Giving up 28 today = We are sellers

[Oscars]

We have 8 games to change my mind, but as of now, I'm for selling every player with one year left for the best we can get, no matter how bad it looks.

 

On 2 year players: I'd trade or can Diekman, but if we sell 9 guys, I guess we keep him around, since we're paying him for next year, too, and maybe he turns it around- same with Brasier & Barnes, who has an option for 2024. Trade Sawamura for whatever. Pay his an other's remaining contracts to sweeten the return, if necessary.

 

Devers forevers. I'll keep saying it in hopes it becomes a reality.

 

FAs after 2024, I would not mind seeing traded:

Arroyo

Verdugo (I don't want Duran & Verdugo both on the 26, next season.)

Cordero

 

That should be enough to keep Bloom busy in the next 8 days.

 

Duran and Dugo is the same lineup just can’t happen next season.

The hitting from the Sox outfield and DH spots have been truly abysmal.

The typical quartet for the Yankees ( Stanton, Judge, Gallo, Carpenter ) have 75 HRs between them.

Our typical 4 ( JBJ , Duran, Dugo, JD ) have 19 HRs combined.

FFS the starting yankee 1st baseman has more HRs (22) than than the Red Sox current starting outfield and DH combined!!!

Historically this would have to be right up there as one of the worst Red Sox outfield/DH combinations in terms of HR production in recent memory.

Apparently 200 million doesn’t go very far these days.

[Bellhorn04]

when players quit on a manager or franchise front office no matter how good they are they will not go 100% and I have seen it many times, the public does not know the inner problems that's why it starts at the top

 

Exactly - we don't know if there are inner problems or not.

 

When teams are going this bad we tend to start looking for those inner problems...

[mvp 78]

Exactly - we don't know if there are inner problems or not.

 

When teams are going this bad we tend to start looking for those inner problems...

 

The problems:

 

Dalbec never got hot.

Kiké got hurt.

JBJ is still terrible.

Verdugo has a good statcast, but the hits aren't falling in.

The starting pitching that had injury question marks became injury exclamation points.

Story didn't acclimate to the AL quickly.

Barnes didn't get fixed in the offseason.

Whitlock/Houck weren't given fixed positions.

 

Xander/JD/Raffy/Vaz were good.

[Yaz Fan Since 67]

Yes, Refsnyder not being a FT player right now is the only odd decision. He's at least capable out there. Cordero can really shove your nose in it from time to time.

 

This is about the only thing I can put on Cora. His lineup has Duran, Cordero, Dalbec, JBJ, Sanchez and Downs. I defy you to find a manager throughout the history of the game who can win with that lineup.

[mvp 78]

This is about the only thing I can put on Cora. His lineup has Duran' date=' Cordero, Dalbec, JBJ, Sanchez and Downs. I defy you to find a manager throughout the history of the game who can win with that lineup.[/quote']

 

He's stuck with Downs and Yolmer, but I would have considered moving Downs to 2b and Yolmer to 3b.

 

I would have benched Duran on Saturday night though. You can't let that play happen on Friday night and then not even attempt to get that ball after. Just a bad look.

 

I would stop putting Cordero at 1b altogether. Dalbec would be there fulltime for me going forward until a better option comes around. Cordero is now the 4th OFer and you do some Duran/JBJ/Cordero rotation with CF/RF depending on the field.

 

Refsnyder seems competent. I'd have him play no matter what.

[notin]

He's stuck with Downs and Yolmer, but I would have considered moving Downs to 2b and Yolmer to 3b.

 

Understandable but Downs does clearly have the better arm.

 

I would have benched Duran on Saturday night though. You can't let that play happen on Friday night and then not even attempt to get that ball after. Just a bad look.

 

Also understandable, but there was no one else. Refsnyder was reportedly banged up

 

I would stop putting Cordero at 1b altogether. Dalbec would be there fulltime for me going forward until a better option comes around. Cordero is now the 4th OFer and you do some Duran/JBJ/Cordero rotation with CF/RF depending on the field.

 

Cordero at 1b is an experiment that needs to end. He was never the plan, and it’s time to remember that.

 

Refsnyder seems competent. I'd have him play no matter what.

 

And he might once he is ready again…

[moonslav59]

Yes, Refsnyder not being a FT player right now is the only odd decision. He's at least capable out there. Cordero can really shove your nose in it from time to time.

 

The Refsnyder playing time issue has me head scratching for quite sometime. Yes, I dare use that term, again.

 

I get the argument that he looked like a flash to start, and putting total faith in him based on a few games is not usually sound strategy, but WTF!!! Our OF has sucked, even when Kike was healthy. And, here’s the clincher: what the hell is the Refsnyder plan, right now? Does anyone know?

