Fire Bloom .

[Hugh2]

FWIW some of ya’ll do, and I respect that.

[jad]

There should be a new law. You do not get to criticize without offering your own solution, or outline what you would have done. Otherwise your opinions are just complaints and not critique.

 

Here it’s easy I could do it. Bloom bad, bloom no pitching good, bloom no guy home runs, people hurt bloom bad don’t get good guys.

 

Talk is cheap.

 

That is a specious argument: it's like insisting that anyone who criticizes, say, a movie MUST indicate in detail how the script, camera-work, acting could be improved. Or, say, anyone who demands 'there ought to be a law' should be required to explain in detail how that law would be enforced.

[Hugh2]

That is a specious argument: it's like insisting that anyone who criticizes, say, a movie MUST indicate in detail how the script, camera-work, acting could be improved. Or, say, anyone who demands 'there ought to be a law' should be required to explain in detail how that law would be enforced.

 

It’s called hyperbole.

[notin]

There should be a new law. You do not get to criticize without offering your own solution, or outline what you would have done. Otherwise your opinions are just complaints and not critique.

 

Here it’s easy I could do it. Bloom bad, bloom no pitching good, bloom no guy home runs, people hurt bloom bad don’t get good guys.

 

Talk is cheap.

 

Complaints and critique are acceptable. But so are follow up questions to them…

[Bellhorn04]

There should be a new law. You do not get to criticize without offering your own solution, or outline what you would have done. Otherwise your opinions are just complaints and not critique.

 

Here it’s easy I could do it. Bloom bad, bloom no pitching good, bloom no guy home runs, people hurt bloom bad don’t get good guys.

 

Talk is cheap.

 

If I could jump in the Way Back Machine:

 

-Sign Gausman, McHugh, D. Robertson.

-Cancel Renfroe trade, Paxton signing, Hill signing, Diekman signing.

 

That would increase the payroll a bit is all.

[jad]

It’s called hyperbole.

 

Yup. Thus 'specious'; it looks less vacuous than it is.

[Hugh2]

If I could jump in the Way Back Machine:

 

-Sign Gausman, McHugh, D. Robertson.

-Cancel Renfroe trade, Paxton signing, Hill signing, Diekman signing.

 

That would increase the payroll a bit is all.

 

If I could jump in a time machine with the power of knowing the future you better believe I’m playing the stock market. Then I’m buying the Red Sox and taking a super hands on approach to who we draft and who we sign.

 

Super team after super team after super team

[Bellhorn04]

If I could jump in a time machine with the power of knowing the future you better believe I’m playing the stock market. Then I’m buying the Red Sox and taking a super hands on approach to who we draft and who we sign.

 

Super team after super team after super team

 

Oh yeah. Now I will say that I did want to sign Gausman, and McHugh not Diekman.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

There should be a new law. You do not get to criticize without offering your own solution, or outline what you would have done. Otherwise your opinions are just complaints and not critique.

 

Here it’s easy I could do it. Bloom bad, bloom no pitching good, bloom no guy home runs, people hurt bloom bad don’t get good guys.

 

Talk is cheap.

 

Ok (the following is based on both small sample and too large sample sizw): we should hire that bullpen cop who raised his hands when Papi hit the grand slam to ticket Franchy anytime he tries to get near first base with a glove ever again. For the next month, at least, it is now a law that only Triston Casas is allowed to catch anything, including tasty pregame rays, on the right side corner...

[Hugh2]

Or maybe I’ll just buy the Yankees and make all the wrong moves

[jad]

Or maybe I’ll just buy the Yankees and make all the wrong moves

 

Do it! Since Bellh and 5GG never collected on their SeaDogs tix, I'll treat you to front row seats next year if you do and IF (and only if) the RS are ahead of them in the standings as a result. (You pay for the beer.)

[Hugh2]

Do it! Since Bellh and 5GG never collected on their SeaDogs tix, I'll treat you to front row seats next year if you do and IF (and only if) the RS are ahead of them in the standings as a result. (You pay for the beer.)

 

Deal

 

I’ve always wanted to check out a sea dogs game in Portland. I try to see them as often as I can when lever they come to Hartford.

[Bellhorn04]

Do it! Since Bellh and 5GG never collected on their SeaDogs tix, I'll treat you to front row seats next year if you do and IF (and only if) the RS are ahead of them in the standings as a result. (You pay for the beer.)

