A Realistic View at 2023: Part I

[Tedballgame]

Its sad to say that the Sox have become a penny pinching mid-market team who won't compete with the big boys (Yankees, Dodgers, Padres) for top end players. The Sox are going after bargains. Bargains don't put fans in the seats or want people to watch on T.V. If they are going to trade stars like Betts, they better be able to identify the top prospects on the team they are trading with. They totally whiffed on Jeter Downs, Verdugo and Wong for Betts. They are a boring product right now and it doesn't look promising at all for the coming years. I have no reason to renew my MLB extra innings on Directv. They aren't worth the money. Give me the days of Dan Duquette or Theo when if the Sox wanted a guy, they usually got him or at least made a huge bid.

[notin]

Once again a wrong conclusion that pointing something out is not complaining. How do you know Henry is not a bottomless pit?

 

What makes you think I was referring to you?

[moonslav59]

We do agree on the LF/DH should have been down on the importance list, and a RF with a power bat should have been a much greater need, and of course the always needed pitching, pitching, and more pitching.

 

That is my biggest beef about this winter, and if don't fill some of those higher needs, and it's because Bloom talked JH into thinking Abreu and then Yoshida was the biggest need, it's a major strike against Bloom and seriously changes my view of him as the GM. He was already at his "flashpoint," IMO, and this winter was supposed to be his defining or "legay" moment. So far, not so good is probably being nice.

 

If he spends the other $40M in good ways and or makes a good trade or two, his "grade" can be improved. If he's not allowed to spend near the $40M, then some of the blame goes to JH and whoever else decided it was better not to spend, but Bloom still "missed the boat," as far as I can see, so far.

 

If Yoshid does great, and the pen turns things around from last year, my grade can change. I wasn't thrilled with Wacha, Hill and Strahm, and I barely heard of Schreiber and Refsnyder, but those turned out better than my initial grades. The JBJ and Diekman additions turned out pretty closely to what I expected, if not worse.

 

Yes, pitching was our greatest need with SS close behind, and RF top 4 or 5, at worst.

 

The pen attention looks very good, on paper. I like Jansen and Martin way more than I did Diekman & Strahm, last winter, but when you look closer, the subtraction of Whitlock and maybe even Houck from the pen negates or almost negates those two signings, while boosting a slot or two out of the 3 open slots in the rotation. I like the pitching moves but we need a solid SP'er of the net pitching change is a clear negative, unless too many prayers are answered by Sale, Paxton, Bello and maybe Mata, Taylor, Barnes and others.

[moonslav59]

Its sad to say that the Sox have become a penny pinching mid-market team who won't compete with the big boys (Yankees, Dodgers, Padres) for top end players. The Sox are going after bargains. Bargains don't put fans in the seats or want people to watch on T.V. If they are going to trade stars like Betts, they better be able to identify the top prospects on the team they are trading with. They totally whiffed on Jeter Downs, Verdugo and Wong for Betts. They are a boring product right now and it doesn't look promising at all for the coming years. I have no reason to renew my MLB extra innings on Directv. They aren't worth the money. Give me the days of Dan Duquette or Theo when if the Sox wanted a guy, they usually got him or at least made a huge bid.

 

This makes sense, but I think we need to consider how winning is what draws the most fans. We replaced AGon, Beckett and CC with Vic, Napoli, Stephen Drew and Dempster, and fans seemed irate, at the time. The 2023 ring sure changed the mood of Sox Nation in a hurry, right?

 

If done right, it can work.

 

The Astros let Springer and Correa walk- two huge fan faves, and also let Cole and this year's CY Young winner go, and despite some minor grumblings, the team's consistent winning kept fans in the seats and watching cable TV. What we are missing is the winning more than fan fave players.

 

Sure, having stars usually leads to winning, but teams can and have won after letting them go, including us- several times.

[a700hitter]

If Bloom had a plan, it looks like he has been unable to implement it. Surely, what we are seeing from him can’t be described as a plan, unless the plan was to have a team that sucks.

[moonslav59]

Bloom "treats Hosmer right." Nice choice on who you do and who you don't...

 

“Our roster isn’t complete yet, but as we build our club, we feel it’s important to give Triston a clear lane, and that carrying two left-handed hitting first basemen would leave us short in other areas. Given that, it’s important to do right by Eric and give him time to find his next opportunity. We knew when we first got him that this day would come at some point, and wanted to make sure we treated him right.”

[jad]

If Bloom had a plan, it looks like he has been unable to implement it. Surely, what we are seeing from him can’t be described as a plan, unless the plan was to have a team that sucks.

 

I think his 'plan' is that of all new bosses: to make his mark by filling all the positions he can with 'his' guys, and that of course means getting rid of 'the other guy's guys.' Thus Betts, Bogey, Beni ... guys like that just don't count. And if he can save the owner millions of dollars in the process, great!

 

All the lying, hypocrisy, contempt for players and fans ... that's just extra.

[Hugh2]

I think his 'plan' is that of all new bosses: to make his mark by filling all the positions he can with 'his' guys, and that of course means getting rid of 'the other guy's guys.' Thus Betts, Bogey, Beni ... guys like that just don't count. And if he can save the owner millions of dollars in the process, great!

