A Realistic View of 2023: Part II

[Old Red]

You nailed it.

 

Too bad JH didn’t.

[Nick]

I don't give up on players for a 3 week slump-like Duvall.

 

I don't give up on an .800+ OPS guy vs lefties, career, and until yesterday had a better OPS vs LHPs, this year than Duran.

 

Were you an apologist for Duran, last year? Hint: nobody was, and look what happened, when he was given a chance, despite what he did the previous X amount of PAs. As far as all of us were concerned, Duran was a "has been," last year. I'm glad Cora doesn't think like that.

 

I've never been one to argue someone should play over another player based on small sample sizes.

 

The Kike argument is valid. He has not hit well for 1.5 seasons, but then again, neither did Duran for much of the last 2 years. BTW, I'm not arguing to play Kike or Duvall "everyday." I'm talking about ONLY who should play vs LHPs.

 

Duvall led the legue in RBIs WAY, WAY back 1.5 years ago (2021.) Yes, let's just ignore that and bench him vs the handed pitchers he does best against- all because Duran has been killing righties.

 

That's not apologies- that's facts.

 

I've said I want to see Duran get to play everyday.

I also want Duvall to play vs LHPs, as well as Turner and Yoshida. I'd be okay with benching Casas vs LHPs and playing Turner at 1B, Yoshida at DH and Duvall in LF, so Duran could play everyday.

 

I'm not going to the mat saying Kike should play CF over Duran vs RHPs, but he has a pretty good record vs them. He was 68 points ahead of Duran vs LHPs until yesterday, even in this crappy year. Career, Kike is .812 and was .775, last year.

 

What's your apology for Duran's .538 career OPS vs lefties? His greatness against righties makes him deserve to play vs LHPs, despite his awful record vs them?

 

 

Are you that dense? Do you believe CAREER NUMBERS FOR DURAN IS APPLICABLE NOW? REALLY? For a 'rookie' season Duran (2023), what he did in 2022 is f***ING MEANINLESS. You do get that Duran is NOT the same player he was last year, or don't you? Why do you constantly bring in his CAREER NUMBERS?

 

You just don't want to give into the idea that Kike SUCKS! Period. I'm done talking to you about Duran/Kike/Duval.

 

You talk about Duval's small sample size since his return. Well that sample size encompasses entire month of June. But you constantly bring up what he did for 8 games to start the season. Which one looks to you like a better sample size? Eight games or entire month of June. Whatever fits your argument as usual.

Edited July 9, 2023 by Nick

[Old Red]

Are you that dense? Do you believe CAREER NUMBERS FOR DURAN IS APPLICABLE NOW? REALLY? For a 'rookie' season Duran, what he did in 2022 is f***ING MEANINLESS. You don't get that Duran is NOT the same player he was last year? Why do you constantly bring in his CAREER NUMBERS?

 

You just don't want to give into the idea that Kike SUCKS! Period. I'm done talking to you about Duran/Kike/Duval.

 

You talk about Duval's small sample size since his return. Well that sample size encompasses entire month of June. But you constantly bring up what he did for 8 games. Which one looks to you like a better sample size? Whatever fits your argument as usual.

Well said!

[dgalehouse]

Duran looks like a possible breakout star. A game changer at bat and on the bases. He should play every day.

[moonslav59]

Are you that dense? Do you believe CAREER NUMBERS FOR DURAN IS APPLICABLE NOW? REALLY? For a 'rookie' season Duran, what he did in 2022 is f***ING MEANINLESS. You don't get that Duran is NOT the same player he was last year? Why do you constantly bring in his CAREER NUMBERS?

 

You don't want to give into the idea that Kike SUCKS! Period.

 

I gave you the 2023 numbers, so who is being dense, here?

 

Until yesterday's Duran HR, Kike has better numbers vs lefties, and is still close.

 

Duvall still has better 2023 numbers than Duran vs LHPs. NOT CAREER! THIS YEAR!

 

I've already said, I'm fine with Duran starting over Kike in CF vs LHPs, but I guess you don't read what I say. You just project what you think I said.

 

Can you answer why we should have even played Duran, in the first place, if all you care about is a player's recent 2 month sample size?

