Fire Bloom .

[moonslav59]

Some of those crybaby fans shell out big bucks to go to Fenway, and to me they have more of a right to do so then those who don’t. I myself don’t mind being called a crybaby fan.

 

It seemed to me, some posters took issue with that term, and it was harsh.

 

The thing is, you have even said, if we aren't going to extend Bogey, we should have traded him, and I agree, but when we do make a deal like the Betts one, the trade will be very unlikely one that pleases most fans-not just the "crybaby" ones. Most will likely take years to judge, properly, but the instant feeling will be anger or disgust.

 

I felt angry when we traded Betts. Most did.

 

Now, I see the deal was forced and necessary and don't think we could have done a significantly better deal. I remember, at the time, thinking I'd rather have Maeda than Downs & Wong or Graterol, and for a short while, that did look like a better deal, but I'm liking more and more of Wong with each passing day. 5 years of Dugo for a 60 game lost season of Betts seems fine, now. It's also helped me see the virtue in trading stars about to bolt going forward.

 

[harmony]

The Sox have the option on Paxton, not the other way around.

 

I don't think they signed him for 2022, in the first place. The deal was for 2023 & 2024. I'm 99% sure the Sox take the $13M x2 option, and Paxton is with the Sox going forward.

From Tuesday's MLB Trade Rumors chat with columnist Steve Adams:

James Paxton

12:36 If Boston declines the (2) $13M options of Paxton, any chance he’ll exercise his $4M player option or will he test free agency?

Steve Adams

12:36 I can't see anyone giving Paxton more than $4MM guaranteed, but I suppose maybe he'll decline it if he A) Just wants a change of scenery and Wants a contract that has a larger incentives structure.

12:37 There is zero chance the Red Sox pick up their options by the way. I saw some recent speculation on that among Boston beat writers, but it is just so far outside the realm of possibility, to me.

https://www.jotcast.com/chat/chat-with-mlbtrs-steve-adams-9-6-22-13884.html

[moonslav59]

I’m willing to bet they have zero influence.

 

I might be wrong, but I think most people capable of getting a job as MLB GM think they know more about building an MLB team than any fan.

 

And in most cases, they’re probably right…

 

Certainly a Sox GM worries about losing viewership and attendance revenue. Isn't that worrying about fan reaction to harsh rebuild moves?

 

It seemed like there was quite an uproar over just dumping Vaz and not trading for the next Schwarber.

[moonslav59]

From Tuesday's MLB Trade Rumors chat with columnist Steve Adams:

 

https://www.jotcast.com/chat/chat-with-mlbtrs-steve-adams-9-6-22-13884.html

 

Did the Sox really think seeing him for 2 months in 2022 was going to convince them to keep or not keep him at $26M/2?

 

I'm 99% sure they take the options, despite not seeing one IP from Paxton. The injury he sustained is not long term.

[Old Red]

It seemed to me, some posters took issue with that term, and it was harsh.

 

The thing is, you have even said, if we aren't going to extend Bogey, we should have traded him, and I agree, but when we do make a deal like the Betts one, the trade will be very unlikely one that pleases most fans-not just the "crybaby" ones. Most will likely take years to judge, properly, but the instant feeling will be anger or disgust.

 

I felt angry when we traded Betts. Most did.

 

Now, I see the deal was forced and necessary and don't think we could have done a significantly better deal. I remember, at the time, thinking I'd rather have Maeda than Downs & Wong or Graterol, and for a short while, that did look like a better deal, but I'm liking more and more of Wong with each passing day. 5 years of Dugo for a 60 game lost season of Betts seems fine, now. It's also helped me see the virtue in trading stars about to bolt going forward.

 

At the time I said to trade Bogey I wasn’t aware that his no trade had kicked in, but I feel the same way, and that goes for Raffy too. I don’t know what Bogey has, or will ask for, but if the last lowball offer to Bogey is the only one then JH will get crucified. Same with Raffy. If Wong turns out then the trade won’t look as bad as it did.

[Old Red]

I’m willing to bet they have zero influence.

 

I might be wrong, but I think most people capable of getting a job as MLB GM think they know more about building an MLB team than any fan.

 

And in most cases, they’re probably right…

 

John Henry’s rabbit ears would tell you that you are wrong.

[harmony]

Did the Sox really think seeing him for 2 months in 2022 was going to convince them to keep or not keep him at $26M/2?

 

I'm 99% sure they take the options, despite not seeing one IP from Paxton. The injury he sustained is not long term.

This poster is among the many Seattle fans of James Paxton but the soon-to-be 34-year-old lefthander has tossed only 21.2 MLB innings since 2019.

 

2019!

 

We wish Paxton the best in life after baseball.

Edited September 6, 2022 by harmony

[moonslav59]

At the time I said to trade Bogey I wasn’t aware that his no trade had kicked in, but I feel the same way, and that goes for Raffy too. I don’t know what Bogey has, or will ask for, but if the last lowball offer to Bogey is the only one then JH will get crucified. Same with Raffy. If Wong turns out then the trade won’t look as bad as it did.

 

To me, the 3 years Dugo gave us was worth the wasted 2020 season. I doubt Betts and a healthy Sale & ERod would have won us a ring in '18.

 

Wong is gravy.

[Old Red]

The diehards are still watching and going. The fair weather types are behaving as always…

 

Actual attendance is down, and so is NESN ratings.

[Bobe2]

To me, the 3 years Dugo gave us was worth the wasted 2020 season. I doubt Betts and a healthy Sale & ERod would have won us a ring in '18.

 

Wong is gravy.

 

Where you been, they did

[Bellhorn04]

Red Sox fans will always cherish fond memories of the World Series titles but since the start of the 2020 season the Tampa Bay Rays have the second-best cumulative regular-season record (behind the Dodgers) while the Red Sox in that period are in the bottom half among the 30 MLB teams.

