A Realistic View of 2023: Part II

[mvp 78]

I think moon was actually trying for some humor there.

 

[moonslav59]

 

Of course any team rich enough can trade for Sale.

 

It's funny how the Dodgers have a long history of doing just that.

[Hugh2]

But what’s the point in trading Sale?

 

You’d have to give up a prospect to get rid of the salary. Or eat all the money to get something in return. Or something inbetween that who knows.

 

But here’s why you don’t trade him. He’s a sunk cost, and after this season his salary should have less bearing on team building decisions. Because, the Sox set this year. And by the time they want to reset again Sale will be off the books.

 

Sale is here to stay.

[mvp 78]

Of course any team rich enough can trade for Sale.

 

It's funny how the Dodgers have a long history of doing just that.

 

Why can't the Sox be a rich team? It's the same CBT!

[mvp 78]

But what’s the point in trading Sale?

 

You’d have to give up a prospect to get rid of the salary. Or eat all the money to get something in return. Or something inbetween that who knows.

 

But here’s why you don’t trade him. He’s a sunk cost, and after this season his salary should have less bearing on team building decisions. Because, the Sox set this year. And by the time they want to reset again Sale will be off the books.

 

Sale is here to stay.

 

He should just be the 5th starter.

[moonslav59]

Why can't the Sox be a rich team? It's the same CBT!

 

None of us have that answer.

[moonslav59]

But what’s the point in trading Sale?

 

You’d have to give up a prospect to get rid of the salary. Or eat all the money to get something in return. Or something inbetween that who knows.

 

But here’s why you don’t trade him. He’s a sunk cost, and after this season his salary should have less bearing on team building decisions. Because, the Sox set this year. And by the time they want to reset again Sale will be off the books.

 

Sale is here to stay.

 

Agreed.

[moonslav59]

He should just be the 5th starter.

 

We should plan on him as SP depth, not as a 1-5 slot pitcher.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

They have a long history of taking our high-priced players off our hands- the good (Betts), the bad (AGon & Beckett) and the ugly (Crawford & Price.)

 

wa-awa-awaa... wa-WAAAH-waa......

[dgalehouse]

Ballplayers salaries are made public information , so we expect them to be " worth it. " Most people don't have to deal with that. We don't really know how much money the owners are making, but it has been speculated that the Red Sox are worth 5 billion and upwards on the market. But they are afraid of the dreaded " luxury tax. " Meanwhile, the owners and MLB in general bleed every last dollar they can out of the fans. That is why there are three wild cards. That is why you can pay to subscribe to NESN or the Extra Innings package and find out that some games are blacked out and some are only available on Prime, Apple+ or Peacock. That is why you are paying high ticket and ridiculous consession prices. That is why you can buy an overpriced jersey of your kid's favorite player only to see that the player has been traded because " we " could no longer afford to pay him. And so it goes.

[dgalehouse]

By the way, the much maligned David Price was a whole heck of a lot better than most of the jabronis we have been running out there the last few seasons.

[moonslav59]

By the way, the much maligned David Price was a whole heck of a lot better than most of the jabronis we have been running out there the last few seasons.

 

Not really, and certainly not for his last 4 years of the deal, and when he was on the IL for half his second year of the deal.

 

$210M for 2.5 decent seasons.

 

10 Kluber+ 10 Richards + 7 Perez + 6 Perez + 7 Wacha + 5 Hill= $45M for about one decent season.

 

If you want to count Nate...

Edited August 18, 2023 by moonslav59

[moonslav59]

Ballplayers salaries are made public information , so we expect them to be " worth it. " Most people don't have to deal with that. We don't really know how much money the owners are making, but it has been speculated that the Red Sox are worth 5 billion and upwards on the market. But they are afraid of the dreaded " luxury tax. " Meanwhile, the owners and MLB in general bleed every last dollar they can out of the fans. That is why there are three wild cards. That is why you can pay to subscribe to NESN or the Extra Innings package and find out that some games are blacked out and some are only available on Prime, Apple+ or Peacock. That is why you are paying high ticket and ridiculous consession prices. That is why you can buy an overpriced jersey of your kid's favorite player only to see that the player has been traded because " we " could no longer afford to pay him. And so it goes.