 

All the lying, hypocrisy, contempt for players and fans ... that's just extra.

 

If that was the plan why not trade Bogey and Devers years ago when the return would have been much nicer? And her have his “own guys” in much sooner.

[jad]

If that was the plan why not trade Bogey and Devers years ago when the return would have been much nicer? And her have his “own guys” in much sooner.

 

True enough. But then, there's no evidence whatsoever that he has executed any plan particularly well, right?

[moonslav59]

True enough. But then, there's no evidence whatsoever that he has executed any plan particularly well, right?

 

So, maybe the "plan" was to let Betts go to free agency and trade Bogey, but Bloom messed up the plan.

[Hugh2]

True enough. But then, there's no evidence whatsoever that he has executed any plan particularly well, right?

 

Clear out payroll, rebuild the farm.

[moonslav59]

Clear out payroll, rebuild the farm.

 

Red will tell you there is no proof the farm was improved until we see results, but he wants Bloom canned before- the proof has any chance of presenting itself.

 

The Bello & Bloom call-ups are the residual affects of DD's farm, but I guess one could argue, Bloom did not trade them away, like some would have done a year or two ago, or even more recently.

 

Others will tell you the budget will be about what it was when Bloom took over, and only the Sale deal remains to blame it all on DD.

 

Like Ben, before him, his contributions may only be realized by the next GM, just as Bloom may see some boost from DD's farm, soon.

[Hugh2]

Red will tell you there is no proof the farm was improved until we see results, but he wants Bloom canned before- the proof has any chance of presenting itself.

 

The Bello & Bloom call-ups are the residual affects of DD's farm, but I guess one could argue, Bloom did not trade them away, like some would have done a year or two ago, or even more recently.

 

Others will tell you the budget will be about what it was when Bloom took over, and only the Sale deal remains to blame it all on DD.

 

Like Ben, before him, his contributions may only be realized by the next GM, just as Bloom may see some boost from DD's farm, soon.

 

The farm is light years better, but marginally due to his trading which maybe added depth. Largely it’s been his drafting, IFA, and retention as well.

[moonslav59]

Report: Sox interested in another DH... JD!

 

https://wwcw.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/12/red-sox-have-interest-in-j-d-martinez-reunion.html

 

Does Bloom know there are other positions we need?

[moonslav59]

The farm is light years better, but marginally due to his trading which maybe added depth. Largely it’s been his drafting, IFA, and retention as well.

 

I agree, but it is just "on paper," so far, except the Whitlock farm addition via Rule 5, which has paid dividends worth more than the 5 year stretch of DD farm impacts between Devers (not his farm guy) and Bello/Casas.

[Old Red]

Red will tell you there is no proof the farm was improved until we see results, but he wants Bloom canned before- the proof has any chance of presenting itself.

 

The Bello & Bloom call-ups are the residual affects of DD's farm, but I guess one could argue, Bloom did not trade them away, like some would have done a year or two ago, or even more recently.

 

Others will tell you the budget will be about what it was when Bloom took over, and only the Sale deal remains to blame it all on DD.

 

Like Ben, before him, his contributions may only be realized by the next GM, just as Bloom may see some boost from DD's farm, soon.

 

Thanks for the shoutout. Casas, Bello, and Mayer all have plenty of hype, but none of them has lived up to that hype yet, but if they do it will be a banner crop for the farm along with a few others. I understand there has been a drought as of late.

[moonslav59]

I understand there has been a drought as of late.

 

Glad you finally came to understand this. Now, if you could only understand what a powerful impact this has on the team's roster and budget, and how it makes it extremely difficult for any GM to build a winning and consistent team.

 

Devers was called up in 2017. He was a Ben addition from 2013 that DD chose not to trade away- thank God!

 

Houck is the only notable prospect called up between Devers and Bello, and as you pointed out Bello has yet to "live uo to the hype," so yes "a drought" is a good word to describe only Houck in 5+ years.

 

Whitlock did not come from our farm, but he was a farm addition by Bloom, who made an immediate impact greater than all the prospects combined in those 5 year. He has exceeded "the hype," so to say.

 

The next impact players will be DD guys- Casas, Bello, Rafaela, Mata, Walter and maybe Paulino, Perales, Wikleman and others. It took or will take 4-7+ years form these guys yo "live up to the hype" or not. Bloom only started adding players to the farm, 3 years ago, and we already have seen Whitlocm and lesser ones like Wong, Wink and Seabold. Coming sooner or later are... Mayer, Yorke, Bleis, Romero, Anthony and others like Jordan, Hickey, Kavadas, Valdez and Rodriguez-Cruz, among others.

 

We should see a flood of incoming prospects, of which a few are almost surely going to be impactful, but it's just speculation, now.

 

[Old Red]

Glad you finally came to understand this. Now, if you could only understand what a powerful impact this has on the team's roster and budget, and how it makes it extremely difficult for any GM to build a winning and consistent team.

