A Realistic View of 2023: Part II

[moonslav59]

And his worst month is .793.

 

Good thing the whole season counts.

 

The bottom line as of now is, JD is having a fine bounceback season, but in spite of that, Turner was the better signing. Everybody wins.

 

I'm happy JD is doing well in LA.

 

I'm glad he did not go to the Yanks, Jays or O's.

[Bellhorn04]

I'm happy JD is doing well in LA.

 

I'm glad he did not go to the Yanks, Jays or O's.

 

Yes, very good point.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Yes, very good point.

 

Yankees outfield is so bad they'd make JD break his old glove out of mothballs. Then he'd have to tiptoe around the new pizza boxes; how long would it take him to join Judge on the IL?

[Jasonbay44]

I'm happy JD is doing well in LA.

 

I'm glad he did not go to the Yanks, Jays or O's.

 

I’m glad he’s doing well, same with Mookie. I’m not gonna root for the Dodgers to win games or anything but I have no problem rooting for former Sox players who played their ass off while here and contributed to great memories, including a championship.

[moonslav59]

I’m glad he’s doing well, same with Mookie. I’m not gonna root for the Dodgers to win games or anything but I have no problem rooting for former Sox players who played their ass off while here and contributed to great memories, including a championship.

 

All those guys will hold a a special place in my heart.

[Old Red]

I’m glad he’s doing well, same with Mookie. I’m not gonna root for the Dodgers to win games or anything but I have no problem rooting for former Sox players who played their ass off while here and contributed to great memories, including a championship.

 

It’s funny I haven’t heard any Mookie Who comments like there were on here after the first time the Red Sox had a winning streak. Dugy has turned into a good ball player, but he will never be in a class like Mookie.

[Hugh2]

It’s funny I haven’t heard any Mookie Who comments like there were on here after the first time the Red Sox had a winning streak. Dugy has turned into a good ball player, but he will never be in a class like Mookie.

 

No but 5 years of Verdugo is > 1/3 year off Betts. Over and over and over again.

[Bellhorn04]

No but 5 years of Verdugo is > 1/3 year off Betts. Over and over and over again.

 

That's true, but we also gave the Dodgers the chance to extend Betts, and they capitalized.

 

I also find it amusing that we do the 1/3 year thing for Betts's 2020, but not for Verdugo's 2020.

[moonslav59]

That's true, but we also gave the Dodgers the chance to extend Betts, and they capitalized.

 

I also find it amusing that we do the 1/3 year thing for Betts's 2020, but not for Verdugo's 2020.

 

Is 4.3 for 0.3 better?

Plus 5 Wong.

Plus the addition by subtraction of Price

[Old Red]

No but 5 years of Verdugo is > 1/3 year off Betts. Over and over and over again.

 

But that could have all changed if JH wanted it to. A player like Mookie doesn’t come along every day where a player like Dugy does.

[Hugh2]

That's true, but we also gave the Dodgers the chance to extend Betts, and they capitalized.

 

I also find it amusing that we do the 1/3 year thing for Betts's 2020, but not for Verdugo's 2020.

 

Because Verdugo was under team control for 5 years and Betts 1/3. That’s how you evaluate value. That’s exactly how you do it

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

That's true, but we also gave the Dodgers the chance to extend Betts, and they capitalized.

 

I also find it amusing that we do the 1/3 year thing for Betts's 2020, but not for Verdugo's 2020.

 

Dodgers were trading for 12 years of Mookie. Over and over and over again.

[notin]

That's true, but we also gave the Dodgers the chance to extend Betts, and they capitalized.

 

I also find it amusing that we do the 1/3 year thing for Betts's 2020, but not for Verdugo's 2020.

 

The Sox had the chance for multiple years to extend Betts and failed to do so. And given their bulky salary, their only change to bring him back and avoid luxury tax was to deal him and hope he opted for free agency. It was a longshot, but it was also all they had. Shedding half of Price also helped…

[Hugh2]

But that could have all changed if JH wanted it to. A player like Mookie doesn’t come along every day where a player like Dugy does.

 

Exactly! Big decisions like that are at the ownership level. Henry traded Betts, Henry was the cheapskate

[Nick]

Lefty righty spilt are not “metrics,” and they were around for decades.

 

I’d love to see Duran play everyday and prove he can hit lefties better than he has. I’d also love to see Duvall hit lefties, and maybe Kike, too.

 

Duran does bring more to the game than meets the eyes, and by the way, WAR has captured that very well, but he has sucked vs lefties and has to earn a FT role. Kike is a very good defensive CFer, too, and Duvall is not bad. They both have earned the right to play vs lefties- just not Kike at SS.

