Giving up 28 today = We are sellers

[moonslav59]

So you're using the argument that because good individual players don't guarantee team success, you don't actually need good players?

 

Max, I know it's been a rough season, but don't let it drag you all the way down.

 

We had a lot of the same studs in 2018 and 2019 (and beyond), so this theory is highly questionable.

[moonslav59]

The crazy part is, the guys we thought might be involved in the fire sale have done nothing but lose value.

 

2022 has become a spectacular fustercluck.

 

Others are on the IL with no hope of being back before the deadline.

[mvp 78]

It's been hard to remain optimistic, but I'm not ready to give up on this team. They have to get healthy though. I think with relatively good health and a few reinforcement pieces, the team can contend. Bloom will have some tough decisions to make, especially since it appears that most of our IL guys will be returning in early August, just after the deadline.

 

I don’t see it this year. I wish I shared your optimism

 

[notin]

So you're using the argument that because good individual players don't guarantee team success, you don't actually need good players?

 

Max, I know it's been a rough season, but don't let it drag you all the way down.

 

 

I don’t think that’s where he’s going.

 

If his point is getting good players limits you in the rest of your lineup, then you’re better off not having them.

 

For example, if the Sox had retained Mookie, we’d have no Bogaerts and probably no Sale (who has admittedly been a health nightmare and bad contract).

 

What’s going on with this team is they know they are limited to how many superstars they can afford long term, and therefore find it necessary to compliment them with min wage or dirt cheap players who are actually good. The trouble is figuring who these players will be. And

[notin]

Is anyone still on the no sell bandwagon?

 

I am.

 

I’m on the “acquire longer term MLB players” wagon, like maybe Christian Walker.

 

I don’t care if they unload any of Eovaldi, Wacha, Hill, Strahm, Martinez. I’d try to keep Bogaerts. But he’s have to learn a new position…

[Larry Cook]

I am.

 

I’m on the “acquire longer term MLB players” wagon, like maybe Christian Walker.

 

I don’t care if they unload any of Eovaldi, Wacha, Hill, Strahm, Martinez. I’d try to keep Bogaerts. But he’s have to learn a new position…

 

Which contending national league team needs a short stop, because I would love to send them bogey.

 

Hang’em Chaim should also move anybody else in an expiring contract for whatever prospects he can get.

[moonslav59]

I am.

 

I’m on the “acquire longer term MLB players” wagon, like maybe Christian Walker.

 

I don’t care if they unload any of Eovaldi, Wacha, Hill, Strahm, Martinez. I’d try to keep Bogaerts. But he’s have to learn a new position…

 

So, you want trades like Lester for Cespedes and Lackey for Kelly & Craig type deals?

 

(Not that we have anyone that good to trade.)

[moonslav59]

Which contending national league team needs a short stop, because I would love to send them bogey.

 

Hang’em Chaim should also move anybody else in an expiring contract for whatever prospects he can get.

 

We have 8 games to change my mind, but as of now, I'm for selling every player with one year left for the best we can get, no matter how bad it looks.

 

On 2 year players: I'd trade or can Diekman, but if we sell 9 guys, I guess we keep him around, since we're paying him for next year, too, and maybe he turns it around- same with Brasier & Barnes, who has an option for 2024. Trade Sawamura for whatever. Pay his an other's remaining contracts to sweeten the return, if necessary.

 

Devers forevers. I'll keep saying it in hopes it becomes a reality.

 

FAs after 2024, I would not mind seeing traded:

Arroyo

Verdugo (I don't want Duran & Verdugo both on the 26, next season.)

Cordero

 

That should be enough to keep Bloom busy in the next 8 days.

[Maxbialystock]

I don’t think that’s where he’s going.

 

If his point is getting good players limits you in the rest of your lineup, then you’re better off not having them.

 

For example, if the Sox had retained Mookie, we’d have no Bogaerts and probably no Sale (who has admittedly been a health nightmare and bad contract).

 

What’s going on with this team is they know they are limited to how many superstars they can afford long term, and therefore find it necessary to compliment them with min wage or dirt cheap players who are actually good. The trouble is figuring who these players will be. And

 

Exactly.

 

Let me add that Juan Soto, age 23, just turned down the insultingly lowball offer of $420M from the Washington Nationals. Devers is 25 and has demonstrated far more value than Soto. What makes anyone on Talksox think Raffy's agent isn't telling him to hold out for $500M?

[moonslav59]

Exactly.

 

Let me add that Juan Soto, age 23, just turned down the insultingly lowball offer of $420M from the Washington Nationals. Devers is 25 and has demonstrated far more value than Soto. What makes anyone on Talksox think Raffy's agent isn't telling him to hold out for $500M?

 

How has Devers shown more value?

 

Compare career numbers at age 23, no, forget that. Right now, Soto has a higher career SLG % and kills Devers in OBP by like 80 points.

 

Soto might make $500M/15 while Devers would jump at $350M/ 15.

[harmony]

Exactly.

 

Let me add that Juan Soto, age 23, just turned down the insultingly lowball offer of $420M from the Washington Nationals. Devers is 25 and has demonstrated far more value than Soto. What makes anyone on Talksox think Raffy's agent isn't telling him to hold out for $500M?

Heading into Sunday's games Juan Soto had posted 21.3 fWAR in 557 career games while Rafael Devers had posted 18.0 fWAR in 635 career games.

