved infield (at the plate as well as in the field).

 

The trick right now is to get through July, which for us fans should mean every game counts and every game is worth watching.

[Dipre]

True. But we also don't know to what degree those final says were in agreement with what Bloom recommended/wanted. I personally agree with not paying huge sums to keep Mookie and Bogey, especially with Dugo apparently emerging as a decent rightfielder and hitter. His WAR of 2.9 is highest on the Sox and not that far off Mookie's 3.8. Keeping Bogey with Story already signed and Mayer now at AA Portland made little sense to me.

 

I also think JH is against big free agent starter signings because of Sale and Price. I agree with that, but am also chagrinned that Eovaldi and Wacha, who were not re-signed last year, are doing so well this year. But last year I was fine with not re-signing them.

 

In any case, right now I'm back to agreeing with moonslav, who has not lost hope. The All-Star break could not come at a better time because apparently Chang is headed back and Story maybe after the ASG break. Sale is throwing, but not off the mound--apparently, the latest MRI was encouraging. He could be back in August. Houck should be back before then and apparently so should Whitlock.

 

So it's entirely possible Cora will have Paxton, Sale, Bello, Houck, Whitlock, and Crawford for the last two months of the season (and Houck and Whitlock possibly sooner). Plus a pretty decent outfield, a pretty good primary catcher, and an improved infield (at the plate as well as in the field).

 

The trick right now is to get through July, which for us fans should mean every game counts and every game is worth watching.

 

You hit the nail in the head. It just doesn't make sense to, A) Spend money on big contracts with high risk, and Spend money on big contracts with aging rosters that don't have the pipeline ready to feed them new players as the roster ages and declines. Look, it's really not a "them being cheap" issue. It's a common sense issue. The league has advanced past the "buying your way to a championship" stage. Why wouldn't the Red Sox adopt the model of the teams that are consistently winning? I just don't want them, personally, to win a couple of years then suck for four or five. I like the work they're doing with the farm, and only want them to spend big money on either elite, or high-upside controllable talent. The Mets, Padres , Yankees and Angels are a mess because they keep handing out big contracts and trading away young talent. Look at where that got them.

[Maxbialystock]

You hit the nail in the head. It just doesn't make sense to, A) Spend money on big contracts with high risk, and Spend money on big contracts with aging rosters that don't have the pipeline ready to feed them new players as the roster ages and declines. Look, it's really not a "them being cheap" issue. It's a common sense issue. The league has advanced past the "buying your way to a championship" stage. Why wouldn't the Red Sox adopt the model of the teams that are consistently winning? I just don't want them, personally, to win a couple of years then suck for four or five. I like the work they're doing with the farm, and only want them to spend big money on either elite, or high-upside controllable talent. The Mets, Padres , Yankees and Angels are a mess because they keep handing out big contracts and trading away young talent. Look at where that got them.

 

I like what the Sox are doing too even though specific moves can be painful. The point right now just might be that the new approach is working, but we don't see it because of the plethora of injuries.

[Dipre]

I like what the Sox are doing too even though specific moves can be painful. The point right now just might be that the new approach is working, but we don't see it because of the plethora of injuries.

 

Another note on the fact that we need to have some patience with the Red Sox' development plan: Duran looked lost last year, and basically everyone thought he was toast, but look at the adjustments he has made. Dude's been the best player on this team on a per-game basis. A bunch of people wanted Casas gone or traded, and he's improved substantially defensively and offensively. Development is not linear, and Sox fans, in general, have forgotten how to have patience because they've been spoiled by this era of Red Sox baseball, which a lot of people just don't seem to appreciate.

[Duran Is The Man]

Another note on the fact that we need to have some patience with the Red Sox' development plan: Duran looked lost last year, and basically everyone thought he was toast, but look at the adjustments he has made. Dude's been the best player on this team on a per-game basis. A bunch of people wanted Casas gone or traded, and he's improved substantially defensively and offensively. Development is not linear, and Sox fans, in general, have forgotten how to have patience because they've been spoiled by this era of Red Sox baseball, which a lot of people just don't seem to appreciate.

 

and Bello too. it seems like he gets better and better each week.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Another note on the fact that we need to have some patience with the Red Sox' development plan: Duran looked lost last year, and basically everyone thought he was toast, but look at the adjustments he has made. Dude's been the best player on this team on a per-game basis. A bunch of people wanted Casas gone or traded, and he's improved substantially defensively and offensively. Development is not linear, and Sox fans, in general, have forgotten how to have patience because they've been spoiled by this era of Red Sox baseball, which a lot of people just don't seem to appreciate.

