Fire Bloom .

[moonslav59]

Two corrections, Max:

 

-The contract extension started in 2021, so it's only in the second year.

-The average is $30.42, not $36.5.

 

Isn't the $30.4M number due to differed money?

[jad]

Sorry jad. A SeaDogs game would be great, but the trip would probably cost me two grand Canadian. And my wife has that money and several thousand more earmarked for a kitchen upgrade.

 

But then, why spend all that money to get the kitchen done right, when you could invest it in a carpentry-apprentice-prospect program for much less and then get it done much cheaper down the road?

[Bellhorn04]

Isn't the $30.4M number due to differed money?

 

No. 365/12 = 30.42

 

There were reports about the deferred money bringing down the AAV, but they were incorrect - there was no adjustment, apparently because the interest rates at the time were so low.

[moonslav59]

No. 365/12 = 30.42

 

There were reports about the deferred money bringing down the AAV, but they were incorrect - there was no adjustment, apparently because the interest rates at the time were so low.

 

Thanks for the clarification.

 

I'd have given Betts that. (I think I even suggested $400M/14 to bring down the AAV,) but I can certainly see why it would not have been a good idea.

 

Dugo at 5 years

Wong and Downs as prospect hopefuls

$30M x 12 years to spend elsewhere

[Bellhorn04]

Thanks for the clarification.

 

I'd have given Betts that. (I think I even suggested $400M/14 to bring down the AAV,) but I can certainly see why it would not have been a good idea.

 

Dugo at 5 years

Wong and Downs as prospect hopefuls

$30M x 12 years to spend elsewhere

 

I can't help thinking if the Sox FO thought 365/12 with deferred money would do it, he'd still be with us.

[Hugh2]

I can't help thinking if the Sox FO thought 365/12 with deferred money would do it, he'd still be with us.

 

I think of Betts was offered that money pre-Covid he would have rejected it. I think Betts was dead set in going to FA, but if he stayed here throughout the pandemic he may have came to the table with the Sox. Unfortunately we will never know for certain.

[moonslav59]

I can't help thinking if the Sox FO thought 365/12 with deferred money would do it, he'd still be with us.

 

Agreed. I think they did as they always do. The offer what they think a player is worth and don't budge much.

[Hugh2]

Your a legend in your own mind!

 

You don’t trade a potential All-Star prospect at any cost!

 

You want pitching , develop it within your own Organization!

 

It’s time to drain the Redsox minor league developmental system and rid the organization of the Romero’s Crockett!s Abraham’s Wrens and any other swinging d!ck not carrying his weight!

 

Those are the Facts b!tches and the facts are undisputed

 

Wrong! Top prospects get traded for premium players all the time. We traded away the #1 prospect in all of baseball for Chris Sale.

 

And if that’s your philosophy and you can’t develop pitching then guess what? You don’t have any pitching and you lose. When is the last time the Sox developed a TOTRS? It’s been over a decade. That’s a great strategy, but until you get there and you currently don’t have an ace in the pipeline your only options are FA or the trade market.

 

I’m the biggest prospect homer in here, I’d love to retain Mayer and think we likely do, but you won’t see me crying about it if he goes for a young cost controller ACE.

[moonslav59]

I think of Betts was offered that money pre-Covid he would have rejected it. I think Betts was dead set in going to FA, but if he stayed here throughout the pandemic he may have came to the table with the Sox. Unfortunately we will never know for certain.

 

Maybe. Sounds about right.

 

I know it's such a major point in Sox history to lose someone like Betts, but I do think the writing was on the wall.

 

I think the pandemic did influence the contract he ended up signing. He'd probably have gotten $400M/12 had there not been one.

 

He was never going to get near that from BOS. That should be totally viewed as JH's choice, not the GM.

[moonslav59]

Wrong! Top prospects get traded for premium players all the time. We traded away the #1 prospect in all of baseball for Chris Sale.

 

And if that’s your philosophy and you can’t develop pitching then guess what? You don’t have any pitching and you lose. When is the last time the Sox developed a TOTRS? It’s been over a decade. That’s a great strategy, but until you get there and you currently don’t have an ace in the pipeline your only options are FA or the trade market.

 

I’m the biggest prospect homer in here, I’d love to retain Mayer and think we likely do, but you won’t see me crying about it if he goes for a young cost controller ACE.

 

His solution is fix the farm. Like- snap your fingers, and it's done. Even if we could do it, like he says, it would be years before we see any results.

 

There is a reason he's the only guy I have on ignore, right now.

[Hugh2]

His solution is fix the farm. Like- snap your fingers, and it's done. Even if we could do it, like he says, it would be years before we see any results.

