Fire Bloom .

[notin]

It would be hard to win any trade for Raffy especially with one year of control. Bloom would get some flak, but Henry would be the biggest villain.

 

Bloom will get all the flak. Replace the name “Devers” with “Betts” and it's a show we’ve seen before…

[Bellhorn04]

That’s their problem; not mine…

 

Valid questions though.

[notin]

Valid questions though.

 

Well then they’d probably tell you they were straight up going for it for one year.

 

If the Sox deal Devers this off-season, the logical landing spots are the Phillies (because of Dombrowski) and the Mets (who want to keep him away from Dombrowski)…

[Bellhorn04]

Meanwhile Mookie is on fire.

 

Not a great time for the Red Sox front office.

[moonslav59]

The Seattle Mariners go nowhere near that trade.

 

FWIW this year Rafael Devers has posted 3.9 bWAR while Seattle third baseman Eugenio Suarez has posted 3.7 bWAR.

 

Devers remains under team control for one year working off his 2022 salary of $11.2 million while Suarez is under contract for two more seasons at $11 million annually with a $15 million team option, or $2 million buyout, for 2025.

 

Cal Raleigh, a 25-year-old who leads all American League catchers in home runs, is best known for his handling of the formidable Seattle pitching staff.

 

Trivia: Who, despite his flaws, leads Major League Baseball in home runs since the start of the 2018 season?

 

Suarez can play 1B, and Saurez is tied with Judge for the most homers since 2018.

[Hugh2]

Suarez can play 1B, and Saurez is tied with Judge for the most homers since 2018.

 

Saurez is a nice player, but a .798 OPS at 30 years old vs. Devers? I'd bank on Devers posting the better WAR over the next 5 years.

[moonslav59]

Saurez is a nice player, but a .798 OPS at 30 years old vs. Devers? I'd bank on Devers posting the better WAR over the next 5 years.

 

Tell that to harmony.

[Old Red]

That’s their problem; not mine…

 

Wow! Not a trade that would make sense, and not a trade that would be made.

[Old Red]

Valid questions though.

 

Valid questions. Not a valid trade offer for Miami. They had their big signing with Stanton, and that did not work out very well.

[Old Red]

Well then they’d probably tell you they were straight up going for it for one year.

 

If the Sox deal Devers this off-season, the logical landing spots are the Phillies (because of Dombrowski) and the Mets (who want to keep him away from Dombrowski)…

 

A team 20 games under 500, and worse off than the Sox going for it? Come on man!

[Old Red]

Bloom will get all the flak. Replace the name “Devers” with “Betts” and it's a show we’ve seen before…

 

Henry got flak, because the trade was made, and Bloom got flak for what they got back like no pitching, and the Great Jeter Downs, and maybe a backup C.

[Hugh2]

Henry got flak, because the trade was made, and Bloom got flak for what they got back like no pitching, and the Great Jeter Downs, and maybe a backup C.

 

Well, we did get multiple years of control of Verdugo for a 1/3 of a year of control of Betts. That alone wins the trade. It looks bad because of how good Betts is now under a new contract but it comes down to what you do with that money which makes it almost impossible to evaluate. But one of those moves was Hunter Renfroe. He also added Kike and other assets that ultimately took them within 2 games of a world series so from a certain perspective he did pretty darn well in that trade.

 

What I want to know is.....what other offers were on the table. I think that's a fair question.

Edited August 31, 2022 by A Red Sox fan named Hugh

[Hugh2]

To be fair, given the FA class and the mandate Bloom had presumably been given this may be the year to judge him on what he does with that money. Seeing how the Sox have about 100 million per to spend.

[Old Red]

Well, we did get multiple years of control of Verdugo for 1 1/3 of a year of control of Betts. That alone wins the trade. It looks bad because of how good Betts is now under a new contract but it comes down to what you do with that money which makes it almost impossible to evaluate. But one of those moves was Hunter Renfroe. He also added Kike and other assets that ultimately took them within 2 games of a world series so from a certain perspective he did pretty darn well in that trade.

 

What I want to know is.....what other offers were on the table. I think that's a fair question.

 

We know we’ve heard the company line hundred of times on here on how many years of control we got for Dugy compared to Betts., but the bottom line still is that Dugy replaced Betts a future HOF, who’s talent doesn’t come through here everyday. Everyone knows how good Betts is, and everyone has their opinion on how good Bloom did on the trade, and I am not one who thinks he did very well. Henry has plenty of money, and yes he can do what he wants to with it.

[Bellhorn04]

Well, we did get multiple years of control of Verdugo for a 1/3 of a year of control of Betts. That alone wins the trade. It looks bad because of how good Betts is now under a new contract but it comes down to what you do with that money which makes it almost impossible to evaluate. But one of those moves was Hunter Renfroe. He also added Kike and other assets that ultimately took them within 2 games of a world series so from a certain perspective he did pretty darn well in that trade.

 

What I want to know is.....what other offers were on the table. I think that's a fair question.

 

I don't blame Bloom for trading Betts.

 

But I'm starting to think Henry and Werner really blew it there. They just didn't make enough of an effort to keep him IMHO. We may rue it for a long time.

[dgalehouse]

Nothing against Verdugo. He is decent player despite the sometimes brain freezes and lack of hustle. Pretty good bat. However, his name should not be used in the same sentence as Mookie Betts. There is a world of difference between them.

[Bellhorn04]

To me the trade is a footnote, and the real question will always be how did it get to that point.

