Fire Bloom .

[jad]

He's had one significant injury in his career, and seems fully healthy again.

 

I don't think Ole Red is ever going to reconcile himself to a vision of super-stars playing for the Sox, when all that money could go for a new yacht for DH.

[Old Red]

I don't think Ole Red is ever going to reconcile himself to a vision of super-stars playing for the Sox, when all that money could go for a new yacht for DH.

 

Where did you get that idea? I have said more than once that while I don’t like long $300M+ contracts I could care less if JH has to shell out $500M for payroll.

[jad]

Where did you get that idea? I have said more than once that while I don’t like long $300M+ contracts I could care less if JH has to shell out $500M for payroll.

 

but Dude, in what world are the best players going to sign nothing but short term deals? 'Market value' has changed since the good ole days before free agency.

[Old Red]

but Dude, in what world are the best players going to sign nothing but short term deals? 'Market value' has changed since the good ole days before free agency.

 

I’ve already mentioned that in a previous post, that contracts have gone up big time since JH bought the team.

[jad]

I’ve already mentioned that in a previous post, that contracts have gone up big time since JH bought the team.

 

Yes, but the point is still "How do you get the best players in baseball if you are not willing to give out long-term contracts?" If you're not willing to pay market value, you won't get them. You may well be right that long-term contracts are bad. But that doesn't change the basic situation.

[moonslav59]

Yes, but the point is still "How do you get the best players in baseball if you are not willing to give out long-term contracts?" If you're not willing to pay market value, you won't get them. You may well be right that long-term contracts are bad. But that doesn't change the basic situation.

 

The only other way is via trade- like Pedro, Schill, Beckett, Sale or via a beefed up farm- Lester, err...

 

It seems that when Bloom makes trades for promising prospects, in order to try an beef up the farm, he gets bashed for that, too.

[mvp 78]

Yes, but the point is still "How do you get the best players in baseball if you are not willing to give out long-term contracts?" If you're not willing to pay market value, you won't get them. You may well be right that long-term contracts are bad. But that doesn't change the basic situation.

The only way to do it without paying it is to have a strong farm system and lock up players really early if you absolutely have to a la Wander Franco.

 

Unfortunately, most “I don’t care what Henry has to pay, but players make too much” types don’t care about the farm.

[Old Red]

The only other way is via trade- like Pedro, Schill, Beckett, Sale or via a beefed up farm- Lester, err...

 

It seems that when Bloom makes trades for promising prospects, in order to try an beef up the farm, he gets bashed for that, too.

 

The problem is I want major league players back in a trade like Manny, or Pedro, and not a prospect.What’s wrong with that?

[vegasbob]

If they were willing to trade Trout, they might not have to throw in any money at all.

 

Trout is going to be plagued with chronic conditions that will put him on the IL 2 or 3 times a season. He is too physically developed for his own good, and he already has a chronic back condition. When he plays he has great ability to hit for power .

 

I think Devers will be found to be a physical liability by the time he reaches 30 . The only big money. long duration deal that would make sense with Rafael is one , like Bogaerts, where he can opt out after 3 years.

[notin]

Yes, but the point is still "How do you get the best players in baseball if you are not willing to give out long-term contracts?" If you're not willing to pay market value, you won't get them. You may well be right that long-term contracts are bad. But that doesn't change the basic situation.

 

The problem isn’t that the Sox always pay low or don’t give out long term contracts. The problem is long term contracts, by definition, take a long time to expire. And sometimes they keep teams from adding other long term expensive contracts until they do expire. This is especially true for teams that keep trying to reset tax limits

[jad]

The problem is I want major league players back in a trade like Manny, or Pedro, and not a prospect.What’s wrong with that?

 

Ha! Well, I want a pony.

[jad]

The problem isn’t that the Sox always pay low or don’t give out long term contracts. The problem is long term contracts, by definition, take a long time to expire. And sometimes they keep teams from adding other long term expensive contracts until they do expire. This is especially true for teams that keep trying to reset tax limits

 

Yes yes. I agree. As would anyone. But again, given the situation on contracts, please explain how you get the best players without committing to long-term contracts? (I'm pretty sure this is a question most GMs including Bloom think about every day.)

[moonslav59]

The problem is I want major league players back in a trade like Manny, or Pedro, and not a prospect.What’s wrong with that?

 

All those guys we traded for were for prospects only.

 

We did get a ML'er in the Betts deal.

We got one on the Ottavino, Beni, Diekman,Workman/Hembree and Renfroe deals. Maybe prospects would have been better. LOL!

[moonslav59]

The problem is I want major league players back in a trade like Manny, or Pedro, and not a prospect.What’s wrong with that?

 

No. Nothing wrong.

 

I'm talking about trading prospects for the next Pedro, Schill, Beckett..., but first we need a solid farm, but whenever Bloom tries to trade to build up the farm, he gets knocked down for doing so.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

If winning WS are the benchmark for a successful baseball franchise, then JH has been the most successful owner since the turn of the century. Whether one agrees or not with the deals and money spent, the results ended in 4 championships and there's 29 other teams out there who would love those kind of results.

[Bellhorn04]

He’s missed 40 games this year, and only played 36 last year.

 

Same injury.

[Bellhorn04]

If winning WS are the benchmark for a successful baseball franchise, then JH has been the most successful owner since the turn of the century. Whether one agrees with the deals and money spent, the results ended in 4 championships and there's 29 other teams out there who would love those kind of results.