 

How far back is "this era" -- I'm spoiled by seeing many Red Sox rookies or young players burst onto the scene and just rock the league in their first full years: Fisk, Lynn, Rice, Clemens, Boggs, Greenwell (2nd in MVP), Nomar, Pedroia, Ellsbury, Mookie...

 

Some notables that took a few years of adjustments: Dwight Evans, Varitek, Youk, Bogaerts... I'd say Raffy, but he's still making adjustments today to the league's adjustments to him.

[moonslav59]

Moon you keep talking about bad teams but other than Oakland who are they?

 

Cincy at one point was a bad team. St. Louis too.

 

We are the only East team with a losing record vs outside of the Division.

 

Just not sure how we are going to go on a streak with missing starters in our rotation.

 

We better sweep Oakland or its over.

 

You are right. There are very few really bad teams. The AL only has two teams out of it: OAK and KCR.

[dgalehouse]

The three wild card rule has changed the definition of what is a bad team. Now, you have to be truly awful to be completely out of contention at the half way point. I wonder how many teams will be " sellers" at the deadline ?

[moonslav59]

The three wild card rule has changed the definition of what is a bad team. Now, you have to be truly awful to be completely out of contention at the half way point. I wonder how many teams will be " sellers" at the deadline ?

 

The main thing keeping teams in the AL playoff race is both the 3 WC teams and a first place team in the ALC having a losing record. CLE, DET and CWS are closer to first place than the 4th team behind the e WC race.

[moonslav59]

CLE is 2 GB in the ALC but 5.5 behind the WC.

DET is 5.5 GB but out of the WC race.

CWS are about the same as DET.

[moonslav59]

If there was just one WC team, 3 teams would be within 4.5 games of BAL, who is playing poorly, of late. 7 teams would be within 8.5 games from BAL.

 

There are 8 teams within 8 games of their division leader, so it’s kinda not the 3rd WC as much as divisional races.

[notin]

The three wild card rule has changed the definition of what is a bad team. Now, you have to be truly awful to be completely out of contention at the half way point. I wonder how many teams will be " sellers" at the deadline ?

 

That is a valid point, coupled with how many potential sellers have a player worth acquiring. Especially one it makes sense to unload.

 

That’s why the Cardinals might be the most active sellers. Montgomery, Flaherty and possibly even Wainwright could be on the move…

[moonslav59]

12 of 15 teams are within 8.5 games of winning their division. We are one of the 3.

 

10 of 15 NL teams are in the same boat.

 

The WC really helps keep teams like us in it, and gives several teams 2ways to make it to the dance, but MLB has really been more balanced than I can ever remember, at this point in a season.

[Maxbialystock]

The three wild card rule has changed the definition of what is a bad team. Now, you have to be truly awful to be completely out of contention at the half way point. I wonder how many teams will be " sellers" at the deadline ?

 

Ahem. You need to understand the math of MLB. So let's start with .500, which you characterize as basically mediocre. Further, let's assume that a mediocre team team with 81 wins gets into the playoffs and plays a team that won 97 games with a winning percentage of .600 and finished a huge 16 games ahead of the mediocre team.

 

Mathematically--that is, ignoring matchups, etc--the woebegone .500 team has almost as good a chance of winning a 1 game playoff, a 5 game playoff, or a 7 game playoff series as the .600 team.

 

The simple fact is that, because a MLB season lasts a freaking 162 games (6 games a week for six months), we look at standings and games behind and all that stuff and don't realize that the winning percentages are actually pretty close.

[Bellhorn04]

Ahem. You need to understand the math of MLB. So let's start with .500, which you characterize as basically mediocre. Further, let's assume that a mediocre team team with 81 wins gets into the playoffs and plays a team that won 97 games with a winning percentage of .600 and finished a huge 16 games ahead of the mediocre team.

 

Mathematically--that is, ignoring matchups, etc--the woebegone .500 team has almost as good a chance of winning a 1 game playoff, a 5 game playoff, or a 7 game playoff series as the .600 team.

 

The simple fact is that, because a MLB season lasts a freaking 162 games (6 games a week for six months), we look at standings and games behind and all that stuff and don't realize that the winning percentages are actually pretty close.

 

This year is probably the biggest free-for-all ever, though, what with the 3 Wild Card spots in each league and the overall parity that seems to be showing up in the records.