 

There is a reason he's the only guy I have on ignore, right now.

 

It takes several years to fix the farm assuming you hit in the draft, even teams who draft well don’t hit sometimes.

[moonslav59]

It takes several years to fix the farm assuming you hit in the draft, even teams who draft well don’t hit sometimes.

 

Exactly, and you can’t just hire the best scouts and player development people away from other teams.

[jacksonianmarch]

I am of the belief that the upper level management didn't let Bloom do what he wanted to do. If you aren't going to let your GM make deals for the long term, then why get a builder in the first place. Your farm isnt where it can be utilized entirely to fill holes or make major deals for now talent. You're inbetween right now and having had the opportunity to deal off Xander, Eo, Wacha, JD and others would have hastened the return to glory

[Bellhorn04]

I am of the belief that the upper level management didn't let Bloom do what he wanted to do. If you aren't going to let your GM make deals for the long term, then why get a builder in the first place. Your farm isnt where it can be utilized entirely to fill holes or make major deals for now talent. You're inbetween right now and having had the opportunity to deal off Xander, Eo, Wacha, JD and others would have hastened the return to glory

 

I disagree. I don't think Bloom was lying when he explained in detail the thought process behind the deadline moves. He knew the team still had an outside shot this year, especially thinking that Sale would be back at the time, and that you can't just throw that away.

 

Your belief that Bloom wanted to burn it to the ground is pure personal speculation.

[dgalehouse]

1-6-9

 

1 game from 500

 

6 games in the L column from getting out of last place in the Div.

 

9 games back in the L column for last Wild Card spot.

 

Get to 500, and let’s play spoiler, and let’s see what Casas can do.

 

Sox are winning, but not gaining any ground. Need to build some momentum from the beat down of the Rangers. The next two series should show if there is still any hope of a wild card this year. As always, I am still a diehard.

[notin]

Your a legend in your own mind!

 

You don’t trade a potential All-Star prospect at any cost!

 

You want pitching , develop it within your own Organization!

 

It’s time to drain the Redsox minor league developmental system and rid the organization of the Romero’s Crockett!s Abraham’s Wrens and any other swinging d!ck not carrying his weight!

 

Those are the Facts b!tches and the facts are undisputed

 

 

So the Yankees were wrong for trading three time consensus top 5 prospect Jesus Montero?

 

Gawd we get such stupid trolls…

[moonslav59]

I am of the belief that the upper level management didn't let Bloom do what he wanted to do. If you aren't going to let your GM make deals for the long term, then why get a builder in the first place. Your farm isnt where it can be utilized entirely to fill holes or make major deals for now talent. You're inbetween right now and having had the opportunity to deal off Xander, Eo, Wacha, JD and others would have hastened the return to glory

 

Well, Bogey had a no trade clause, but if Bloom was having a firesale, I think Bogey might have agreed to be traded- maybe naming a few teams.

 

I would have preferred trading all FAs to be and maybe even a couple other players- not part of the longer term plan- away at the deadline.

 

That b eing said, I think he did okay at the deadline.

 

He improved our long term catcher situation.

Adding Pham and Hosmer on the cheap adds to our organizational depth.

I like the prospects we got, especially Enmanuel Valdez (2B/DH), Wilyer Abreu (OF and 102 BBs, this year) and maybe Max Ferguson (utility).

The only longer term player he gave up was Groome, who seemed to be going nowhere, quickly.

 

If he gets a QO pick for Bogey, it's not as good as a trade, but again, the no trade clause.

 

I do agree that Bloom would have done more had the media and fans not been pressuring him and upper management to "not give up."

[moonslav59]

I disagree. I don't think Bloom was lying when he explained in detail the thought process behind the deadline moves. He knew the team still had an outside shot this year, especially thinking that Sale would be back at the time, and that you can't just throw that away.

 

Your belief that Bloom wanted to burn it to the ground is pure personal speculation.

 

Yes, speculation, but the words he said after the deadline could easily be viewed as what he had to say.

[moonslav59]

Sox are winning, but not gaining any ground. Need to build some momentum from the beat down of the Rangers. The next two series should show if there is still any hope of a wild card this year. As always, I am still a diehard.

 

Keep winning, and the rest will take care of itself, due to someone having to lose, everytime TOR plays BAL, BAL play TBR and TBR plays TOR.

 

Just win, baby!

[jacksonianmarch]

Well, Bogey had a no trade clause, but if Bloom was having a firesale, I think Bogey might have agreed to be traded- maybe naming a few teams.

 

I would have preferred trading all FAs to be and maybe even a couple other players- not part of the longer term plan- away at the deadline.

