A Realistic View of 2023: Part II

[mvp 78]

Probably won’t see Ceddanne until the Portland OPS vaults up over the .600 mark…

 

They wanted him to work on pitch recognition this offseason and it hasn't gotten any better. He just might be who it is and it may never get better. If that's the case, just call him up and let him be a GG defender with a bad bat. Or trade him while his value is high?

[notin]

Why else would you trade a player unless he SUCKED?

 

Because he was a clubhouse cancer bringing the team down from the inside due to his incessant toenail clipping that launched shrapnel all over the dugout.

 

That’s why the Sox traded Babe Ruth…

[mvp 78]

Because he was a clubhouse cancer bringing the team down from the inside due to his incessant toenail clipping that launched shrapnel all over the dugout.

 

That’s why the Sox traded Babe Ruth…

 

Horrid. The real curse was that they didn't trade his ass sooner!

[Hugh2]

Probably won’t see Ceddanne until the Portland OPS vaults up over the .600 mark…

 

If the Sox thought Ceddanne was close to being ready they'd have started him in AAA. He needs serious work with the bat, the Sox aren't messing up his development. Unless it's the end of the year.

 

If it's late August and the Sox really need a body and improved D then you don't waste a lot by brining him up with the minor league season close to over. But at this point I wouldn't be 100% surprised if we don't see him in the majors at all this year.

[moonslav59]

You can provide a foundation for future seasons, without putting garbage on the field in the meantime.

 

Of course. I would not count 2020, and even 2021 saw very limited added spending, but I expected better than this after 3 years and the recent opening up to spending way more.

[mvp 78]

Of course. I would not count 2020, and even 2021 saw very limited added spending, but I expected better than this after 3 years and the recent opening up to spending way more.

 

I'd give Bloom a pass for everything up through 2022 since those were technically guys picked by a previous GM. Now, this is Chaim's team. Aside from Sale, these are all his guys. He can hide one bad contract and build a team. If he can't work around one dead contract, he needs to find a different job.

[redsoxrules]

Devers is not a fan fave?

 

I know: just one sucks.

 

Actually he's not. He's no where near the top for Jersey sales. In Fact people buy more Kike Jerseys than they do for Devers. I know it's not all about jersey sale but that's a good I indication who the fan favorites are. I mean when I go to Fenway I rarely see Devers Jerseys in the ballpark. Mind you I haven't been there this year so there might be more than previous years.

 

Of all the talent they had on this team he would of been the last for me to get that deal and for most fans

[mvp 78]

Actually he's not. He's no where near the top for Jersey sales. In Fact people buy more Kike Jerseys than they do for Devers. I know it's not all about jersey sale but that's a good I indication who the fan favorites are. I mean when I go to Fenway I rarely see Devers Jerseys in the ballpark. Mind you I haven't been there this year so there might be more than previous years.

 

Of all the talent they had on this team he would of been the last for me to get that deal and for most fans

 

Kiké was selling jerseys in 2021. He was top 10 before the year started and well out of the top 20 by the end of the season. I don't think he's still selling jerseys now.

[jad]

Been a diehard for over half a century. The Red Sox always had star players. Fans don't watch because they like the uniforms or the manager or even the ballpark and the singalong played in the 7th-inning stretch. It's because of the talented, mostly-homegrown fan favorites.

 

The big market Red Sox always made sure to keep their best draws through their primes. Before the Bloom Error, the only time they blew it was in the early days of free agency when front office conflicts led to exits by Fisk and Lynn. After that, they were always in the market for big money recruits.

 

Boston never won it all with those star players until '04. But the Sox were almost always good, and at least competitive and interesting.

 

Now they're none of those things.

 

I think we've been fans about the same length of time, and I agree 100% with this. There has never been a team as bad and unlikable as this one: even the Bobby Valentine year was at least amusing. I can get better baseball than this by going to Portland for the SeaDogs, which the Bloom apologists here will take as proof that he has rebuilt the farm.

[moonslav59]

I'd give Bloom a pass for everything up through 2022 since those were technically guys picked by a previous GM. Now, this is Chaim's team. Aside from Sale, these are all his guys. He can hide one bad contract and build a team. If he can't work around one dead contract, he needs to find a different job.

 

100%.

 

This is Bloom's team. The Sale contract and performance is just a fraction of the budget and 2023 performance let down.

 

He should sink or swim based on this year and how we look going forward.

[moonslav59]

Actually he's not. He's no where near the top for Jersey sales. In Fact people buy more Kike Jerseys than they do for Devers. I know it's not all about jersey sale but that's a good I indication who the fan favorites are. I mean when I go to Fenway I rarely see Devers Jerseys in the ballpark. Mind you I haven't been there this year so there might be more than previous years.

 

Of all the talent they had on this team he would of been the last for me to get that deal and for most fans

 

For me:

1. Betts

2. Devers

3. Bogey but not at anywhere near what he wanted. Sorry.

 

[mvp 78]

I think we've been fans about the same length of time, and I agree 100% with this. There has never been a team as bad and unlikable as this one: even the Bobby Valentine year was at least amusing. I can get better baseball than this by going to Portland for the SeaDogs, which the Bloom apologists here will take as proof that he has rebuilt the farm.

