A Realistic View of 2023: Part II

[mvp 78]

Other Philly trades: (I have not heard of many of these guys.)

Hao-Yu Lee for Lorenzen

Billy Sullivan for Cristian Pache

Vierling, Maton & Sands for Kody Clemens and Gregory Soto

Moniak & J Sanchez for Syndergaard

Ben Brown for David Robertson

Logan O'Hoppe for Brandon Marsh (I know O'Hoppe was a highly regarded catching prospect.)

JoJo Romero for Edmundo Sosa

Picardo for Norwood

Haseley for M Moore

Toffey for L Williams

Joel Valdez for N Nelson & D Sands

Spencer Howard, Gessner & K Gowdy for Crouse, Ian Kennedy and K Gibson

 

This what I found since the 2021 deadline.

 

 

Top prospects traded per the above:

Lee

O'Hoppe

Vierling

Brown

Romero

 

The rest were outside their top 20 on the rankings I looked at (FanGraphs and Baseball America).

[moonslav59]

Top prospects traded per the above:

Lee

O'Hoppe

Vierling

Brown

Romero

 

The rest were outside their top 20 on the rankings I looked at (FanGraphs and Baseball America).

 

Thanks.

 

It appears he is following a similar path with PHI as with BOS: trade prospects and spend money.

[mvp 78]

Thanks.

 

It appears he is following a similar path with PHI as with BOS: trade prospects and spend money.

 

And it's not necessarily just "trading the big names," but also trading a bunch of the inventory down on the farm. When you do that, you run into situation like BOS had in 21-23 where you just run out of replacement options and have big holes in your lineup (Jack Lopez, Yairo Munoz, Danny Santana, Franchy, Abraham Almonte, Yolmer Sanchez, etc.).

[Bellhorn04]

So, "luck" makes DD the winner in 2023?

 

A win is a win. Many baseball games and even championships are decided by luck.

[Bellhorn04]

The time is past due for MLB to adopt technology assisted strike zone management. Too many bad calls in critical game situations when the technology exists to avoid the problems.

 

Agree 100%.

[Dipre]

And it's not necessarily just "trading the big names," but also trading a bunch of the inventory down on the farm. When you do that, you run into situation like BOS had in 21-23 where you just run out of replacement options and have big holes in your lineup (Jack Lopez, Yairo Munoz, Danny Santana, Franchy, Abraham Almonte, Yolmer Sanchez, etc.).

 

Why do you insist on making sense?

[moonslav59]

And it's not necessarily just "trading the big names," but also trading a bunch of the inventory down on the farm. When you do that, you run into situation like BOS had in 21-23 where you just run out of replacement options and have big holes in your lineup (Jack Lopez, Yairo Munoz, Danny Santana, Franchy, Abraham Almonte, Yolmer Sanchez, etc.).

 

Good point.

[moonslav59]

A win is a win. Many baseball games and even championships are decided by luck.

 

True, but I would not go out of my way to say DD did a better job than Bloom, this year, if it was more about just being in the "right" division and having an easier schedule.

[Bellhorn04]

And it's not necessarily just "trading the big names," but also trading a bunch of the inventory down on the farm. When you do that, you run into situation like BOS had in 21-23 where you just run out of replacement options and have big holes in your lineup (Jack Lopez, Yairo Munoz, Danny Santana, Franchy, Abraham Almonte, Yolmer Sanchez, etc.).

 

Does this mean Bloom had no better options than guys like Franchy and Santana?

 

Part of the reason the 2023 Sox are staying afloat is that Bloom did find some good cheap options like Reyes and now Urias.

[Bellhorn04]

True, but I would not go out of my way to say DD did a better job than Bloom, this year, if it was more about just being in the "right" division and having an easier schedule.

 

Some enjoy academic discussions about who did a better job. Some only care about bottom line results.

[moonslav59]

Some enjoy academic discussions about who did a better job. Some only care about bottom line results.

 

Some include strength of schedule and division/league and W-L record as part of the "bottom line." (The Sox may pass PHI in W-L by season end- or not.)

[moonslav59]

Does this mean Bloom had no better options than guys like Franchy and Santana?

 

Part of the reason the 2023 Sox are staying afloat is that Bloom did find some good cheap options like Reyes and now Urias.

 

I'd include Bernardino in that mix.

[mvp 78]

Does this mean Bloom had no better options than guys like Franchy and Santana?

 

Part of the reason the 2023 Sox are staying afloat is that Bloom did find some good cheap options like Reyes and now Urias.

 

This FO lucked into finding Reyes and got Urias for a good deal. Previously, they were trying to fill holes with replacement level guys that had zero upside. When you consistently have to do that, rather than use AAA prospects that may have a higher ceiling, you're limiting that value you are providing to your team. For example, if Yorke or Rafaela were in AAA earlier this year, they are likely called up to fill the gaps rather than running to the waiver wire.

 

The biggest problem this pipeline currently has is high level pitching in the upper minors. It should look better next season as SoxProspects projects the following for AAA bullpen: Liu, Fernandez, Guerrero, Zeferjahn, Politi. That doesn't include guys with prior MLB experience like Robertson, Kelly, Jacques. They may not all work out, but that group could provide a much better spark than what we got at times from Faria, Scott, Lamet, Dermody, Garza, etc.

[mvp 78]

Some enjoy academic discussions about who did a better job. Some only care about bottom line results.

 

It's hard to say who is doing a better job because I think they are set out to do two different things. DD's one singular goal is to make it to the playoffs. Bloom's goal is to grow the farm and turn the franchise into a long term steamroller like the Dodgers while staying competitive. I think the MLB results are important, but secondary to the Sox FO.

[mvp 78]

I'd include Bernardino in that mix.

