Fire Bloom .

[Bellhorn04]

You like Bloom . That's okay. You like some guys and you dislike others. And that effects your judgement. I try to be more objective.

 

You're 100% results-oriented. That's fine, a lot of people are. But you don't want to hear about how are farm is improving, because we're in last place.

[notin]

The team got worse. Bloom is the guy in charge. People will draw their own conclusions.

 

Some of us predicted this years ago.

 

But hey, a lot of people scoff at the whole notion of a cliff. Yet here we are. It turns out players DO get worse as they age, even if you pay them the same. It turns out having no one in AAA or AAA to fill those gaps or trade for someone who can actually is a problem.

 

And yes, Bloom is at the wheel as the team goes over the cliff, but he’s not the one who put on the Sox on this path…

[dgalehouse]

You're 100% results-oriented. That's fine, a lot of people are. But you don't want to hear about how are farm is improving, because we're in last place.

 

It's just reality as opposed to opinion. Someone who evaluates farm systems feels that the Red Sox system is improving. Fine. It will be a reality if or when we see the results on the Sox.

[Old Red]

It's just reality as opposed to opinion. Someone who evaluates farm systems feels that the Red Sox system is improving. Fine. It will be a reality if or when we see the results on the Sox.

 

Like Casas today. Finally.

Edited September 4, 2022 by Old Red

[Hugh2]

You're 100% results-oriented. That's fine, a lot of people are. But you don't want to hear about how are farm is improving, because we're in last place.

 

This is fair, but if you play your chips correctly, a strong farm typically precedes results.

[Bellhorn04]

I think the Story signing has gotten somewhat of a bum rap because of his Colorado numbers. His road OPS was close to Bogey's. And Fenway is well suited to his swing.

[Bellhorn04]

This is fair, but if you play your chips correctly, a strong farm typically precedes results.

 

100%

[notin]

This is fair, but if you play your chips correctly, a strong farm typically precedes results.

 

2018 doesn’t happen without the 2011 draft…

[Hugh2]

100%

 

To also be fair, you can overplay your hand. A strong farm coupled with money to spend should equate to an a better product on the fields

 

It would certainly give us more interesting things to argue over in here.

[notin]

To also be fair, you can overplay your hand. A strong farm coupled with money to spend should equate to an a better product on the fields

 

It would certainly give us more interesting things to argue over in here.

 

The ideal situation is to have a strong farm and spend money to fill the gaps and retain the stars. The worst thing a team can do is just try to fill everything by spending money when these not farm.

 

Cherington had the rare successful spending spree in 2013 largely due to not signing anyone for more than 3 years…

[moonslav59]

You like Bloom . That's okay. You like some guys and you dislike others. And that effects your judgement. I try to be more objective.

 

So do I. I'm thinking your bias is making you subjective, not me, but I guess it's a;; about perspective.

 

(I have been highly critical of Bloom on a few things.)

[moonslav59]

Add Paxton to that list.

 

Yes, My bad...

 

Pluses and minuses:

 

Negative:

JBJ trade

Paxton (more of a signing for 2023>, but bad for 2022)

Diekman signing (turned into a plus by dumping his contract and acquiring McGuire for multiple years)

Vaz (but adding prospects and Mcguire negates the loss)

 

OK:

Hill

 

???

Story

Hosmer (free)

Prospects Added via trades since the end of 2021: EValdez, WAbreu, MFerguson, ABinelas, DHamilton, C Rosier

 

Good:

Strahm

Pham

 

Great:

Wacha

Schreiber

Refsnyder

McGuire (doing better than Vaz, so far)

 

[moonslav59]

Some of us predicted this years ago.

 

But hey, a lot of people scoff at the whole notion of a cliff. Yet here we are. It turns out players DO get worse as they age, even if you pay them the same. It turns out having no one in AAA or AAA to fill those gaps or trade for someone who can actually is a problem.

 

Part of me wonders if this is a major reason for so much anger directed at Bloom. It's a way of deflecting from the reality some denied years ago.

 

Now, they claim objectivity and not being biased in their opinions.

 

LOL.

[moonslav59]

2018 doesn’t happen without the 2011 draft…

 

But, somehow, Bloom was supposed to not only build up the farm like a few years after 2011, but be getting results from that farm, RIGHT NOW!

 

We are seeing the results of the 2016-2019 farm, now.