 

That b eing said, I think he did okay at the deadline.

 

He improved our long term catcher situation.

Adding Pham and Hosmer on the cheap adds to our organizational depth.

I like the prospects we got, especially Enmanuel Valdez (2B/DH), Wilyer Abreu (OF and 102 BBs, this year) and maybe Max Ferguson (utility).

The only longer term player he gave up was Groome, who seemed to be going nowhere, quickly.

 

If he gets a QO pick for Bogey, it's not as good as a trade, but again, the no trade clause.

 

I do agree that Bloom would have done more had the media and fans not been pressuring him and upper management to "not give up."

 

At the time, the sox were floundering and dropped way behind in the race. I think at the time, yes, you'd have lost fans, but nothing brings fans back like winning baseball. And the way the sox approached the deadline, it was clear they didn't believe in the team

[moonslav59]

At the time, the sox were floundering and dropped way behind in the race. I think at the time, yes, you'd have lost fans, but nothing brings fans back like winning baseball. And the way the sox approached the deadline, it was clear they didn't believe in the team

 

I agree.

 

The Vaz + Diekman trades were all about the future without alarming too many fans. McGuire's subsequent play has quieted them, for now.

 

The Pham and Hosmer deals cost us next to nothing, but they also added to the 2023 plan, as well.

 

Had the traded Bogey, JD + Cash, Strahm and Wacha, they'd have gotten some much nicer future pieces AND got under the tax line, so we could start with year one in 2023. To me, that was the biggest part of not trading at least a couple more guys.

 

That being said, it has made watching the 2022 Sox more fun than it would have been, otherwise.

[Old Red]

Keep winning, and the rest will take care of itself, due to someone having to lose, everytime TOR plays BAL, BAL play TBR and TBR plays TOR.

 

Just win, baby!

 

2-5-10

 

2 games under 500

 

5 games back in the L column for last place in the Div.

 

10 games back in the L column for last Wild Card spot.

 

Just can’t get back to 500, or beat the Div teams. 4 game sweep of Texas was nice, but back to reality we go, and most likely stay there the rest of the season. Pretty pathetic.

Edited September 6, 2022 by Old Red

[Bellhorn04]

Yes, speculation, but the words he said after the deadline could easily be viewed as what he had to say.

 

It was a pretty elaborate lie if that's what it was.

 

Do you suspect Bloom was ordered by ownership not to have a fire sale?

[Bellhorn04]

If they had the full-on fire sale, the extension with Kike wouldn't have happened.

[jacksonianmarch]

If they had the full-on fire sale, the extension with Kike wouldn't have happened.

 

You don't let a one year potential extension get in the way of org needs. With Kike in the fold this year, you're in last place. Who is to say he is healthy next year as well.

 

Heck, maybe it wouldn't have mattered. Adding the extra year gives Kike a chance to be more valuable next year and get a better return

[Hugh2]

If they had the full-on fire sale, the extension with Kike wouldn't have happened.

 

I think that depends on what you define as "full on fire sale" If they traded Bogey/JDM/Eovaldi.....well those are all guys hitting the open market always this offseason. Doesn't change the holes they need to plug up.

[Hugh2]

Having a slight overpay for one year of Kike is fine too, it gives them the opportunity to have that money coming off the books next offseason as well. So if they punt the Devers extension it might give them a chance to get under the Luxury tax....if they so choose to do so.

[Bellhorn04]

You don't let a one year potential extension get in the way of org needs. With Kike in the fold this year, you're in last place. Who is to say he is healthy next year as well.

 

Heck, maybe it wouldn't have mattered. Adding the extra year gives Kike a chance to be more valuable next year and get a better return

 

Not having a fire sale was "largely" for PR purposes, I don't disagree with that.

 

But hell, a lot of running a baseball team is for PR purposes. The fans pay the bills.

[Bellhorn04]

I think that depends on what you define as "full on fire sale" If they traded Bogey/JDM/Eovaldi.....well those are all guys hitting the open market always this offseason. Doesn't change the holes they need to plug up.

 

A full on fire sale would have been trading those three plus Wacha, Hill, Kike, everything that wasn't nailed down. For some madmen it also would have been trading Devers...

[Hugh2]

A full on fire sale would have been trading those three plus Wacha, Hill, Kike, everything that wasn't nailed down. For some madmen it also would have been trading Devers...

 

I mean, I'm not pro trading Devers....but if you're NOT going to resign him this deadline or last offseason would have been the year to do it. Even really great players aren't going to return as much if you're only getting 1 or a 1/2 a year of control. E.G. Mookie Betts trade.