 

Totally different debate, and I agree with you on this.

 

However, every team should do this, and then what happens to salaries?

[dgalehouse]

Not really, and certainly not for his last 4 years of the deal, and when he was on the IL for half his second year of the deal.

 

$210M for 2.5 decent seasons.

 

10 Kluber+ 10 Richards + 7 Perez + 6 Perez + 7 Wacha + 5 Hill= $45M for about one decent season.

 

If you want to **** Nate...

 

You might want to go back and clean this post up.

[moonslav59]

For those who think free agency is the solution to adding an ace or solid #2 to our staff, take a look at the list of the highest paid pitchers from the FA market and extensions, ever:

 

$M/yrs

324/10 Cole

245/7 Strasburg

217/7 Price

215/7 Kershaw

210/7 Scherzer ('15-'21)

207/6 Greinke ('16-'21)

185/5 deGrom ('23-'27)

180/7 Verlander

162/6 Rodon

161/7 CC Sab ('09-'15)

155/7 Tanaka

155/6 Lester

147/6 Greinke ('13-'18)

145/5 Sale

144/6 Hamels

140/6 Corbin

138/6 J Santana

138/5 deGrom ('19-'23)

131/7 Berrios

130/6 Cueto

130/3 Scherzer ('22-'24)

128/6 M Cain

126/7 Zito

126/6 Darvish

122/5 CC Sab ('12-'16)

120/5 C Lee

118/5 Wheeler

115/5 R Ray

110/5 Zimmerman

110/5 Gausman

108/5 L Castillo (extension)

108/6 Darvish ('23-'28)

105/7 K Brown (back in the Stone Age)

102/5 Bauer

100/5 Musgrove

 

How many from this list of 35 were clear winning deals for the team?

How many were good deals or better?

How many were okay or better?

 

Yes, some are still pending.

 

How many were clear stinkers or look to be?

 

 

[moonslav59]

Thanks to some nice additions from the DD and Bloom regimes, our young core of players sure looks a lot better than it did in 2020.

 

27 or younger

Devers

Casas

Bello

Duran

Wong

Crawford

Houck

Whitlock

Winckowski

Verdugo

Urias

Murphy, Walter, Robertson

EValdez, DHam

 

28-29

Yoshida

Schreiber

McGuire

Reyes

Kelly

 

Top Farm

Mayer, Anthony, Teel, Rafaela, Bleis

Cespedes, Wikelman, Zanetello, Perales, Yorke

Joh Garcia, Romero, Meidroth, Hickey, Abreu

 

2020:

27 or Younger

Bogey

Devers

Beni

Verdugo

Chavis, Dalbec

JTaylor

 

28-29

Vaz

Plawecki

 

Farm

Casas

Bello

Houck

Duran

Dalbec

Wong

Murphy

Mata

Downs, Chatham

DHern, Groome, Song, Ward

 

[moonslav59]

The next two series:

 

BOS: @NYY, @HOU

SEA: @HOU, @CWS

TOR: @CIN, @BAL

HOU: SEA, BOS

TBR: @LAA, COL

TEX: MIL, @AZ

 

[moonslav59]

BOS & SEA won

HOU & TOR lost

 

Updated Standings:

 

70-53 HOU WC2

67-55 SEA WC3 (a new leader)

 

67-56 TOR -0.5

64-58 BOS -2.5 (on pace for 85-77 record)

 

[moonslav59]

The Sox OPS Leader Board remains as tight as ever...

 

.850 Devers

.838 Turner

.836 Casas

.832 Duran

.831 Yoshida

.815 Duvall (221 PAs)

.776 Verdugo

.765 Reyes (123 PAs)

 

After AS Break

1.153 Casas

.934 Devers

.928 Reyes

.875 Turner

.770 McGuire

.766 Duvall

.728 Duran

.716 Urias

.675 Yoshida

.628 Story

.617 Wong

.569 Dugo

.522 Ref

 

 

[moonslav59]

Post ASB ERAs (9+ IP)

 

0.73 Martin

1.86 Jansen

 

3.14 Crawford

3.18 Bernardino

3.21 Winckowski

3.31 Pivetta

 

4.00 Sale

4.35 Schreiber

4.45 Paxton

 

5.00 Murphy

5.03 Bello

 

[Nick]

For every bad signing for the Sox, Yankees have done one worse it seems.