[Bobe2]

I get that, and we keep hearing the JBJ trade as a a major reason, when the overall moves he's made were a net plus- BY FAR!

 

Go ahead and blame Bloom for nearly every returning vet's decline from 2021. I guess he should have traded them all, last winter.

 

Now, even Devers has joined the declining OPS group and Houck, who was a bout even from 2021 is out.

 

Only Vaz improved from the vets Bloom inherited. Go ahead and blame him for that.

 

The reason everybody blames Bloom is because he did little to improve the team on the field over the winter (spent on pitching) in fact because of the Renfroe trade he made it weaker, if the team that was on the field today or something similar started in the spring I doubt the bashing would be going on, today’s infield, two .250 25 hr guys for the outfield, a genuine dh, keep Pham, Verdugo, Wheeler, refsnyder, Arroyo and spend the rest on pitching and I think Redsox fans would stop bashing.

[moonslav59]

The reason everybody blames Bloom is because he did little to improve the team on the field over the winter (spent on pitching) in fact because of the Renfroe trade he made it weaker, if the team that was on the field today or something similar started in the spring I doubt the bashing would be going on, today’s infield, two .250 25 hr guys for the outfield, a genuine dh, keep Pham, Verdugo, Wheeler, refsnyder, Arroyo and spend the rest on pitching and I think Redsox fans would stop bashing.

 

So, signing Wacha at an unbelievable $7M is "little?"

 

Getting Schreiber and Refsnyder for nothing was just "a little?"

 

Strahm, Pham, McGuire were just "a little?

 

The guys Bloom added were about the only ones who did well.

 

Guys like Bogey, Devers and Houck did fine, but they all declined or got hurt. Every other returning vet inherited by Bloom declined, except Vaz.

 

Do you really think the JBJ trade outweighed Wacha, Schreiber, Refsnyder, McQuire, Strahm, Hill, Pham and his carryovers like Whitlock, Dugo and Wong.

 

[Bobe2]

So, signing Wacha at an unbelievable $7M is "little?"

 

Getting Schreiber and Refsnyder for nothing was just "a little?"

 

Strahm, Pham, McGuire were just "a little?

 

The guys Bloom added were about the only ones who did well.

 

Guys like Bogey, Devers and Houck did fine, but they all declined or got hurt. Every other returning vet inherited by Bloom declined, except Vaz.

 

Do you really think the JBJ trade outweighed Wacha, Schreiber, Refsnyder, McQuire, Strahm, Hill, Pham and his carryovers like Whitlock, Dugo and Wong.

 

I’m talking players on the field, not pitching, that we’re there in the spring, you ask why he’s getting bashed so hard, I told you why, deal with it, it’s not just me but most of Red Sox nation. You can’t even talk about the Sox without somebody in the group saying fire Bloom, thats from one end of the state to the other

[Bobe2]

So, signing Wacha at an unbelievable $7M is "little?"

 

Getting Schreiber and Refsnyder for nothing was just "a little?"

 

Strahm, Pham, McGuire were just "a little?

 

The guys Bloom added were about the only ones who did well.

 

Guys like Bogey, Devers and Houck did fine, but they all declined or got hurt. Every other returning vet inherited by Bloom declined, except Vaz.

 

Do you really think the JBJ trade outweighed Wacha, Schreiber, Refsnyder, McQuire, Strahm, Hill, Pham and his carryovers like Whitlock, Dugo and Wong.

 

 

Wacha was a good deal to bad it was for one year ( no foresight) and he had to pitch on a team that went nowhere

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Just remembering from my own subjective reality: there were as many posts here beginning last offseason, speculating/wishing/hoping/agreeing/disagreeing/discussing about moves that Bloom did not make -- players he did not acquire, positions he did not fill... than posts complaining about guys he actually added.

 

You can't just defend him by listing the players he signed. Not when anyone who knows how to read a schedule in June knew who the Red Sox were facing in July, and the deficiencies on the roster.

[Bobe2]

Just remembering from my own subjective reality: there were as many posts here beginning last offseason, speculating/wishing/hoping/agreeing/disagreeing/discussing about moves that Bloom did not make -- players he did not acquire, positions he did not fill... than posts complaining about guys he actually added.

 

You can't just defend him by listing the players he signed. Not when anyone who knows how to read a schedule in June knew who the Red Sox were facing in July, and the deficiencies on the roster.