 

He sucked in 2022. He had a .792 OPS in Woo before being called up and sucked vs LHPs there, too- this year. NOT CAREER!

 

I've said countless times, I want Duran to play everyday. I just want Duvall to play vs LHPs, too.

 

I think Kike can still help vs LHPs in CF and 2B- just not SS. I'm not saying Duran should be benched for Kike. I know Kike ha ssucked at the plate for 1.5 years and is horrible on D at SS.

 

I'm not sure what the issue is. You are inventing strawmen.

 

I have not mentioned Duvalls first few games even once. This whole "constantly" talk is your imagination.

[Hugh2]

4.3 years of Dugo not 5. If you discount 2020 as 1/3 of a season for Mookie, it should be discounted for Dugo, too.

 

It should be stated as 5 years for 1 or 4.3 for 0.3.

 

This is fair

[Bellhorn04]

Are you that dense? Do you believe CAREER NUMBERS FOR DURAN IS APPLICABLE NOW? REALLY? For a 'rookie' season Duran (2023), what he did in 2022 is f***ING MEANINLESS. You do get that Duran is NOT the same player he was last year, or don't you? Why do you constantly bring in his CAREER NUMBERS?

 

You just don't want to give into the idea that Kike SUCKS! Period. I'm done talking to you about Duran/Kike/Duval.

 

You talk about Duval's small sample size since his return. Well that sample size encompasses entire month of June. But you constantly bring up what he did for 8 games to start the season. Which one looks to you like a better sample size? Eight games or entire month of June. Whatever fits your argument as usual.

 

Duran has 239 PA's against righties and only 39 against lefties this year.

 

Which might mean his excellent numbers have a lot to do with not seeing many lefties.

 

We don'tr actually know if he can hit lefties well yet.

 

I agree he should get the chance, but maybe you need to look a little closer at the facts.

[Hugh2]

Imagine trading in your 1999 Honda accord valued at $1,000 dollars and demanding the dealership pay $10,000 for it.

 

“Sir, your car is only worth $1,500, yes it’s in good condition and a Honda, but you have 325,000 miles on it.”

 

“Yes, but you could put a new engine in it, a new transmission, a new paint job and run this car for another 325,000 miles, I think this car is worth $10,000”.

 

That’s what it sounds like to think .3 years of Mookie demanded the value he’s equal to through out the life of his contract signed post script.

[moonslav59]

Duran looks like a possible breakout star. A game changer at bat and on the bases. He should play every day.

 

Nobody is disagreeing, except in some posters minds.

 

Should Duvall play vs all LHPs? If anyone answers no, then we will have an inferior line-up out there.

 

I mentioned a way to get both to play, by benching Casas vs lefties, but then I caught hell for that idea.

 

Do people really want to write off Duvall, the RBI leader in 2021, because he has had a difficult time since coming off the IL a month ago?

 

This isn't about Duran. It's about Duvall.

 

I never said Kike deserves to play over Duran- just he should definitely play vs LHPs. That can be at 2B, too.

[moonslav59]

Duran has 239 PA's against righties and only 39 against lefties this year.

 

Which might mean his excellent numbers have a lot to do with not seeing many lefties.

 

We don'tr actually know if he can hit lefties well yet.

 

I agree he should get the chance, but maybe you need to look a little closer at the facts.

 

Duran also had a .487 OPS vs LHPs, this year at Woo. (Yes, small sample size, too.) It's not like his sudden metamorphosis has encompassed every aspect of his skillset, no matter how much we hope it has.)

 

He deserves a chance to see if he can turn that around. His HR, yesterday helped. It brought him from .600 to just over .700.

 

To me, the real question is, should we platoon Casas, so Duran can play everyday? There is just no way Duvall should be benched vs LH'd SP'ers. If he goes oh for the next two weeks, maybe...

[Randy Red Sox]

come on everyone. no need to get so personal. Everyone has their own opinions and that is fine. Duran is not starting today as the A's started a LH. No conspiracy there.

Well said!

[moonslav59]

Duran has 239 PA's against righties and only 39 against lefties this year.