 

Sorry jad. A SeaDogs game would be great, but the trip would probably cost me two grand Canadian. And my wife has that money and several thousand more earmarked for a kitchen upgrade.

[moonslav59]

The anti-Bogaerts crowd mystifies me, as here, supporting the myth of a Bogaerts "decline." He's leading the league in hitting. (Or does that stat not count!). OK; he's better than his career WAR (whatever that is). Or maybe that doesn't count either. What about the Eye Test? or "small sample size"?

 

Fair point on Bogey, and I did not intend to sound "anti-Bogey." I want him back, but I do think his cost will prohibit us from improving at all the areas we need to, this winter.

 

I chose OPS as my comp stat, because our offense has been so bad.

 

Yes, Bogey's D has lifted his WAR above last year, and that has had real value, but BA? Really? That is reaching. His rbi total is woefully lower, due in part to less homers, but also with too many of those BA hits coming when men are not in scoring position, especially with 2 outs or when it counted most:

.317 BA

.306 RISP

.173 RISP, 2 outs

.299 Late & Close

.284 High Leverage

 

Overall, I'd say he declined on offense but was a net plus overall- same with Devers.

 

[moonslav59]

If I could jump in the Way Back Machine:

 

-Sign Gausman, McHugh, D. Robertson.

-Cancel Renfroe trade, Paxton signing, Hill signing, Diekman signing.

 

That would increase the payroll a bit is all.

 

This is one reason why offering one's plan when criticizing would be the fair thing to do. It's easy to go back in hindsight, and say he could have done this or that, but what did you really want back then?

 

I'll be honest, I wanted Baez, McHugh and Suzuki and I think a SP'er (via trade?) I wasn't alone on Suzuki. Others wanted Rodon, Gausman, Correa, Semien or Freeman to take up most of the winter spending budget. Many would have been better than Story, for sure, but I'm not really sure the checkbook was open when they signed.

[notin]

Fair point on Bogey, and I did not intend to sound "anti-Bogey." I want him back, but I do think his cost will prohibit us from improving at all the areas we need to, this winter.

 

I chose OPS as my comp stat, because our offense has been so bad.

 

Yes, Bogey's D has lifted his WAR above last year, and that has had real value, but BA? Really? That is reaching. His rbi total is woefully lower, due in part to less homers, but also with too many of those BA hits coming when men are not in scoring position, especially with 2 outs or when it counted most:

.317 BA

.306 RISP

.173 RISP, 2 outs

.299 Late & Close

.284 High Leverage

 

Overall, I'd say he declined on offense but was a net plus overall- same with Devers.

 

 

 

I want Bogaerts back, but I struggle to think it’s going to happen. I just don’t see the Sox spending $80mill AAV on 3 infielders, even if the 4th one is min wage…

[Bellhorn04]

Fair point on Bogey, and I did not intend to sound "anti-Bogey." I want him back, but I do think his cost will prohibit us from improving at all the areas we need to, this winter.

 

I chose OPS as my comp stat, because our offense has been so bad.

 

Yes, Bogey's D has lifted his WAR above last year, and that has had real value, but BA? Really? That is reaching. His rbi total is woefully lower, due in part to less homers, but also with too many of those BA hits coming when men are not in scoring position, especially with 2 outs or when it counted most:

.317 BA

.306 RISP

.173 RISP, 2 outs

.299 Late & Close

.284 High Leverage

 

Overall, I'd say he declined on offense but was a net plus overall- same with Devers.

 

 

Bogey and Devers both have a higher OPS+ than 2021, because offense has declined across baseball this year.

 

I would prefer to see OPS+ comparisons.

[Maxbialystock]

The anti-Bogaerts crowd mystifies me, as here, supporting the myth of a Bogaerts "decline." He's leading the league in hitting. (Or does that stat not count!). OK; he's better than his career WAR (whatever that is). Or maybe that doesn't count either. What about the Eye Test? or "small sample size"?

 

Complete agree Bogey has lost little if anything. His defense has in fact improved and his WAR to date is 5.3--only 6.3 in 2019 was better. That 5.3 WAR is the 9th best in MLB right now and the highest among MLB shortstops.

 

The problem is he turns 30 October 1 and wants at least 5 more years and probably 7 with a bump-up in salary--all of which would of course be guaranteed. My guess is his agent is asking for $25M x 7 = $175M.