 

Well said

[moonslav59]

Wacha was a good deal to bad it was for one year ( no foresight) and he had to pitch on a team that went nowhere

 

So, on balance, were the Bloom additions a net plus or minus:

 

+

Wacha

Schreiber

Refsnyder

Strahm

McGuire

Pham

 

???

Story

Hill

Hosmer

Paxton

Prospects: EValdez, WAbreu, MFerguson, ABinelas, DHamilton, C Rosier

 

-

Renfroe>JBJ

Diekman (turned into McGuire)

 

It seems to me, Blooms biggest mistake was not knowing which vets were going to decline and trading them just before their declines- fan faves or not, and most of the ones who declined the most were carry-over vets, while most of Blooms additions did pretty well. To the Bloom dislikers: is this true or not?

 

Edited September 4, 2022 by moonslav59

[moonslav59]

Just remembering from my own subjective reality: there were as many posts here beginning last offseason, speculating/wishing/hoping/agreeing/disagreeing/discussing about moves that Bloom did not make -- players he did not acquire, positions he did not fill... than posts complaining about guys he actually added.

 

You can't just defend him by listing the players he signed. Not when anyone who knows how to read a schedule in June knew who the Red Sox were facing in July, and the deficiencies on the roster.

 

Did he have an endless b udget to sign all those players posters pined for?

 

Yes, in hindsight, we should have signed Martin Perez not Rich Hill, and I remember many wanting Perez back.

 

LOL

[notin]

Just remembering from my own subjective reality: there were as many posts here beginning last offseason, speculating/wishing/hoping/agreeing/disagreeing/discussing about moves that Bloom did not make -- players he did not acquire, positions he did not fill... than posts complaining about guys he actually added.

 

You can't just defend him by listing the players he signed. Not when anyone who knows how to read a schedule in June knew who the Red Sox were facing in July, and the deficiencies on the roster.

 

While true, it creates a bit of an unknown space. I mean, there’s always the possibility Bloom was in on those players, but another team paid more or was just preferable, or the other team wanted too much in an trade.

 

Like at one point early this year, you suggested Bloom should have acquired Sean Manaea. And that would have been a good fill-in for Sale that saved this team a lot of bullpen headaches. But Bloom didn’t acquire him, and the Padres got him relatively cheap.

 

Did Bloom miss out? Or did he try but Oakland just wanted so much?

 

When you think of the moves he didn’t make, you have to be open to the idea he was at least in on them…

[oldtimer]

So, on balance, were the Bloom additions a net plus or minus:

 

+

Wacha

Schreiber

Refsnyder

Strahm

McGuire

Pham

 

???

Story

Hill

Hosmer

Paxton

Prospects: EValdez, WAbreu, MFerguson, ABinelas, DHamilton, C Rosier

 

-

Renfroe>JBJ

Diekman (turned into McGuire)

 

It seems to me, Blooms biggest mistake was not knowing which vets were going to decline and trading them just before their declines- fan faves or not, and most of the ones who declined the most were carry-over vets, while most of Blooms additions did pretty well. To the Bloom dislikers: is this true or not?

 

 

I was of the opinion that most active posters on the site believe Bloom has made some decent moves but has also not acted quickly to fill holes an has made some questionable moves. What none of us know is what resources he was allowed to utilize. Bloom will be given 2023 to show better results and the expectation is that he will have a substantial budget to work with. How the Sox handle Bogey and Devers will be important and how active Bloom is in the offseason and the wisdom of his moves will be questioned. Ultimately, the results will tell fandom how well Bloom is doing his job.

[moonslav59]

While true, it creates a bit of an unknown space. I mean, there’s always the possibility Bloom was in on those players, but another team paid more or was just preferable, or the other team wanted too much in an trade.

 

Like at one point early this year, you suggested Bloom should have acquired Sean Manaea. And that would have been a good fill-in for Sale that saved this team a lot of bullpen headaches. But Bloom didn’t acquire him, and the Padres got him relatively cheap.

 

Did Bloom miss out? Or did he try but Oakland just wanted so much?

 

When you think of the moves he didn’t make, you have to be open to the idea he was at least in on them…

 

And, it's not always as easy as it seems to think or say, "Hey, the offer the A's accepted was pretty low. We could have beaten that by offering so and so." Maybe- maybe not. Maybe Bloom did miss a good opportunity. Maybe they wanted Rafaela or Bello and others.