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2022&month=0&season1=2020&ind=0&team=0,ts&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=2020-01-01&enddate=2022-12-31&sort=2,d

 

Yes, I know very well, some people are all about recency.

 

We did manage to knock them out of the playoffs last year, though...

[harmony]

Yes, I know very well, some people are all about recency.

 

We did manage to knock them out of the playoffs last year, though...

Another memory that should warm Red Sox fans during the chill of mid-October this year.

[Bellhorn04]

This poster is among the many Seattle fans of James Paxton but the soon-to-be 33-year-old lefthander has tossed only 21.2 MLB innings since 2019.

 

2019!

 

We wish Paxton the best in life after baseball.

 

Same here. But he's still young enough not to totally write off yet.

[Bellhorn04]

Another memory that should warm Red Sox fans during the chill of mid-October this year.

 

Today will be a memory tomorrow.

[moonslav59]

Where you been, they did

 

It wouldnt let me edit '18 to '20.

[moonslav59]

Same here. But he's still young enough not to totally write off yet.

 

He's still got 1,000 inning on that arm!

 

LOL

 

[notin]

Certainly a Sox GM worries about losing viewership and attendance revenue. Isn't that worrying about fan reaction to harsh rebuild moves?

 

It seemed like there was quite an uproar over just dumping Vaz and not trading for the next Schwarber.

 

Sure they worry about big picture finances. But they all probably think they know more about making a competitive team. And they all probably take into account the long term picture with long term deals, unlike fans who often espouse the credo “worry about next year next year,” which, while it will never happen, is fine for fans to say….

[notin]

Today will be a memory tomorrow.

 

Depends on how much you drink…

[notin]

Another memory that should warm Red Sox fans during the chill of mid-October this year.

 

Wow. The Mariners are poised to make the postseason for the first time since the Astros played in Enron Field, and the trash talk has already commenced…

[harmony]

He's still got 1,000 inning on that arm!

 

LOL

 

James Paxton has only 754.2 MLB innings on his arm as the lefthander approaches his 34th birthday in November:

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/paxtoja01.shtml

[harmony]

Wow. The Mariners are poised to make the postseason for the first time since the Astros played in Enron Field, and the trash talk has already commenced…

The same Seattle Mariners who this season lost six of seven games with the Red Sox.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Are fans not standing for it what makes them crybabies in others' eyes?

 

Fans will still go to games, but if the product on the field sucks, we have every right to boo, leave early, and certainly call talkshows to whine, and type complaints to online reports, articles and on forums. Writers, columnists and talking heads, in turn, echo the general feelings of the fanbase, and generate their own gripes if the team they're covering blows.

 

Posters here realize that we're not average fans. The average Sox fan doesn't dissect the Mookie trade every month for the past three years, but still views it as a crime against Red Sox Nation. The average fan just sees that he's still great, LA's in first again, and Boston is dead last again.

 

The average fan may still take the family to an annual game at Fenway, but nobody except a diehard watches NESN when the Red Sox are in the cellar in September. Even some of us tune out -- or just go to sleep -- half-way through bad games.

[sk7326]

The same Seattle Mariners who this season lost six of seven games with the Red Sox.

 

To be able to watch some October baseball and have a budding superstar seemingly sent from the future ... that seems nice.

[sk7326]

Not totally. Too many cheap teams don't trade away stars at the right time. They also don't get the returns the Rays seem to get or know precisely when the time is right.

 

Nobody doubts they are well run - but if they were also cheap and not well run, the ownership that wanted to timeshare them with Montreal wouldn't care.

[Bobe2]

Not totally. Too many cheap teams don't trade away stars at the right time. They also don't get the returns the Rays seem to get or know precisely when the time is right.

 

That’s their problem they don’t care about winning, just payroll, instead of paying their players and keeping a team together and trying to win a championship they just trade them, and hope to stay status quo, under the ray way David Ortiz would never have been a hall of famer at least not as a Red Sox

[notin]

That’s their problem they don’t care about winning, just payroll, instead of paying their players and keeping a team together and trying to win a championship they just trade them, and hope to stay status quo, under the ray way David Ortiz would never have been a hall of famer at least not as a Red Sox

 

If the Rays don’t care about winning, they certainly hide their apathy well. They’ve been to the World Series as many times as the Red Sox in the past 14 years…

[Bobe2]

If the Rays don’t care about winning, they certainly hide their apathy well. They’ve been to the World Series as many times as the Red Sox in the past 14 years…

 

0 wins to 4 wins, in the big one no body remembers who finished second, and every time they were there did they try to improve the next year, no they just keep plugging along, never a champion. With their small payroll they could have added top notch players during one of those runs to win a title but they didn’t, so winning wasn’t the most important thing payroll was

Edited September 6, 2022 by Bobe2

[Old Red]

If the Rays don’t care about winning, they certainly hide their apathy well. They’ve been to the World Series as many times as the Red Sox in the past 14 years…

 

How come you stoped at 14, and didn’t go 15 years?

[moonslav59]

That’s their problem they don’t care about winning, just payroll, instead of paying their players and keeping a team together and trying to win a championship they just trade them, and hope to stay status quo, under the ray way David Ortiz would never have been a hall of famer at least not as a Red Sox

 

They care about winning. It’s obvious.

 

The budget prevents rings but trading stars at just the right time is part of why they win more consistently than big spending Boston.

[Hugh2]

You kind of have to care about payroll when you don’t have the same money coming in from ticket sales.

 

If anything, the rays way of doing business shows they do care about winning, because they’re are efficient as one can be with what they have to work with.