[Hugh2]

We know we’ve heard the company line hundred of times on here on how many years of control we got for Dugy compared to Betts., but the bottom line still is that Dugy replaced Betts a future HOF, who’s talent doesn’t come through here everyday. Everyone knows how good Betts is, and everyone has their opinion on how good Bloom did on the trade, and I am not one who thinks he did very well. Henry has plenty of money, and yes he can do what he wants to with it.

 

You can call it the company like or whatever you want, we can argue semantics until 2055 but you're only comparing 1/3 a year of Betts. If we want an honest comparison, value for the value of what you got and what you gave out in the trade then you're only comparing 1/3 a season of Betts. That's a fact.

 

If you want to make the arugment that "well they could have resigned him if they didn't trade him" that's fine. I don't think that's an honest argument but for the sake of it I'll concede that point. Now you have to value Verdugo every year PLUS what $30.5 gets you. And that's insanely objective. Every year I can take the most productive FA signings made after 2021 and add it up to 30.5 million. It's very likely I'm going to get value comparable to Betts. It's a losing argument for you either way.

 

This can be true, and it can still be true that they should have resigned him. They're not mutually exclusive from one another.

[Old Red]

Nothing against Verdugo. He is decent player despite the sometimes brain freezes and lack of hustle. Pretty good bat. However, his name should not be used in the same sentence as Mookie Betts. There is a world of difference between them.

 

That’s the point I keep trying to get across. In the big picture Dugy replaced a future HOF. The small picture is the number of years of control the team has with Dugy over Betts.

[dgalehouse]

That’s the point I keep trying to get across. In the big picture Dugy replaced a future HOF. The small picture is the number of years of control the team has with Dugy over Betts.

 

I don't care how many years of control you have. Big deal. Where does it get you?

[Hugh2]

Let's also not forget that 12 years is a VERY!!!! long time. We have no idea what Betts is going to look like in 10 years. It could get very ugly. Think of a player like McCutchen who has a very similar profile to Betts. Imagine being so insanely angry we didn't sign him to 365 million dollars.....how happy would we have been several years later?

[Hugh2]

That’s the point I keep trying to get across. In the big picture Dugy replaced a future HOF. The small picture is the number of years of control the team has with Dugy over Betts.

 

 

Verdugo doesn't replace Betts, because every year after 2021 Betts wasn't under team control. How you spend 30.5 million dollars is what replaces Betts. That's the larger picture.

[dgalehouse]

Let's also not forget that 12 years is a VERY!!!! long time. We have no idea what Betts is going to look like in 10 years. It could get very ugly. Think of a player like McCutchen who has a very similar profile to Betts. Imagine being so insanely angry we didn't sign him to 365 million dollars.....how happy would we have been several years later?

 

That argument just doesn't wash with fans. We can't predict the future. The Dodger fans are having a great time. The Sox fans are suffering. Are we supposed to take comfort in knowing that Mookie may not be as good when he gets older? Do you think the Dodgers are so dumb that they don't know that?

[Old Red]

I don't blame Bloom for trading Betts.

 

But I'm starting to think Henry and Werner really blew it there. They just didn't make enough of an effort to keep him IMHO. We may rue it for a long time.

 

Like I keep saying Betts is a future HOF. Bogey, and Raffy may get there too. To lose all three, or even two out of the three is just not a good look on, and off the field. Contracts have gone up big time since JH bought the team, but if you still want to play the game you have to pay. The Braves have locked up their young stars early, and Seattle has just locked up one of theirs. What have the Red Sox done, or haven’t done with Raffy? According to Raffy they have only offered him that one contract before the season started, so instead of doing what the Braves have done the Red Sox have sat, and watched Raffy’s price tag go up, up, and up. Not good baseball, or financial sense.

[Old Red]

Verdugo doesn't replace Betts, because every year after 2021 Betts wasn't under team control. How you spend 30.5 million dollars is what replaces Betts. That's the larger picture.

 

You can look at it that way, but I look at it completely different. Mookie is in Dodger Blue, and Dugy is in a Red Sox uniform. To keep talking about team control doesn’t change that fact.

[dgalehouse]

To Sam Kennedy: SCOREBOARD!!!!

[Hugh2]

That argument just doesn't wash with fans. We can't predict the future. The Dodger fans are having a great time. The Sox fans are suffering. Are we supposed to take comfort in knowing that Mookie may not be as good when he gets older? Do you think the Dodgers are so dumb that they don't know that?

 

No, I think the Dodgers fans are having fun because their ownership isn't afraid to pay 280 million dollars a year. If we were spending that type of money Mookie Betts would still be on this team.

[Old Red]

To Sam Kennedy: SCOREBOARD!!!!

 

Kennedy is just the mouthpiece for JH.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I don't care how many years of control you have. Big deal. Where does it get you?

 

That's always been my point. Verdugo's batting .284, and only five RBIs from the team lead, and he's still only 0.4 WAR better than a replacement player?

 

Watching him play defense or run the bases sometimes, and it seems like his ceiling is no higher than the top of a door. And I like the guy...

 

Like Bell alludes to, there are questions about Betts in Boston that will never be answered. But seeing how fast, long-and-large the Dodgers moved on locking him up, I'm convinced Friedman had every intention -- and confidence -- of dealing for Mookie to keep him in LA.

 

But fans will never know what's really discussed behind closed texts between execs, agents, players and their families...

[Old Red]

no, i think the dodgers fans are having fun because their ownership isn't afraid to pay 280 million dollars a year. If we were spending that type of money mookie betts would still be on this team.

 

Bingo!