A Realistic View at 2023: Part I

[moonslav59]

No more than 5 guys on that list are worth a crap.

 

Even 5 is 5 more than 4 of the last 5 years produced and 4 more than the year Houck came up and the year Devers came up (2017).

 

Also, 6-11 are good enought o produce 2, maybe 3, "ROLE PLAYERS."

 

People choose to see the worst in everything.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I keep hearing some people talking about trade. Who are we going to trade for that would fetch a good player? Apparently the whole point of bloom being here was to rebuild the farm. They are not going to trade their good prospects away and that leaves not much for trade candidates. What are we going to trade? Junk for junk?

 

The only MLB players with years of control that might headline a trade package include Houck, Pivetta and Verdugo. Story already makes too much.

 

But we all know the biggest candidate is Raffy.

[Old Red]

Even 5 is 5 more than 4 of the last 5 years produced and 4 more than the year Houck came up and the year Devers came up (2017).

 

Also, 6-11 are good enought o produce 2, maybe 3, "ROLE PLAYERS."

 

People choose to see the worst in everything.

 

A losing last place in the Div team will do that.

[Old Red]

No more than 5 guys on that list are worth a crap.

 

Yes, but plenty of hype.

[moonslav59]

The only MLB players with years of control that might headline a trade package include Houck, Pivetta and Verdugo. Story already makes too much.

 

But we all know the biggest candidate is Raffy.

 

Maybe our best trade options are...

 

1. Someone like Dugo plus a decent but not great prospect for a better RF'er, Pivetta and a prospect for a better SP....

 

2. Take on a salary dump to lessen what we need to give up in return.

 

3. Take on a straight salary dump, like Ottavino & German, 2 winters ago.

 

4. Just keep building the farm and punt away 2023.

Edited December 18, 2022 by moonslav59

[Hugh2]

At this point, I would add Segura and move Story or SS, keep Kike in CF until he plays himself out of a job. Pick up Conforto for RF/DH. Add Kluber. And we still need a RH OFer.

 

And who plays SS Will Story blows his shoulder out making throws?

 

I like it, but Segura is a plus defender at SS…we should keep him there. Like Conforto/Kluber. Or at the very least I like them from what is left.

 

I think those names youve mentioned are very plausible for the Sox. We haven’t heard the aspx attached to them, which is probably good news this year. Every time we hear about the Sox being attached to someone they sign elsewhere.

[Hugh2]

Actually who has the weaker arm between Segura/Story. Have to think Andrus is in play too. But I’d prefer Segura.

[Old Red]

Blow his shoulder out? I haven’t heard anyone from the Red Sox say that Story is physically able to play SS, so why all the fuss.

[moonslav59]

Is Segura still a decent SS on D?

[notin]

Even 5 is 5 more than 4 of the last 5 years produced and 4 more than the year Houck came up and the year Devers came up (2017).

 

Also, 6-11 are good enought o produce 2, maybe 3, "ROLE PLAYERS."

 

People choose to see the worst in everything.

 

 

Like anyone commenting about “finishing behind the Orioles” as if they were still the 52-110 team from 2021.

 

Yes, the Sox (along with 14 other teams) did finish behind the Orioles. But then the Orioles also missed the postseason by only 3 games, were the best team in the AL East in the second half, and were only 4 games off the pace of the NL pennant winner. They were a good team, and while we certainly don’t want to finish behind them, this fact gets represented like it’s the hallmark of failure despite the fact the the Orioles had the best record of any AL team not in the postseason…

[notin]

Is Segura still a decent SS on D?

 

No, but then he never was…

[Tedballgame]

Even 5 is 5 more than 4 of the last 5 years produced and 4 more than the year Houck came up and the year Devers came up (2017).

 

Also, 6-11 are good enought o produce 2, maybe 3, "ROLE PLAYERS."

 

People choose to see the worst in everything.

 

I am just being realistic. Most of the guys on that list suck. They can't help a contending team, which the Sox aren't so I suppose Bloom will keep them all. Couldn't trade them for anything.

[moonslav59]

No, but then he never was…

 

Never even "decent?"

[moonslav59]

I am just being realistic. Most of the guys on that list suck. They can't help a contending team, which the Sox aren't so I suppose Bloom will keep them all. Couldn't trade them for anything.

 

I never said most were going to be great. I commented on the fact that this is the "most" we've had in many years and those some of the lower ones may earn a role in support.

 

The top 11 or 12 do not suck. Yes, they are not big trade bait.

 

The top 5-6 look good enough to at least fill supporting roles with 3-4 of the group winning key roles as not only being possible but more like probable. It may take longer than 2023 to prove it, and my statement was about 2023, but I like Casas, Bello, Mata and one from the rest to be helpful in '23.

 

I don't think I'm choosing anything outlandish, but I'm not choosing doom & gloom on every aspect of the Sox just because we lost Bogey and have not added much else.

 

People choose negativity.

[Old Red]

Like anyone commenting about “finishing behind the Orioles” as if they were still the 52-110 team from 2021.

 

Yes, the Sox (along with 14 other teams) did finish behind the Orioles. But then the Orioles also missed the postseason by only 3 games, were the best team in the AL East in the second half, and were only 4 games off the pace of the NL pennant winner. They were a good team, and while we certainly don’t want to finish behind them, this fact gets represented like it’s the hallmark of failure despite the fact the the Orioles had the best record of any AL team not in the postseason…

 

What a feel good story to say the Red Sox, and 14 other teams finished behind the O’s. I’m sure most fans will overlook the fact that the Red Sox had a losing record also. In other words don’t worry, and be happy that things aren’t as bad as it seems.