 

ZiPS projects Soto with 7.9 and 7.7 WAR over the next two seasons while projecting Devers with 4.5 and 4.6 WAR over the same period.

https://www.fangraphs.com/players/juan-soto/20123/stats?position=OF

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/players/rafael-devers/17350/stats?position=3B

[redsoxrules]

Exactly.

 

Let me add that Juan Soto, age 23, just turned down the insultingly lowball offer of $420M from the Washington Nationals. Devers is 25 and has demonstrated far more value than Soto. What makes anyone on Talksox think Raffy's agent isn't telling him to hold out for $500M?

 

I would say vice versa. Soto has shown more value. He's a beast at the plate. Dude has never had an OBP below 400 in any season.

[moonslav59]

I would say vice versa. Soto has shown more value. He's a beast at the plate. Dude has never had an OBP below 400 in any season.

 

 

 

.426 career OBP and .448 the last 3 years (ages 21-23).

 

Devers has never ended up over .361 in a season and is at .351 over the last 3 seasons (ages 23-25).

 

Soto has a better SLG%, too.

 

2 years younger.

[jgar658]

Is Alex Cora responsible for the Red Sox demise?

It seems no one mentions Cora in this debacle.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Is Alex Cora responsible for the Red Sox demise?

It seems no one mentions Cora in this debacle.

 

I know; imagine a manager actually playing the players on the roster assembled by his bosses.

[JDavis76]

I know; imagine a manager actually playing the players on the roster assembled by his bosses.

 

They seem unmotivated and ill prepared. That falls on cora.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

As if any manager should be able to motivate and prepare minor league batters to hit big league pitching, and minor league pitchers to get out big league hitters.

[Bellhorn04]

Is Alex Cora responsible for the Red Sox demise?

It seems no one mentions Cora in this debacle.

 

He gets mentioned plenty on the game threads.

[mvp 78]

He gets mentioned plenty on the game threads.

 

Hard to blame him for having Cordero at 1b or Downs at 3b. Downs hadn't played 3b at all in his professional career until this month. Cordero is just a bad fielder. Cora can't fix that.

 

Xander and Devers both made big strides in the field this year. If we're going to beat up Cora for bad defense, need to at least thank him for turning those two around.

[mvp 78]

Also, Duran's bad defense has been a known issue. I've been saying he sucks in CF for a long time, but some posters wanted to just put him there anyway.

[JDavis76]

As if any manager should be able to motivate and prepare minor league batters to hit big league pitching, and minor league pitchers to get out big league hitters.

 

Umm, they can't even catch a ball.

 

And if they are in a major league game, then they are major league players....

[Bellhorn04]

Hard to blame him for having Cordero at 1b or Downs at 3b. Downs hadn't played 3b at all in his professional career until this month. Cordero is just a bad fielder. Cora can't fix that.

 

Xander and Devers both made big strides in the field this year. If we're going to beat up Cora for bad defense, need to at least thank him for turning those two around.

 

About the only thing I can say is I'd rather see Refsnyder than Cordero at this point, if we're still trying to win games.

 

Cordero DH'd in Saturday's game and played LF yesterday.

Edited July 25, 2022 by Bellhorn04

[mvp 78]

About the only thing I can say is I'd rather see Refsnyder than Cordero at this point, if we're still trying to win games.

 

Cordero DH'd in Saturday's game and played LF yesterday.

 

Yes, Refsnyder not being a FT player right now is the only odd decision. He's at least capable out there. Cordero can really shove your nose in it from time to time.

[Bellhorn04]

Yes, Refsnyder not being a FT player right now is the only odd decision. He's at least capable out there. Cordero can really shove your nose in it from time to time.

 

Cordero has a .411 OPS in July with 30 K's and 3 walks, and is a bad fielder.

[mvp 78]

Cordero has a .411 OPS in July with 30 K's and 3 walks, and is a bad fielder.

 

He's not the dog s***ing on he carpet right now, he's just the actual dog s***.

[Elktonnick]

Umm, they can't even catch a ball.

 

And if they are in a major league game, then they are major league players....

Cora is and always has been a laissez-faire manager. He can take a highly motivated team and add value

However he historically has been unable and unwilling to adequately prepare his ball clubs. He defers to the players on that score

 

He does not come from the more you sweat in practice the less you bleed in combat school of thought.

 

Those who absolve Cora any role in the current state of affairs can not also absolve Bloom.

 

IMO both are equally culpable. This club is reminding more and more like the pre 1967 Red Sox.

[JDavis76]

Cora is and always has been a laissez-faire manager. He can take a highly motivated team and add value

However he historically has been unable and unwilling to adequately prepare his ball clubs. He defers to the players on that score

 

He does not come from the more you sweat in practice the less you bleed in combat school of thought.

 

Those who absolve Cora any role in the current state of affairs can not also absolve Bloom.

 

IMO both are equally culpable. This club is reminding more and more like the pre 1967 Red Sox.

 

I think he is highly over-rated by some on here.

[cukes]

I think he is highly over-rated by some on here.

 

Very over rated

[JDavis76]

Very over rated

 

I think moonslob proclaimed that he was the best manager in sox history

[cukes]

We had a lot of the same studs in 2018 and 2019 (and beyond), so this theory is highly questionable.

 

when players quit on a manager or franchise front office no matter how good they are they will not go 100% and I have seen it many times, the public does not know the inner problems that's why it starts at the top