 

I agree.

 

The 5 last place finishes in the last 11 years are a drag though.

[harmony]

A more realistic trade would be to a big spending team.

 

Would you trade Devers, Wong and Wink to SEA for France & Raleigh? (BTV accepted)

Thinking outside the box (to borrow a cliche): How could the Red Sox entice the Seattle Mariners to take on Trevor Story's contract, which Baseball Trade Values assigns a negative trade value of $40.3 million?

 

https://www.baseballtradevalues.com/players/9499/

 

Last offseason the Mariners pursued Story, who reportedly wanted to play instead for a perennial winner:

 

https://clutchpoints.com/mariners-rumors-the-reason-why-seattle-failed-to-sign-trevor-story-revealed/

 

Seattle second baseman Adam Frazier will be a free agent at the season's end while Abraham Toro, Dylan Moore and Sam Haggerty might not be frontline players.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

I agree.

 

The 5 last place finishes in the last 11 years are a drag though.

 

Last places are a drag, no doubt. But if we were all asked back in let's say 2000 would you accept 5 last place finishes and 4 championships in the next 22 years?

I'm pretty sure the vast majority would say yes, let that happen.

[moonslav59]

Same injury.

 

Yup. Here are his yearly PAs per season since his year two:

 

639

716

705

682

681

507

608

600

In 2020, he played in 53 of 60 games (241 PAs, which would have placed him 2nd on the Sox in 2020 PAs)

[Bellhorn04]

Last places are a drag, no doubt. But if we were all asked back in let's say 2000 would you accept 5 last place finishes and 4 championships in the next 22 years?

I'm pretty sure the vast majority would say yes, let that happen.

 

Hell yeah.

[moonslav59]

Last places are a drag, no doubt. But if we were all asked back in let's say 2000 would you accept 5 last place finishes and 4 championships in the next 22 years?

I'm pretty sure the vast majority would say yes, let that happen.

 

From the mid 70's to the early 2000's, I often said to fellow Sox fans, "Ill take 10 last place finishes for just one ring!"

 

Now, I am spoiled.

[Hugh2]

It’s funny how a 31 year old Mike Trout scares people, but paying Mookie Betts until he’s 39 doesn’t. There’s a very good and real chance he falls off a cliff somewhere between 30-35 with a little regression coming before then.

 

Not that I didn’t want him resigned, the time to resign guys is before they hit arbitration. Give them the long years then so you’re paying into their mid 30s instead of when they’re into their late 30’s.

 

You will still get burned, but we’re talking 1st degree burns, not 3rd degree.

[Hugh2]

This team has a history (recently) of going last to first rather quickly. Here’s to hoping it repeats itself.

 

Will be easier next year with less games against the stacked AL east

[moonslav59]

Thinking outside the box (to borrow a cliche): How could the Red Sox entice the Seattle Mariners to take on Trevor Story's contract, which Baseball Trade Values assigns a negative trade value of $40.3 million?

 

https://www.baseballtradevalues.com/players/9499/

 

Last offseason the Mariners pursued Story, who reportedly wanted to play instead for a perennial winner:

 

https://clutchpoints.com/mariners-rumors-the-reason-why-seattle-failed-to-sign-trevor-story-revealed/

 

Seattle second baseman Adam Frazier will be a free agent at the season's end while Abraham Toro, Dylan Moore and Sam Haggerty might not be frontline players.

 

I'm not looking to dump Story's salary. I still think he might earn it.

 

He's athletic and a top defender. I fully admit, I'm biased towards players like him and Kike.

 

Up the middle D- BABY! Old school on this one!

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

From the mid 70's to the early 2000's, I often said to fellow Sox fans, "Ill take 10 last place finishes for just one ring!"

 

Now, I am spoiled.

 

I believe we all are.

[moonslav59]

Not that I didn’t want him resigned, the time to resign guys is before they hit arbitration. Give them the long years then so you’re paying into their mid 30s instead of when they’re into their late 30’s.

 

You need young studs, first.

 

We did lock up Whitlock- not 15 years, but still..

 

Who do we have, now? Houck? Bello?

[dgalehouse]

Ownership and management need to consistently field a team that is capable of winning their division and competing for a championship. There is not much they can do about the crapshoot nature of the post season. This year there will be twelve teams all hoping to get hot and grab the brass ring.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

It’s funny how a 31 year old Mike Trout scares people, but paying Mookie Betts until he’s 39 doesn’t. There’s a very good and real chance he falls off a cliff somewhere between 30-35 with a little regression coming before then.

 

Not that I didn’t want him resigned, the time to resign guys is before they hit arbitration. Give them the long years then so you’re paying into their mid 30s instead of when they’re into their late 30’s.

 

You will still get burned, but we’re talking 1st degree burns, not 3rd degree.

 

Unfortunately, a team isn't just dealing with the player(s); a team also has to deal with agents, the Boreasses of the world. I do agree that if a FO negotiates with a player very early in his career, the FO has a better chance of making a favorable long term deal, but at the same time the risk factor also increases.

[harmony]

Unfortunately, a team isn't just dealing with the player(s); a team also has to deal with agents, the Boreasses of the world. I do agree that if a FO negotiates with a player very early in his career, the FO has a better chance of making a favorable long term deal, but at the same time the risk factor also increases.

Unfortunately Scott Boras and other agents need to deal with front offices looking for team-friendly deals.

 

Negotiations cut both ways.