[Hugh2]

I can see the case for Story at SS, but with the new shift rules in effect next year 2nD will be practically just as important as SS, I’d rather keep the weaker arm at 2nd in that scenario.

[Hugh2]

Or you know, we could just sign Andrus instead

[Old Red]

I never said most were going to be great. I commented on the fact that this is the "most" we've had in many years and those some of the lower ones may earn a role in support.

 

The top 11 or 12 do not suck. Yes, they are not big trade bait.

 

The top 5-6 look good enough to at least fill supporting roles with 3-4 of the group winning key roles as not only being possible but more like probable. It may take longer than 2023 to prove it, and my statement was about 2023, but I like Casas, Bello, Mata and one from the rest to be helpful in '23.

 

I don't think I'm choosing anything outlandish, but I'm not choosing doom & gloom on every aspect of the Sox just because we lost Bogey and have not added much else.

 

People choose negativity.

Negative results brings out negativity.

[moonslav59]

Negative results brings out negativity.

 

Maybe the negative results were a direct result of having just a very few prospects even called up to get a look, since Devers, and the "results" of just having one, Houck, a success story or something "positive" was the expectation. It's funny how those who saw this coming were called out for being negative or overly negative, and now the expected results came upon us, and the roles have switched.

 

Call-up since Devers in 2017:

 

Chavis

Shawaryn

Lakins

DHern

Dalbec

Duran

Houck

Downs

 

This 5 year list looks worse than the Aug '22 to July '23 list rates to be.

 

I choose to see this aspect as being a positive thing.

 

Others choose negativity over and over.

 

[Old Red]

Maybe the negative results were a direct result of having just a very few prospects even called up to get a look, since Devers, and the "results" of just having one, Houck, a success story or something "positive" was the expectation. It's funny how those who saw this coming were called out for being negative or overly negative, and now the expected results came upon us, and the roles have switched.

 

Call-up since Devers in 2017:

 

Chavis

Shawaryn

Lakins

DHern

Dalbec

Duran

Houck

Downs

 

This 5 year list looks worse than the Aug '22 to July '23 list rates to be.

 

I choose to see this aspect as being a positive thing.

 

Others choose negativity over and over.

 

 

You keep up bringing up the same excuse/reason over, and over, and over again like that’s the sole reason, and everyone knows it’s not. I will agree it’s part of the problem, but a long ways from being the only problem. Bloom’s decision making, or lack there of is a bigger reason to me. Just in the past year getting rid of a 96 RBI player with 2 arb years left for a more expensive replacement who couldn’t hit his weight, and had to be released made the team worse. Not getting a closer, or anything close to start this past season made the club worse. Sitting on his hands for 2 months watching Franchy StrangeGlove, and Duran the Butterfly Man try to play some resemblance of D, and doing nothing about it made the club worse. Injuries made the club worse. Lack of production from top players made the club worse. Not having anyone ready to go from the farm from a drought is a reason, but a longs ways from being the only, or most important.

[moonslav59]

Just a few of the prospects that came up in the "good ole days:"

 

2004: Youkilis

2005: Papelbon, HRam & Schoppach

2006: Pedroia & Lester

2007: Buchholz & Ellsbury

2008: Lowrie & Masterson

2009: D Bard

2010: Nava & Doubront

2011: Reddick & Iggy

2012: Middlebrook

2013: Bogaerts, Workman & Alex Wilson

2014: Betts, Vaz & JBJ

2015: ERod, T Shaw & Barnes

2016: Beni

2017: Devers

2018: B Johnson & H Velazquez

2019: Chavis, Walden & Josh Taylor

2020: Houck & Dalbec

2021: Duran

2022 (late): Bello & Casas

 

[notin]

Or you know, we could just sign Andrus instead

 

Sign Andrus. Sign Fulmer. (Houck to rotation - ugh.)

 

Either sign Anderson for RF or Brantley for DH…

[moonslav59]

Sign Andrus. Sign Fulmer. (Houck to rotation - ugh.)

 

Either sign Anderson for RF or Brantley for DH…

 

Brantley just signed with HOU.

 

What about J Turner for a DH? (Not that I want us spending there.)

[Bellhorn04]

As much as people, including me, have brought up the idea that they're punting 2023, we know that's not the actual intention, because there's no way you sign a closer for 2/32 if it is.

 

So there will be more moves, but Bloom will continue to torture us like the Marquis de Sade for a while yet.

[moonslav59]

As much as people, including me, have brought up the idea that they're punting 2023, we know that's not the actual intention, because there's no way you sign a closer for 2/32 if it is.

 

So there will be more moves, but Bloom will continue to torture us like the Marquis de Sade for a while yet.

 

It's all in for '25- Jansen, included!

 

[moonslav59]

Maybe, they still think can fool the fans and media with this "staying competitive" crap by going through a few silly motions- all shorter term deals, which is the dead give-away.

 

If the window was now, we'd see more longer term deals than Story and Yoshida. That's all we've had since DD, and neither are all that large or all that long, either.

[Bellhorn04]

Maybe, they still think can fool the fans and media with this "staying competitive" crap by going through a few silly motions- all shorter term deals, which is the dead give-away.

 

But it worked in 2021.

 

In 2013 as well, for that matter.

[moonslav59]

But it worked in 2021.

 

In 2013 as well, for that matter.

 

It may work, this year, if everything goes right, but I doubt even they truly expect competitiveness in '23, on any higher level than maybe scraping into a WC slot.

[Bellhorn04]

It may work, this year, if everything goes right, but I doubt even they truly expect competitiveness in '23, on any higher level than maybe scraping into a WC slot.

 

Agreed.

[moonslav59]

Agreed.

 

I do think they felt the same in '21 and '22.