 

Remember Mookie Betts? His WAR right now is 6.2, 4th best in MLB, and he's on a 12 year, $365M guaranteed contract--and he's the same age as Bogey--both were born in October, 1992.

[moonslav59]

Bogey and Devers both have a higher OPS+ than 2021, because offense has declined across baseball this year.

 

I would prefer to see OPS+ comparisons.

 

Another good point, however, even if you move Devers and Bogey to the plus side of returning vets improving, staying the same or declining, the scoresheet is still wildly skewing towards many more decline than improvements- hitting and pitching.

 

The decline of the 2022 Sox was way more driven by returning vets than the moves Bloom made since last season. Blooms winter and in-season moves have been a net plus, despite the JBJ trade, and he did it while also building the farm up (on paper, anyway.)

 

Now, if you want to count not bringing back players from last year who were FAs, that's a different narrative, because of budget constraints, but even then, for every Schwarber and Iggy, there are three Marwins, Richards, Andrieses, Santanas and on and on...

 

[Maxbialystock]

Bogey and Devers both have a higher OPS+ than 2021, because offense has declined across baseball this year.

 

I would prefer to see OPS+ comparisons.

 

The Sox let Mookie Betts, whose average WAR over five seasons was a fantastic 8, go to the Dodgers, who are now paying Mookie $365M for 12 years, guaranteed.

 

The problem with Bogey is not that he isn't worth more than the $22M he is currently getting, it's that he wants more and he probably wants 7 years of more, say $25M-$30M per year for 7 years.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I want Bogaerts back, but I struggle to think it’s going to happen. I just don’t see the Sox spending $80mill AAV on 3 infielders, even if the 4th one is min wage…

 

Devers 30, Story 25, Bogey 25 (or Swanson 25). Either way, the latter might happen... unless they really think Mayer is a year or two away, then maybe Iglesias returns at 10 for two (and to mentor the kid, and join the coaching staff).

 

The way Bloom and Kennedy are already talking about spending this offseason -- responding to media pressure, which will only increase -- doesn't it seem like some legit splash names, plural, are inevitable? And I definitely include Devers as one of those.

 

I just don't see another half-dozen versatile, utility types or rehabbing pitchers coming this winter... or Bloom trading really good prospects for MLB regulars. It makes sense if they're going to be over the tax threshold to just spend money.

 

Early prediction (subject to change, depending on cost fluctuations due to stretch run/postseason performances): one big name starting pitcher, and one "professional" hitter/outfielder...

 

... although many of us here know there's a need for both Bassitt and Manaea for a little more than just one Rodon, and both Brantley and Haniger in the line-up.

[Maxbialystock]

More on Mookie. In 5+ seasons with the Sox his cumulative WAR was 42, for which he was paid $33M, less that $1M/WAR

 

In his first three seasons of that 12 years, $365M guaranteed contract ($36.5M/year), his cumulative WAR is 14, for which the Dodgers are paying him 36.5 x 3 =$110M or roughly $8/WAR.

 

Mookie's the same age as Bogey and turns 30 in October, so that 12 years lasts until he's around 38 or 39 years old.

[Bellhorn04]

More on Mookie. In 5+ seasons with the Sox his cumulative WAR was 42, for which he was paid $33M, less that $1M/WAR

 

In his first three seasons of that 12 years, $365M guaranteed contract ($36.5M/year), his cumulative WAR is 14, for which the Dodgers are paying him 36.5 x 3 =$110M or roughly $8/WAR.

 

Two corrections, Max:

 

-The contract extension started in 2021, so it's only in the second year.

-The average is $30.42, not $36.5.

[notin]

Devers 30, Story 25, Bogey 25 (or Swanson 25). Either way, the latter might happen... unless they really think Mayer is a year or two away, then maybe Iglesias returns at 10 for two (and to mentor the kid, and join the coaching staff).

 

The way Bloom and Kennedy are already talking about spending this offseason -- responding to media pressure, which will only increase -- doesn't it seem like some legit splash names, plural, are inevitable? And I definitely include Devers as one of those.

 

I just don't see another half-dozen versatile, utility types or rehabbing pitchers coming this winter... or Bloom trading really good prospects for MLB regulars. It makes sense if they're going to be over the tax threshold to just spend money.

 

Early prediction (subject to change, depending on cost fluctuations due to stretch run/postseason performances): one big name starting pitcher, and one "professional" hitter/outfielder...