 

Which might mean his excellent numbers have a lot to do with not seeing many lefties.

 

Good point. Before yesterday, his splits were about .900 to .600.

 

His PAs were about 7:1 vs RHPs (210 to 35)

 

The team PA ratio is about 3:1

 

Had Duran played 75% of his games vs RHs at .900 and 25% of his games vs LHPs (.600), his OPS before yesterday would have been .750 and nobody would be saying a peep.

[Larry Cook]

Duran has 239 PA's against righties and only 39 against lefties this year.

 

Which might mean his excellent numbers have a lot to do with not seeing many lefties.

 

We don'tr actually know if he can hit lefties well yet.

 

I agree he should get the chance, but maybe you need to look a little closer at the facts.

 

Duran needs to stay on the bench whenever a lefty is pitching

[Old Red]

come on everyone. no need to get so personal. Everyone has their own opinions and that is fine. Duran is not starting today as the A's started a LH. No conspiracy there.

 

Who said anything about a conspiracy? I also agree with Moon that these guys don’t need all the rest Cora gives them. Especially today before a 4 day break.

[Old Red]

Duran needs to stay on the bench whenever a lefty is pitching

 

Not the way Duvall is going.

[Larry Cook]

Not the way Duvall is going.

 

Does Duvall have any trade value left?

[moonslav59]

How about this one?

 

Should we bench a guy who is hitting .967 vs LHPs from 2022-2023? (.932 this year- NOT CAREER!!!!)

 

Sample size: 161 PAs

 

Out of 200 MLB with 161 PAs+ vs LHPs, he places 8th.

 

His name is not Duran, Duvall, Dugo, Yoshida or even Devers; it's Refsnyder.

 

Apparently, some might want him benched vs LHPs, too, so Duran can play FT.

 

Guys, we have a nice problem to have: a lot of deserving players who hit very well vs certain splits. It looks like we have to choose between many good choices. It's not a slam dunk choice. It's not dissing Duran to think Ref and Duvall might be more deserving. (I understand the uproar over Kike, and it was well-founded.)

[moonslav59]

Does Duvall have any trade value left?

 

Yes, especially if we pay the $2.5M still owed.

 

No GM goes by most recent 4 week numbers to place value on any player.

[Old Red]

Yes, especially if we pay the $2.5M still owed.

 

No GM goes by most recent 4 week numbers to place value on any player.

 

But yet everyone was doing that over his first 33 AB.it’s not like Duvall was very good with the bat last year either, and yes that was before he got hurt too.

Edited July 9, 2023 by Old Red

[moonslav59]

It's funny how a certain player's career .230 BA mattered more than his 3 month sample size to end 2021 and into the playoffs, but now, only the most recent 2 month sample size should matter with Duran.

 

Okay, forget career numbers and 2022. Forget Duvall led the league in RBI in 2021, the year Renfroe's RBIs mattered more than his .230 career BA. Forget it all. Let's look at just 2023, like that's all that matters:

 

OPS vs LHPs:

1.122 McGuire (14 PA reverse split)

.986 Reyes (25 PAs) rehabbing, now

.952 Turner

.932 Ref

.888 Devers

.863 Duvall (29 PAs)

.836 Yoshida

.830 Chang (14)

.735 Casas (Are we sure we want Duran playing over Casas?)

.730 Dalbec (9)

 

.708 Duran

 

.668 Kike (Kike can play 2B vs LHPs)

.667 D Ham

.654 Dugo (Should we play Duran over him?)

.589 Arroyo

 

I never thought arguing for a .708 hitter would get so fervent.

 

[Nick]

Kike is starting in center field today. Anyone here honestly thinks he is better choice than Duran? I don't care if God is pitching. Duran is the better choice than Kike in CF.

[Nick]

Duran has 239 PA's against righties and only 39 against lefties this year.

 

Which might mean his excellent numbers have a lot to do with not seeing many lefties.

 

We don'tr actually know if he can hit lefties well yet.

 

I agree he should get the chance, but maybe you need to look a little closer at the facts.

 

Aren't you and Moon the champions of sample size? Duran's small sample size vs lefties is biased based on previous year's stats. Yes we don't know if he can hit lefties.