 

I'm also not convinced Bloom had the Story money to spend, until JH heard the rumblings of Sox Nation and suddenly said, "Okay, you can spend $140M/6." Maybe, and this is pure conjecture, Bloom might have made other moves had he known he could go over the tax line in December.

 

(Maybe he overbids for Suzuki and/or Baez...UGH!!!)

[moonslav59]

I know prospects aren't worth much, until they produce at the big league level or are traded for someone who does, but can we revisit one aspect of the deadline trades by Bloom?

 

The Vaz and Diekman trades.

 

Diekman ($4M x 2) for McGuire ($766K + 3 arbs)

McGuire .816 in 62 PAs

Diekman 4.66 ERA in 9.2 IP/ 2.07 WHIP

 

Vazquez ($7M w 2 months remaining of team control) for Enmanuel Valdez & Wilyer Abreu

Vazquez .653 in 52 PAs w HOU

Minors:

EValdez: .304 28 104 (AA/AAA) .389 OBP/ .579 SLG/ .968 OPS (60BB/107K in 437 ABs) He has 54 HRs over the last 2 seasons (802 ABs)

WAbreu: .246 17 67 (AA) .395 OBP/ .433 SLG/ .828 OPS (102 BB/142 K in 423 ABs)

 

The results of the trades are not over, yet, but when you combine these two trades, we gained 3 years of team control at the catcher position, while saving money. The production on O will likely drop over time, but who knows how well Vaz will do going forward and at what cost? Dumping Diekman's contract was a great part of the deal and when you com bine what we owed Vaz and Diekman over the final 2 months plus Diekman's $4M, next year, that may pay for McGuire's 3 arb years. Then, we have some hopes for Valdez and Abreu.

 

The Hosmer and Pham deals will take more time to evaluate, but neither looks bad, off the bat.

 

[Old Red]

1-6-9

 

1 game from 500

 

6 games in the L column from getting out of last place in the Div.

 

9 games back in the L column for last Wild Card spot.

 

Get to 500, and let’s play spoiler, and let’s see what Casas can do.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

While true, it creates a bit of an unknown space. I mean, there’s always the possibility Bloom was in on those players, but another team paid more or was just preferable, or the other team wanted too much in an trade.

 

Like at one point early this year, you suggested Bloom should have acquired Sean Manaea. And that would have been a good fill-in for Sale that saved this team a lot of bullpen headaches. But Bloom didn’t acquire him, and the Padres got him relatively cheap.

 

Did Bloom miss out? Or did he try but Oakland just wanted so much?

 

When you think of the moves he didn’t make, you have to be open to the idea he was at least in on them…

 

Fair point. When guys like us spend time making trade proposals, we realize we're not experts and have barely any inside knowledge of factors behind deals that happen or don't.

 

But when a guy like Tommy Pham says publicly he shoulda been here in the Spring -- I'm not saying the front office owes us an explanation, but at least we can hope a beat reporter or agent or someone can reveal some info...

[jad]

So, signing Wacha at an unbelievable $7M is "little?"

 

Getting Schreiber and Refsnyder for nothing was just "a little?"

 

Strahm, Pham, McGuire were just "a little?

 

The guys Bloom added were about the only ones who did well.

 

Guys like Bogey, Devers and Houck did fine, but they all declined or got hurt. Every other returning vet inherited by Bloom declined, except Vaz.

 

Do you really think the JBJ trade outweighed Wacha, Schreiber, Refsnyder, McQuire, Strahm, Hill, Pham and his carryovers like Whitlock, Dugo and Wong.

 

 

The anti-Bogaerts crowd mystifies me, as here, supporting the myth of a Bogaerts "decline." He's leading the league in hitting. (Or does that stat not count!). OK; he's better than his career WAR (whatever that is). Or maybe that doesn't count either. What about the Eye Test? or "small sample size"?

[Hugh2]

There should be a new law. You do not get to criticize without offering your own solution, or outline what you would have done. Otherwise your opinions are just complaints and not critique.

 

Here it’s easy I could do it. Bloom bad, bloom no pitching good, bloom no guy home runs, people hurt bloom bad don’t get good guys.

 

Talk is cheap.