 

Kike for 1 year $10M?

Yanks signed Aaron Hicks to a 6 year $60M. Ouch.

 

Kluber for $10M? Yankees gave Severino an extension, a 4 year $40M deal.

 

What about big bucks given to Rondon? $160M?

 

I guess it could be worse. Cashman could be our GM.

Edited August 19, 2023 by Nick

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Varitek (bench coach, ex-player) put an Underdog t-shirt in the locker of Cora (manager, ex-player).

 

Cora wore it in the dugout during a pregame interview. Story and pic are posted on the NESN website.

 

https://nesn.com/2023/08/why-alex-cora-wore-underdog-shirt-before-red-sox-yankees-series/

 

It doesn't state the obvious -- which isn't that gamblers made the Yankees the favorites on a Friday night in the Bronx. But the ex-players aren't even being subtle.

[moonslav59]

In this "watered down" league, the Sox are 1.5 games behind #10 MIL and a slot in the top tier of MLB (top third winning %.)

 

What seems strange to me was it seemed like we started the year off playing the toughest schedule and now have the toughest one to finish the season. It's not so much we had a very easy middle schedule. I think teams like PIT had a winning record earlier, when they swept us, and now they suck. (Now, the Yanks are below .500.)

 

Some perfect symmetry: The Yanks are 1.5 games from the bottom tier!

[notin]

In this "watered down" league, the Sox are 1.5 games behind #10 MIL and a slot in the top tier of MLB (top third winning %.)

 

What seems strange to me was it seemed like we started the year off playing the toughest schedule and now have the toughest one to finish the season. It's not so much we had a very easy middle schedule. I think teams like PIT had a winning record earlier, when they swept us, and now they suck. (Now, the Yanks are below .500.)

 

Some perfect symmetry: The Yanks are 1.5 games from the bottom tier!

 

Did the Sox start off with a tough schedule? I remember Baltimore to start, but Pitt and Detroit were in there too…

[a700hitter]

The only reason that this team is better than last years team is that we lock down more wins with the back of the bullpen. Last year, that part of the game was atrocious. Jansen and Martin have stabilized that aspect. Other than that, this team is just as bad as last years’ team, maybe worse after losing Eovaldi and Wacha.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

The only reason that this team is better than last years team is that we lock down more wins with the back of the bullpen. Last year, that part of the game was atrocious. Jansen and Martin have stabilized that aspect. Other than that, this team is just as bad as last years’ team, maybe worse after losing Eovaldi and Wacha.

 

I can't argue with this post. And the D is worse than last year's club, which at least had Bogaerts at shortstop all season.

 

The O features different guys, but has the same rank in runs per game -- 4th in the league, just like in '22... and '21... and '19... hell, the Sox were even 5th in '20 (and first, of course, in '18). But the issue isn't ever how many runs the Sox average, but how many games they consistently score enough to stay close.

[moonslav59]

Did the Sox start off with a tough schedule? I remember Baltimore to start, but Pitt and Detroit were in there too…

 

That was my point. At the time PIT had a very good record, and we had faced more .500+ teams than anyone else. Now PIT sucks, and it looks like the early schedule was more against losing teams.

[moonslav59]

The only reason that this team is better than last years team is that we lock down more wins with the back of the bullpen. Last year, that part of the game was atrocious. Jansen and Martin have stabilized that aspect. Other than that, this team is just as bad as last years’ team, maybe worse after losing Eovaldi and Wacha.

 

Yes, and when you figure much of our pen was forced into the rotation, the ranking's swing is even more stark.

fWAR Rankings

 

SP

24th in 2023

18th in 2022

 

RP

10th in 2023

27th in 2022

[Larry Cook]

Could we have gotten a quality prospect for Martin at the trade deadline? I think so

[Bellhorn04]

Could we have gotten a quality prospect for Martin at the trade deadline? I think so

 

Quite possibly. Doesn't make it a good idea though.