 

He's been good. I think both Reyes and Bernardino were good finds for 2023, but I don't think they are guys you can count on for multiple years.

[mvp 78]

@bostonsportsinf

Red Sox

 

Strength of remaining schedule

 

Hardest in the AL

1. Red Sox - .541

2. Guardians - .527

3. Rays - .521

[Bellhorn04]

Some include strength of schedule and division/league and W-L record as part of the "bottom line."

 

Yes, those would definitely be the academics.

[vegasbob]

@bostonsportsinf

Red Sox

 

Strength of remaining schedule

 

Hardest in the AL

1. Red Sox - .541

2. Guardians - .527

3. Rays - .521

 

To get to WC #3 , the Red Sox will need to post a .600 win rate against these opponents , and Seattle will have to start losing a few each week. When it is all done October 1 if the Sox miss by 2 or 3 games, it will be easy to find those missed wins over the past 6 months.

 

Finishing with 4 against the Orioles will be interesting because will the O's be positioning their starters for the playoffs, resting some regulars or going all out to get home field or beat the Rays for 1st?

[mvp 78]

To get to WC #3 , the Red Sox will need to post a .600 win rate against these opponents , and Seattle will have to start losing a few each week. When it is all done October 1 if the Sox miss by 2 or 3 games, it will be easy to find those missed wins over the past 6 months.

 

Finishing with 4 against the Orioles will be interesting because will the O's be positioning their starters for the playoffs, resting some regulars or going all out to get home field or beat the Rays for 1st?

 

Maybe they luck into some resting players at the end, but they really need to take the series against HOU and TOR that are coming up.

[vegasbob]

Maybe they luck into some resting players at the end, but they really need to take the series against HOU and TOR that are coming up.

 

7 games with the Astros over the next 10 days, sandwiched around a set with the Dodgers is definitely the toughest stretch this team has seen in a long while. In reality land 5-5 would be an expected outcome. But they need 7-3.

[moonslav59]

7 games with the Astros over the next 10 days, sandwiched around a set with the Dodgers is definitely the toughest stretch this team has seen in a long while. In reality land 5-5 would be an expected outcome. But they need 7-3.

 

6-4 might be okay, if it's 5-2 v HOU and 1-2 v LAD.

[notin]

Just one? What's up with that?

 

1. Probably others, but that involves research. Moniak I just recall.

2. I don’t think he inherited a ton of good prospects. He did hold on to some (Bryson Stott). He also dealt away a few that have turned into OK players (Matt Vaerling), but I don’t know what type of prospect most them were…

[notin]

@bostonsportsinf

Red Sox

 

Strength of remaining schedule

 

Hardest in the AL

1. Red Sox - .541

2. Guardians - .527

3. Rays - .521

 

So.. not a lot of those pesky losing teams that keep beating us?

[Dipre]

So.. not a lot of those pesky losing teams that keep beating us?

 

Lol true.

[Duran Is The Man]

So, "luck" makes DD the winner in 2023?

 

don't forget JH's wallet. big win there. mega-yachts don't pay for themselves.

[mvp 78]

don't forget JH's wallet. big win there. mega-yachts don't pay for themselves.

 

https://www.yachtcharterfleet.com/luxury-charter-yacht-48111/elysian-photos.htm

 

Don't worry, he saves money on taxes because of how he flags the big dumb boat, which helped with the refit he did of it in 2020. He's probably put about 130-150M into it (purchase, refit, annual costs).

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

He's been good. I think both Reyes and Bernardino were good finds for 2023, but I don't think they are guys you can count on for multiple years.

 

At this point, I'd settle for multiple outings.

 

This is my way of finally praising Llovera, who looked good for a couple of innings vs. the Skanks. Of course, it easier to pitch with a big lead. At least it should be...

[moonslav59]

To get to WC #3 , the Red Sox will need to post a .600 win rate against these opponents , and Seattle will have to start losing a few each week. When it is all done October 1 if the Sox miss by 2 or 3 games, it will be easy to find those missed wins over the past 6 months.

 

Finishing with 4 against the Orioles will be interesting because will the O's be positioning their starters for the playoffs, resting some regulars or going all out to get home field or beat the Rays for 1st?

 

We may not need SEA to lose, if we pass HOU and TOR- the teams we play head-to-head.

[moonslav59]

1. Probably others, but that involves research. Moniak I just recall.

2. I don’t think he inherited a ton of good prospects. He did hold on to some (Bryson Stott). He also dealt away a few that have turned into OK players (Matt Vaerling), but I don’t know what type of prospect most them were…

 

We covered this...

 

Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post

Other Philly trades: (I have not heard of many of these guys.)

Hao-Yu Lee for Lorenzen

Billy Sullivan for Cristian Pache

Vierling, Maton & Sands for Kody Clemens and Gregory Soto

Moniak & J Sanchez for Syndergaard

Ben Brown for David Robertson

Logan O'Hoppe for Brandon Marsh (I know O'Hoppe was a highly regarded catching prospect.)

JoJo Romero for Edmundo Sosa

Picardo for Norwood

Haseley for M Moore

Toffey for L Williams

Joel Valdez for N Nelson & D Sands

Spencer Howard, Gessner & K Gowdy for Crouse, Ian Kennedy and K Gibson

 

This what I found since the 2021 deadline.

 

MVP responded....

 

Top prospects traded per the above:

Lee

O'Hoppe

Vierling

Brown

Romero

 

The rest were outside their top 20 on the rankings I looked at (FanGraphs and Baseball America).

[mvp 78]

We may not need SEA to lose, if we pass HOU and TOR- the teams we play head-to-head.

 

They need to pass 2 out of 3 of them somehow. It's a tall task that gets much taller if they don't really take it to the Astros this month.