 

He’s started 8 games vs RHPs and 11 vs LHPs. That does not look like a platoon, to me. 51 PAs v R and 46 vL. I expected to find massive differentials and way more than just 97 PAs on the season. Why?

 

I’m being serious here. Why just 97PAs?

[Yaz Fan Since 67]

He's stuck with Downs and Yolmer, but I would have considered moving Downs to 2b and Yolmer to 3b.

 

I would have benched Duran on Saturday night though. You can't let that play happen on Friday night and then not even attempt to get that ball after. Just a bad look.

 

I would stop putting Cordero at 1b altogether. Dalbec would be there fulltime for me going forward until a better option comes around. Cordero is now the 4th OFer and you do some Duran/JBJ/Cordero rotation with CF/RF depending on the field.

 

Refsnyder seems competent. I'd have him play no matter what.

 

I only saw that play once and tried to remove it from my memory. But wasn't the LF closer so that's why he didn't run?

[Bellhorn04]

The Refsnyder playing time issue has me head scratching for quite sometime. Yes, I dare use that term, again.

 

I get the argument that he looked like a flash to start, and putting total faith in him based on a few games is not usually sound strategy, but WTF!!! Our OF has sucked, even when Kike was healthy. And, here’s the clincher: what the hell is the Refsnyder plan, right now? Does anyone know?

 

He’s started 8 games vs RHPs and 11 vs LHPs. That does not look like a platoon, to me. 51 PAs v R and 46 vL. I expected to find massive differentials and way more than just 97 PAs on the season. Why?

 

I’m being serious here. Why just 97PAs?

 

Did you see notin's post above?

[moonslav59]

Did you see notin's post above?

 

About Ref being banged up, yes, after my post, but I’m sticking to my point. Ref should have much more than 97 PAs, and the platoon idea has not been a platoon , in reality

[Bellhorn04]

About Ref being banged up, yes, after my post, but I’m sticking to my point. Ref should have much more than 97 PAs, and the platoon idea has not been a platoon , in reality

 

He's only been with the team since June 10, or about 6 weeks, aside from 3 games in April.

 

Aside from that, you'd have to go through each game and see who he was playing instead of.

[moonslav59]

He's only been with the team since June 10, or about 6 weeks, aside from 3 games in April.

 

Aside from that, you'd have to go through each game and see who he was playing instead of.

 

I know all the choices, and none are better- lefty or righty.

 

I didn’t expect to see 250 PAs. I know he hardly played before June, but he’s 11th in team PAs in June and 9th in July. I know that’s behind Duran and Dugo. Not sure about JBJ, Cordero and Dalbec.

[Bellhorn04]

I know all the choices, and none are better- lefty or righty.

 

I didn’t expect to see 250 PAs. I know he hardly played before June, but he’s 11th in team PAs in June and 9th in July. I know that’s behind Duran and Dugo. Not sure about JBJ, Cordero and Dalbec.

 

I think it's only in the last week or two that people have started to ask why Ref isn't in the lineup more.

 

Verdugo's OPS for June was .905.

 

Duran's OPS on July 6 was .900.

 

When would you have started bumping these guys in favor of Ref?

Edited July 25, 2022 by Bellhorn04

[moonslav59]

I think it's only in the last week or two that people have started to ask why Ref isn't in the lineup more.

 

Verdugo's OPS for June was .905.

 

Duran's OPS on July 6 was .900.

 

When would you have started bumping these guys in favor of Ref?

 

Kike was out. Bump JBJ and Cordero, whenever he was in the OF. Maybe sit Duran vs some lefties, if needed.

 

BTW, I was calling for giving Ref more time before most were. (Not bragging- I've been more wrong than right.)

 

Yes, Dugo and Duran were hot for a while, but...

 

.965 in June

 

.895 in July

 

...and last I checked, there are 3 OF positions! LOL

 

[Bellhorn04]

Kike was out. Bump JBJ and Cordero, whenever he was in the OF. Maybe sit Duran vs some lefties, if needed.

 

BTW, I was calling for giving Ref more time before most were. (Not bragging- I've been more wrong than right.)

 

Yes, Dugo and Duran were hot for a while, but...

 

.965 in June

 

.895 in July

 

...and last I checked, there are 3 OF positions! LOL

 

 

2022 vs. RHP

 

Refsnyder .733

Bradley .622

 

Career vs. RHP

 

Refsnyder .605

 

Given the likelihood of regression, I don't think there's enough to justify Ref simply replacing Bradley as full time RF.