 

Isn't it time we give him that chance? He did hit a 'lucky' homer vs a lefty yesterday. I'm assuming that's what you and Moon are thinking, it was just a 'luck'.

 

Okay, I'm done. I've said everything I need to. Adios Amigos.

[Old Red]

It's funny how a certain player's career .230 BA mattered more than his 3 month sample size to end 2021 and into the playoffs, but now, only the most recent 2 month sample size should matter with Duran.

 

Okay, forget career numbers and 2022. Forget Duvall led the league in RBI in 2021, the year Renfroe's RBIs mattered more than his .230 career BA. Forget it all. Let's look at just 2023, like that's all that matters:

 

OPS vs LHPs:

1.122 McGuire (14 PA reverse split)

.986 Reyes (25 PAs) rehabbing, now

.952 Turner

.932 Ref

.888 Devers

.863 Duvall (29 PAs)

.836 Yoshida

.830 Chang (14)

.735 Casas (Are we sure we want Duran playing over Casas?)

.730 Dalbec (9)

 

.708 Duran

 

.668 Kike (Kike can play 2B vs LHPs)

.667 D Ham

.654 Dugo (Should we play Duran over him?)

.589 Arroyo

 

I never thought arguing for a .708 hitter would get so fervent.

 

How does Duvall leading anything in 2021, or Kike having a hot streak in Oct of 2021 help them now? It doesn’t.

[Dipre]

Duran has proven at this point in time that he deserves to be out there everyday regardless of who is pitching. I don't think that playing the metrics game with an athlete like this does anybody any good. He just puts too much pressure on the defense. I'm with you on Casas. I'm very hopeful but I'm not sold on him just yet. It's not like he has really ripped things up at any ml level as of yet. it looks like the potential is there but we shall see.

 

What is the metrics game?

[Old Red]

What is the metrics game?

 

Not only wow, but wow!

[Dipre]

Not only wow, but wow!

 

You can put me on ignore if you want.

[moonslav59]

Kike is starting in center field today. Anyone here honestly thinks he is better choice than Duran? I don't care if God is pitching. Duran is the better choice than Kike in CF.

 

It's a close call, to me, but the way Kike is hitting, I'd have gone with Duran, today.

 

I'm glad they started Duvall

[moonslav59]

Aren't you and Moon the champions of sample size? Duran's small sample size vs lefties is biased based on previous year's stats. Yes we don't know if he can hit lefties.

 

Isn't it time we give him that chance? He did hit a 'lucky' homer vs a lefty yesterday. I'm assuming that's what you and Moon are thinking, it was just a 'luck'.

 

Okay, I'm done. I've said everything I need to. Adios Amigos.

 

No. The numbers I used were this year's Duran numbers vs LHPs. I even gave the 2023 Woo numbers, since this year is all that matters to you.

 

Ref and Duvall blow him away v L.

Casas is slightly better.

Kike was better, until yesterday.

 

Are you happy Duvall played, today?

[Dipre]

I don't think we have to dig that deep into it. Cora's just trying to get everyone playing time.

[moonslav59]

What is the metrics game?

 

He said lefty righty splits aren't metrics, yesterday, but now it appears they are again.

 

Duran is playing great D, too and can run better than anyone on the team. I happen to agree he deserves to be given a chance to play everyday. I just also think others do too, do it's not an obvious choice, everytime a lefty pitches.

 

Please tell me nobody thinks Ref, Turner or Yoshida should sit vs lefties. That leaves 3 lost open: CF, RF and 1B/DH (wherever Turner is not playing) It could be LF, if Turner plays 1B and Yoshida DHs.

 

3 slots:

 

RHB Duvall

LHB Dugo

LHB Casas

LHB Duran

RHB Kike

 

I don't think Cora will ever platoon or even half platoon Dugo.

Personally, I think Duvall has to play 100% of the games vs a LH'd SP'er, so to me it comes down to 2-3 players for the last slot, namely Casas or Duran with Kike needing to earn his way over those two, even vs a LHP. He may be better than Arroyo at 2B v LHPs.