 

It’s not an easy call. I’d be fine with any of the 3 vs LHPs. I can see why Cora wants to keep his whole team sharp. I can see why Duran should get a chance, too. Im just not sure now is the time to run the experiment.

 

You sure have become an apologist for both Keke and Duval.

 

They deserve NOTHING.

Duran deserves chance to play every day more than Kike.

 

Ever think how many games were wasted by Sox in June by having both Duval and Kike in the lineup?

 

Just give it up Moon. You are defending two has beens. Two rentals. If I'm Bloom I'd get rid of both and force Cora's hand.

[Hugh2]

There seems to be some confusion over the difference of a bad trade vs. the decision to trade someone.

 

Mookie Betts was my favorite player, I knew he was going to be a star when he was in Salem. We can say the decision to trade him was the worse decision in a very very long time. But that should stand alone on the return, think of it as a sunk cost. Reality is you were trading what ended up being a 1/3 of a season of Betts. Players without team control, no matter how good they are, are only going to bring back so much.

 

Yes trading Betts was stupid, and it f***ing sucked, but the return was fine.

 

If Betts had 2-3 years of control left I would have expected a MUCH higher return. This is how these things work.

[Hugh2]

You sure have become an apologist for both Keke and Duval.

 

They deserve NOTHING.

Duran deserves chance to play every day more than Kike.

 

Ever think how many games were wasted by Sox in June by having both Duval and Kike in the lineup?

 

Just give it up Moon. You are defending two has beens. Two rentals. If I'm Bloom I'd get rid of both and force Cora's hand.

 

Great ideal, can’t play Kike if he’s not on the team. Duran should be playing everyday

[Old Red]

You sure have become an apologist for both Keke and Duval.

 

They deserve NOTHING.

Duran deserves chance to play every day more than Kike.

 

Ever think how many games were wasted by Sox in June by having both Duval and Kike in the lineup?

 

Just give it up Moon. You are defending two has beens. Two rentals. If I'm Bloom I'd get rid of both and force Cora's hand.

You are way behind the times. Kike has been Moon’s boy toy for 3 years now, so you won’t change anything on that. He still thinks Kike is playing like he did in October of 2021 when in Fact Kike has sucked for two years now with the bat, and has been a waste of $10M.

[moonslav59]

You sure have become an apologist for both Keke and Duval.

 

They deserve NOTHING.

Duran deserves chance to play every day more than Kike.

 

Ever think how many games were wasted by Sox in June by having both Duval and Kike in the lineup?

 

Just give it up Moon. You are defending two has beens. Two rentals. If I'm Bloom I'd get rid of both and force Cora's hand.

 

I don't give up on players for a 3 week slump-like Duvall.

 

I don't give up on an .800+ OPS guy vs lefties, career, and until yesterday had a better OPS vs LHPs, this year than Duran.

 

Were you an apologist for Duran, last year? Hint: nobody was, and look what happened, when he was given a chance, despite what he did the previous X amount of PAs. As far as all of us were concerned, Duran was a "has been," last year. I'm glad Cora doesn't think like that.

 

I've never been one to argue someone should play over another player based on small sample sizes.

 

The Kike argument is valid. He has not hit well for 1.5 seasons, but then again, neither did Duran for much of the last 2 years. BTW, I'm not arguing to play Kike or Duvall "everyday." I'm talking about ONLY who should play vs LHPs.

 

Duvall led the legue in RBIs WAY, WAY back 1.5 years ago (2021.) Yes, let's just ignore that and bench him vs the handed pitchers he does best against- all because Duran has been killing righties.

 

That's not apologies- that's facts.

 

I've said I want to see Duran get to play everyday.

I also want Duvall to play vs LHPs, as well as Turner and Yoshida. I'd be okay with benching Casas vs LHPs and playing Turner at 1B, Yoshida at DH and Duvall in LF, so Duran could play everyday.

 

I'm not going to the mat saying Kike should play CF over Duran vs RHPs, but he has a pretty good record vs them. He was 68 points ahead of Duran vs LHPs until yesterday, even in this crappy year. Career, Kike is .812 and was .775, last year.

 

What's your apology for Duran's .538 career OPS vs lefties? His greatness against righties makes him deserve to play vs LHPs, despite his awful record vs them?

[notin]

Dodgers were trading for 12 years of Mookie. Over and over and over again.

 

Not if Mookie didn’t let them…

[moonslav59]

There seems to be some confusion over the difference of a bad trade vs. the decision to trade someone.