[notin]

2022 vs. RHP

 

Refsnyder .733

Bradley .622

 

Career vs. RHP

 

Refsnyder .605

 

Given the likelihood of regression, I don't think there's enough to justify Ref simply replacing Bradley as full time RF.

 

I don’t get the idea of being in both Sell Mode and Play Refsnyder Mode.

 

Refsnyder is a 31yo AAAA journeyman. He’s the present, not the future…

[moonslav59]

2022 vs. RHP

 

Refsnyder .733

Bradley .622

 

Career vs. RHP

 

Refsnyder .605

 

Given the likelihood of regression, I don't think there's enough to justify Ref simply replacing Bradley as full time RF.

 

Play till he regreses

[moonslav59]

I don’t get the idea of being in both Sell Mode and Play Refsnyder Mode.

 

Refsnyder is a 31yo AAAA journeyman. He’s the present, not the future…

 

He might be a late bloomer. And he has team control. We have no ML ready OFers on the farm he’s blocking, and how is playing JBJ looking towards the future.

 

The answer is so obvious why ref should play more.

[Bellhorn04]

Play till he regreses

 

I'm siding with Cora on this one.

[Bellhorn04]

I don’t get the idea of being in both Sell Mode and Play Refsnyder Mode.

 

Refsnyder is a 31yo AAAA journeyman. He’s the present, not the future…

 

I believe that even people who are in sell mode, outside of Fellowship of the Miserable types, want the Sox to win every time they step on the field.

[notin]

He might be a late bloomer. And he has team control. We have no ML ready OFers on the farm he’s blocking, and how is playing JBJ looking towards the future.

 

The answer is so obvious why ref should play more.

 

JBJ isn’t the future either, but he does have an option.

 

Refsnyder’s past has shown this is likely an enjoyable SSS blip for a player whose ceiling is weak side platoon option…

[mvp 78]

I only saw that play once and tried to remove it from my memory. But wasn't the LF closer so that's why he didn't run?

 

I mean, he didn't even flinch towards the ball after it went past him.

[mvp 78]

I think it's only in the last week or two that people have started to ask why Ref isn't in the lineup more.

 

Verdugo's OPS for June was .905.

 

Duran's OPS on July 6 was .900.

 

When would you have started bumping these guys in favor of Ref?

 

I'd play Verdugo every day. I think Cora is going to play Duran in CF every day just to get him the reps. I guess that makes a platoon with JBJ/Ref in RF? IDK.

 

If they were trying to win, I'd put JBJ in CF and Ref in RF when he was ready and just go with that. Duran was hot for 10 games and then ice cold right after. It was a dramatic fall off.

[Kimmi]

Is anyone still on the no sell bandwagon?

 

{Raises hand}

[notin]

I mean, he didn't even flinch towards the ball after it went past him.

 

It looked worse on TV because Verdugo didn’t even get on screen for a second or two, but what it did do regardless of his apparent complacency was solidify everything we’ve heard about his OF defense…

[notin]

I'd play Verdugo every day. I think Cora is going to play Duran in CF every day just to get him the reps. I guess that makes a platoon with JBJ/Ref in RF? IDK.

 

If they were trying to win, I'd put JBJ in CF and Ref in RF when he was ready and just go with that. Duran was hot for 10 games and then ice cold right after. It was a dramatic fall off.

 

The play of Duran in CF should actually justify the Bradley trade even more. I get moving on from Bradley, but if the Sox can win 5 or 6 of these next 7, should they still sell? And if not, put Bradley in CF and bat him 9th and maybe fewer sac flies turn into inside-the-park grand slams…

[JDavis76]

{Raises hand}

 

So you don't want to do what is in the best long term interest of the team?

 

That pretty much goes against what you preach in here all the time.

[Kimmi]

So you don't want to do what is in the best long term interest of the team?

 

That pretty much goes against what you preach in here all the time.

 

I preach the long term interest of the team in balance with the short term interest. I have never been in favor of prioritizing one to the extent of sacrificing the other. The priority is long term sustainability, but again, not at the expense of contending this year.

[JDavis76]

I preach the long term interest of the team in balance with the short term interest. I have never been in favor of prioritizing one to the extent of sacrificing the other. The priority is long term sustainability, but again, not at the expense of contending this year.

 

They are closer to last place than they are to a playoff spot.

[a700hitter]

I preach the long term interest of the team in balance with the short term interest. I have never been in favor of prioritizing one to the extent of sacrificing the other. The priority is long term sustainability, but again, not at the expense of contending this year.

As July closes out, the Red Sox are not in contention.