 

That's just wrong. This team isn't unlikeable. This team will most likely even be better than 2012, 2014, 2015, 2020 and 2022. The results just are bad right now.

 

What players on here are unlikeable?

[Bellhorn04]

3. Bogey but not at anywhere near what he wanted. Sorry.

 

 

I thought we agreed that nobody knew what he would have taken pre-2022?

[mvp 78]

I thought we agreed that nobody knew what he would have taken pre-2022?

 

180/6

[Bellhorn04]

180/6

 

I think he would have taken that.

[dgalehouse]

Well, after the Flop at the Trop , it will be interesting to see if the Sox can rebound on this seven game home stand against the Angels and Twins , two decent but beatable teams.

[moonslav59]

I thought we agreed that nobody knew what he would have taken pre-2022?

 

We don't know.

 

We do know the Sox never offered what he wanted or would take.

 

Maybe he'd have taken $200/8 or $180/7. Some think he might have taken $160M/6. I'd have give the $160 maybe the others. I don't think he'd have taken any of those, but that's just me.

 

I'll leave it at that.

 

Either way, I have Devers second.

[redsoxrules]

Betts

Bogey

Devers

 

Bogey is undervalued. He's very consistent. IMO he's better than Devers if you factor all aspects.

[moonslav59]

Betts

Bogey

Devers

 

Bogey is undervalued. He's very consistent. IMO he's better than Devers if you factor all aspects.

 

Certainly reasonable, and both Bogey and Devers are not known for their defense, but the age thing tilted the balance for me. I think Devers can and might still get better!

[Bellhorn04]

Betts

Bogey

Devers

 

Bogey is undervalued. He's very consistent. IMO he's better than Devers if you factor all aspects.

 

fWAR per 150 games for career to date:

 

Bogaerts 4.13

Devers 3.98

 

So pretty close.

 

The main plus for Devers is in the age category.

[mvp 78]

fWAR per 150 games for career to date:

 

Bogaerts 4.13

Devers 3.98

 

So pretty close.

 

The main plus for Devers is in the age category.

 

Devers' career is weighed down more by his age 20 and 21 seasons. Xander has had more years to negate the growing pains of the early years.

[Bellhorn04]

Devers' career is weighed down more by his age 20 and 21 seasons. Xander has had more years to negate the growing pains of the early years.

 

Agreed.

[moonslav59]

Devers' career is weighed down more by his age 20 and 21 seasons. Xander has had more years to negate the growing pains of the early years.

 

Indeed, and Devers is still in peak prime.

 

Ages 22-25

16.5 fWAR Devers: 14.2 bWAR/ 132 OPS+

16.1 fWAR Bogey: 15.3 bWAR/ 111 OPS+

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Certainly reasonable, and both Bogey and Devers are not known for their defense, but the age thing tilted the balance for me. I think Devers can and might still get better!

 

He has the hand-eye coordination, strength and balance to become a lefty Miggy when he matures... or if he wants to be. I know some fans don't want Raffy to mess with his swing, which is 90% all or nothing, but imagine how much more productive he could be -- and healthier -- if he reduced swinging from the heels to just 50% of the time.

 

This may be unfair, but considering the situations we've seen Devers batting in so far, the Sox might actually have another win or two already if he just tried to drill a few more opposite-field line drives.

[Bellhorn04]

One more time we get the better pitching when Wong is behind the plate...

[Nick]

One more time we get the better pitching when Wong is behind the plate...

 

Good news is that despite not having had a starter have a "quality" start, Sox are only 2 GB of the last wild card spot, tied with Houston and Seattle.

 

It's got to get better, right?

 

Monday is another must watch TV with Bello getting the start. I also want to see Whitlock's second start.

[notin]

Betts

Bogey

Devers

 

Bogey is undervalued. He's very consistent. IMO he's better than Devers if you factor all aspects.

 

I can see your point, but will he be from 31-40?

[Hugh2]

One more time we get the better pitching when Wong is behind the plate...

 

At this point there’s no reason to believe it’s not coincidence.

[moonslav59]

fWAR per 150 games for career to date:

 

Bogaerts 4.13

Devers 3.98

 

So pretty close.

 

The main plus for Devers is in the age category.

 

And what he's done from age 23-26 vs Bogey.

 

They both came up very early, and I'm not so sure why ages 20-21 seasons should weigh the same as later seasons.

 

The age aspect is a huge factor. Bogey is more than 4 years older. If we set prime years from 26-31 (6 years), Bogey turns 31 at the very end of his very first year of this deal, so maybe 1-2 years in prime and the rest post-prime! Devers, with his extensions starting next year, will turn 31 after his 5 season under contract. 5 seasons in prime and 5 post prime.

 

2 out of 11 prime vs 5 out of 10 prime.

 

I should also point out that the last 5 years of the Devers deal will be ages 32-36, while Bogey's last 6 will be at ages 35-40. This later comp might show more disparity than the first 5 year comp, but who knows how any player wil age out?

 

[Bellhorn04]

At this point there’s no reason to believe it’s not coincidence.

 

It may well be. I would really like to see Wong catch Sale though, to see if there are better results. Kluber did have his only good game out of 3 pitching to Wong.