 

Mookie Betts was my favorite player, I knew he was going to be a star when he was in Salem. We can say the decision to trade him was the worse decision in a very very long time. But that should stand alone on the return, think of it as a sunk cost. Reality is you were trading what ended up being a 1/3 of a season of Betts. Players without team control, no matter how good they are, are only going to bring back so much.

 

Yes trading Betts was stupid, and it f***ing sucked, but the return was fine.

 

If Betts had 2-3 years of control left I would have expected a MUCH higher return. This is how these things work.

 

100% accurate.

 

We have some reports of what else might have been offered for Betts, and it didn't even include the Price throw-in.

 

Downs ended up sucking, but 4.3 years or Dugo plus 5 years of Wong looks like a good trade for 0.3 years of Betts.

 

The extension issues are separate- both the Sox failure or give one and the Dodger giving one.

[moonslav59]

Great ideal, can’t play Kike if he’s not on the team. Duran should be playing everyday

 

I'm fine with playing Duran vs LHPs over Kike, but as of now, not over Duvall.

 

We could bench Casas vs LHPs to let Duran and Duvall play v LHPs, but I do not think Duvall should be benched vs his better split pitchers.

[Old Red]

I don't give up on players for a 3 week slump-like Duvall.

 

I don't give up on an .800+ OPS guy vs lefties, career, and until yesterday had a better OPS vs LHPs, this year than Duran.

 

Were you an apologist for Duran, last year? Hint: nobody was, and look what happened, when he was given a chance, despite what he did the previous X amount of PAs. As far as all of us were concerned, Duran was a "has been," last year. I'm glad Cora doesn't think like that.

 

I've never been one to argue someone should play over another player based on small sample sizes.

 

The Kike argument is valid. He has not hit well for 1.5 seasons, but then again, neither did Duran for much of the last 2 years. BTW, I'm not arguing to play Kike or Duvall "everyday." I'm talking about ONLY who should play vs LHPs.

 

Duvall led the legue in RBIs WAY, WAY back 1.5 years ago (2021.) Yes, let's just ignore that and bench him vs the handed pitchers he does best against- all because Duran has been killing righties.

 

That's not apologies- that's facts.

 

I've said I want to see Duran get to play everyday.

I also want Duvall to play vs LHPs, as well as Turner and Yoshida. I'd be okay with benching Casas vs LHPs and playing Turner at 1B, Yoshida at DH and Duvall in LF, so Duran could play everyday.

 

I'm not going to the mat saying Kike should play CF over Duran vs RHPs, but he has a pretty good record vs them. He was 68 points ahead of Duran vs LHPs until yesterday, even in this crappy year. Career, Kike is .812 and was .775, last year.

 

What's your apology for Duran's .538 career OPS vs lefties? His greatness against righties makes him deserve to play vs LHPs, despite his awful record vs them?

I don’t think Duran’s career OPS means to much today, because he has become at least at the moment a lot better hitter. Yes the eye test tells you that.

[Bellhorn04]

Because Verdugo was under team control for 5 years and Betts 1/3.

 

Do you really not see the problem with this statement?

[Bellhorn04]

The Sox had the chance for multiple years to extend Betts and failed to do so. And given their bulky salary, their only change to bring him back and avoid luxury tax was to deal him and hope he opted for free agency. It was a longshot, but it was also all they had.

 

I don't really buy it. I think what happened is JH, or JH/Werner, drew a clear line in the sand on their max offer to Mookie. That's always been my guess.

[moonslav59]

I don't really buy it. I think what happened is JH, or JH/Werner, drew a clear line in the sand on their max offer to Mookie. That's always been my guess.

 

To me, it's impossible for me to imagine Bloom convincing JH & Co. not to up the offer on Betts and wanted to trade him away.

 

Bloom deserves a lot of criticism, but not for trading Betts or the return we got for him.

 

(Yes, it was 4.3 years of Dugo + 5 years of Wong for 0.3 years of Betts.)

[Hugh2]

Do you really not see the problem with this statement?

 

I don’t, because it’s reality.

 

Be angry they traded him, I am.

[Hugh2]

What was inaccurate about that statement?

[moonslav59]

What was inaccurate about that statement?

 

4.3 years of Dugo not 5. If you discount 2020 as 1/3 of a season for Mookie, it should be discounted for Dugo, too.

 

It should be stated as 5 years for 1 or 4.3 for 0.3.

[Bellhorn04]

4.3 years of Dugo not 5. If you discount 2020 as 1/3 of a season for Mookie, it should be discounted for Dugo, too.

 

It should be stated as 5 years for 1 or 4.3 for 0.3.

 

You nailed it.