 

Devers was called up in 2017. He was a Ben addition from 2013 that DD chose not to trade away- thank God!

 

Houck is the only notable prospect called up between Devers and Bello, and as you pointed out Bello has yet to "live uo to the hype," so yes "a drought" is a good word to describe only Houck in 5+ years.

 

Whitlock did not come from our farm, but he was a farm addition by Bloom, who made an immediate impact greater than all the prospects combined in those 5 year. He has exceeded "the hype," so to say.

 

The next impact players will be DD guys- Casas, Bello, Rafaela, Mata, Walter and maybe Paulino, Perales, Wikleman and others. It took or will take 4-7+ years form these guys yo "live up to the hype" or not. Bloom only started adding players to the farm, 3 years ago, and we already have seen Whitlocm and lesser ones like Wong, Wink and Seabold. Coming sooner or later are... Mayer, Yorke, Bleis, Romero, Anthony and others like Jordan, Hickey, Kavadas, Valdez and Rodriguez-Cruz, among others.

 

We should see a flood of incoming prospects, of which a few are almost surely going to be impactful, but it's just speculation, now.

 

I have always understood the importance of the farm system ever since my favorite Red Sox team of all 1967 was all pretty much all homegrown, and young at the time, and then to follow that up with the Rice, Lynn Fisk, Evans teams of the 70’s. Now those were bumper crops.

[moonslav59]

I have always understood the importance of the farm system ever since my favorite Red Sox team of all 1967 was all pretty much all homegrown, and young at the time, and then to follow that up with the Rice, Lynn Fisk, Evans teams of the 70’s. Now those were bumper crops.

 

Yet, Bloom is given no or very little leeway when you look at the farm infusions of all or wiing teams vs what he got in 3 years plus what was added in the previous 2 years before he took over.

 

You never seem to take any context into account.

 

Would the 67, or 75, or any winning Sox team been nearly as good with next to nothing in the 5 years prior to those good seasons?

 

Yet, somehow yours and others' expectations don't seem to take that into account.

 

Add to that the burdensome contracts he inherited and the sporadic declines of the vets and "stars", plus the mandate to trade Betts and Price, but nope: bottom line is winning and winning only. Everything else is just "an excuse."

 

Well, the "excuse" for winning was having impactful farm infusions leading up to the glory years or close to glory years.

[moonslav59]

I have always understood the importance of the farm system ...

 

But you won't acknowledge how the lack of it affects a GM's chances at quickly building a winner.

[Behindenemylines]

Realistically as the team stands it is going to be a long season. Last place here we come!

[Old Red]

Realistically as the team stands it is going to be a long season. Last place here we come!

 

No. Last place here we stay.

[moonslav59]

Realistically as the team stands it is going to be a long season. Last place here we come!

 

Can the Orioles really say they should be better at over half their starting 9?

 

Did the Jays and Rays improve?

 

Is the addition of Rodon outweigh the loss of Taillon, Chapman, Gallo and others?

 

The winter is not over, There will likely be a trade flurry that improves some teams and maybe hurts others in 2023.

[notin]

Can the Orioles really say they should be better at over half their starting 9?

 

Did the Jays and Rays improve?

 

Is the addition of Rodon outweigh the loss of Taillon, Chapman, Gallo and others?

 

The winter is not over, There will likely be a trade flurry that improves some teams and maybe hurts others in 2023.

 

There is absolutely more treading water than we realize. But those other teams did start treading a lot closer to shore…

[Tedballgame]

JDM to Dodgers, one year, 10 million.

[harmony]

Can the Orioles really say they should be better at over half their starting 9?

 

Did the Jays and Rays improve?

 

Is the addition of Rodon outweigh the loss of Taillon, Chapman, Gallo and others?

 

The winter is not over, There will likely be a trade flurry that improves some teams and maybe hurts others in 2023.

We're counting on you to provide optimism but the Red Sox currently look a mess from this outsider's perspective.

[moonslav59]

We're counting on you to provide optimism but the Red Sox currently look a mess from this outsider's perspective.

 

I'm not feeling very cheery about the winter moves, so far. A Devers extension would help, for the long term, but 2023 looks depressing, despite the odd belief I have that we should be better at 1B, 2B, 3B, LF, CF, RF and maybe even or close to even at DH and Catcher. Our pen is better. We are worse at SS, SP1, SP2. Those 3 slots are big step downs, but overall, it doesn't look as bad as I feel. Right now, I won't try to convince anyone it's snot so bad, because I'm not feeling it, myself.

 

 

 

[Larry Cook]

Our bullpen is significantly improved our last year’s bullpen. Starting pitching is thin, but if healthy, might be better than last year. Offense has more holes than Swiss cheese.

[Old Red]

Cora has been pretty quiet through all that has gone on, or hasn’t gone n this offseason. I wonder what he thinks of the 2023/Red Sox as it stands today compared to last year. Outside of the BP I can’t believe he’s to pleased.

[Bellhorn04]

Chaim's Tortoise and the Hare act this offseason will really come under intense scrutiny if they don't do something soon. Players are flying off the shelves this Christmas at Ball-Mart, even at jacked-up prices.