 

... although many of us here know there's a need for both Bassitt and Manaea for a little more than just one Rodon, and both Brantley and Haniger in the line-up.

 

 

I’m ok with Bassitt. I’m ok with Manaea. And even Bradley to an extent.

 

But please no Rodon or Haniger. Haven’t we had enough injury trouble this year?

[harmony]

I’m ok with Bassitt. I’m ok with Manaea. And even Bradley to an extent.

 

But please no Rodon or Haniger. Haven’t we had enough injury trouble this year?

A Seattle forum discusses Mitch Haniger's pending free agency:

 

https://www.marinertalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7177

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

JD's massive decline, Sale getting re-injured, injuries to the starting staff and Casas going on the IL in WOO cannot be blamed on Bloom. Imho, his biggest error was obviously trading Renfro for JBJ. And as far as that Renfro trade blunder, I still believe Cora may have whispered in Bloom's ear to get JBJ back to Boston.

And as far as the Betts' trade is concerned; the SOX(JH) weren't going to pay Betts what he and his agent wanted, so for two months w/o Betts the SOX picked up a .290BA OF and, perhaps, their future starting catcher. I have no idea what the future holds for Downs.

Edited September 5, 2022 by SPLENDIDSPLINTER

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Btw, I believe that the SOX FO will re-sign Bogey and extend Devers. Just a gut feeling.

[MADSTORK]

Wow….so insightful. FWIW I’m talking about trading Mayer for #1 starter ace. Last time we did that we gave up TWO prospects Mayers caliber plus more.

 

It’s so funny how people can criticize the FO but yet their concept of how much a FA should be paid, or what we should pay in a trade is so lopsided and devoid of any realization that there are other GMs on the other side of a deal and other teams bidding on players. Or they think we can trade a large number of garbage prospects for a premium player, like would you do that? Would you take 10 garbage prospects for Rafael Devers?

 

Then there’s the other group who have the mantra of “well it’s not my money” or say they’re just prospect and would gladly trade the entire farm for a rental.

 

The biggest weakness on this last place team is pitching. They desperately need pitching. So let’s hear your genius plan to strengthen the pitching staff.

 

Your a legend in your own mind!

 

You don’t trade a potential All-Star prospect at any cost!

 

You want pitching , develop it within your own Organization!

 

It’s time to drain the Redsox minor league developmental system and rid the organization of the Romero’s Crockett!s Abraham’s Wrens and any other swinging d!ck not carrying his weight!

 

Those are the Facts b!tches and the facts are undisputed

[moonslav59]

Complete agree Bogey has lost little if anything. His defense has in fact improved and his WAR to date is 5.3--only 6.3 in 2019 was better. That 5.3 WAR is the 9th best in MLB right now and the highest among MLB shortstops.

 

The problem is he turns 30 October 1 and wants at least 5 more years and probably 7 with a bump-up in salary--all of which would of course be guaranteed. My guess is his agent is asking for $25M x 7 = $175M.

 

Remember Mookie Betts? His WAR right now is 6.2, 4th best in MLB, and he's on a 12 year, $365M guaranteed contract--and he's the same age as Bogey--both were born in October, 1992.

 

I can't see Bogey taking less than $175M/7. I'm not sure the Sox will offer him $150M/6- slightly more than Story.

[moonslav59]

Devers 30, Story 25, Bogey 25 (or Swanson 25). Either way, the latter might happen... unless they really think Mayer is a year or two away, then maybe Iglesias returns at 10 for two (and to mentor the kid, and join the coaching staff).

 

The way Bloom and Kennedy are already talking about spending this offseason -- responding to media pressure, which will only increase -- doesn't it seem like some legit splash names, plural, are inevitable? And I definitely include Devers as one of those.

 

I just don't see another half-dozen versatile, utility types or rehabbing pitchers coming this winter... or Bloom trading really good prospects for MLB regulars. It makes sense if they're going to be over the tax threshold to just spend money.

 

Early prediction (subject to change, depending on cost fluctuations due to stretch run/postseason performances): one big name starting pitcher, and one "professional" hitter/outfielder...

 

... although many of us here know there's a need for both Bassitt and Manaea for a little more than just one Rodon, and both Brantley and Haniger in the line-up.

 

Iggy's D has diminished, greatly, and I think he got $5M/1. I doubt he gets $8M/2, this winter.

 

I don't think Swanson gets what Bogey will get.