Fire Bloom .

[Old Red]

I hope Bloom saw the game last night, and the backend of the Twins BP. A setup man in the 7th, a setup man in the 8th, and a actual closer in the 9th. To. Me that’s the way to do it. Guys who throw 1 inning at a time, and 98-103. Wow! Hey it’s nice to be able to throw 2 innings at a time but the Twins way to me is the best way.

[Old Red]

It's about the farm and a bunch of dead money coming off the books.

 

“Next year will be the 22nd season of the John Henry-Tom Werner-Mike Gordon Fenway Sports Group stewardship of this franchise,” Kennedy told Rosenthal of the ownership group. “Since we’ve been here, each and every year we have a goal of playing baseball in October. I do not see that changing. I see us continuing to invest across the entire organization, at the major-league level, throughout our baseball operations. This group is hungry for another World Series championship. … I know we’re in a tough spot right now. But we have a lot of flexibility going into this offseason. I’m really excited to see what we’re going to do with that flexibility and the resources we have.“

 

I’d be more excited if we had someone other than Bloom to deal with the flexibility, and resources. Did Kennedy sound like a bad politician?

Edited August 30, 2022 by Old Red

[Hugh2]

I hope Bloom saw the game last night, and the backend of the Twins BP. A setup man in the 7th, a setup man in the 8th, and a actual closer in the 9th. To. Me that’s the way to do it. Guys who throw 1 inning at a time, and 98-103. Wow! Hey it’s nice to be able to throw 2 innings at a time but the Twins way to me is the best way.

 

Jorge Lopez was a very nice pick up for them. A prime example of what a great scouting department and a good pitching coach, and a patient fan base can do for a pitcher.

 

In Lopez’s 7 years of pitching at the MLB level, he’d have been the worse pitcher at the MLB level every year but this year.

 

If we traded for him at the beginning of the year he’d the ultimate dumpster dive move by a team. If we traded for him at the deadline we’d have given up top ten prospects, which may be forgivable in more competitive years.

 

FWIW, the twins often use Duran as a multi inning role, not just one inning like he pitched last night, in that one game we watched.

Edited August 30, 2022 by A Red Sox fan named Hugh

[Old Red]

Jorge Lopez was a very nice pick up for them. A prime example of what a great scouting department and a good pitching coach, and a patient fan base can do for a pitcher.

 

In Lopez’s 7 years of pitching at the MLB level, he’d have been the worse pitcher at the MLB level every year but this year.

 

If we traded for him at the beginning of the year he’d the ultimate dumpster dive move by a team. If we traded for him at the deadline we’d have given up top ten prospects, which may be forgivable in more competitive years.

 

FWIW, the twins often use Duran as a multi inning role, not just one inning like he pitched last night, in that one game we watched.

 

Duran hasn’t pitched in more than 1 inning since Jul 16th like 16 appearances ago, which was before they picked up Lopez to close. No one was saying to trade for Lopez, but just to have a reliable closer, and 2 good setup men. God forbid if we had to give up a top 10 suspect from the farm to get something.

Edited August 30, 2022 by Old Red

[Hugh2]

Duran hasn’t pitched in more than 1 inning since Jul 16th like 16 appearances ago, which was before they picked up Lopez to close. No one was saying to trade for Lopez, but just to have a reliable closer, and 2 good setup men. God forbid if we had to give up a top 10 suspect from the farm to get something.

 

No problem giving up a top ten prospect for an elite closer. But is this really the year to do that? Your team sucks.

 

It’s like playing blackjack and doubling down on your 5 when the dealer is showing a 10.

 

Nothing wrong with doubling down….but not there….not in that place. I’m not sure I’d you were one I’d the people upset we didn’t get a closer at the deadline or not, maybe I shouldn’t make assumptions

[Old Red]

No problem giving up a top ten prospect for an elite closer. But is this really the year to do that? Your team sucks.

 

It’s like playing blackjack and doubling down on your 5 when the dealer is showing a 10.

 

Nothing wrong with doubling down….but not there….not in that place. I’m not sure I’d you were one I’d the people upset we didn’t get a closer at the deadline or not, maybe I shouldn’t make assumptions

 

The point being that this team should have had a reliable closer on DAY 1, and then if you had one, and two reliable setup men would be the best way to go. I referenced the Twins in the first post, because that’s what they have done, and I wasn’t talking about the Red Sox current situation at the deadline.

[Hugh2]

The point being that this team should have had a reliable closer on DAY 1, and then if you had one, and two reliable setup men would be the best way to go. I referenced the Twins in the first post, because that’s what they have done, and I wasn’t talking about the Red Sox current situation at the deadline.

 

I didn’t say you were, but that’s how the twins got their closer.

[Old Red]

I didn’t say you were, but that’s how the twins got their closer.

 

Understood.

[Hugh2]

I think a lot of people wanted to see another arm added to the bullpen, I think they thought Barnes would be better, he was an all star last year who looked like he had closers stuff but then he fell apart. Bullpen arms are volatile like that, sometimes in the opposite direction…..like Lopez, who was god awful before this year. If we traded for him at the beginning of the season Bloom would have been criticized, at least then.

 

Maybe we need a better scouting department.

[Old Red]

I think a lot of people wanted to see another arm added to the bullpen, I think they thought Barnes would be better, he was an all star last year who looked like he had closers stuff but then he fell apart. Bullpen arms are volatile like that, sometimes in the opposite direction…..like Lopez, who was god awful before this year. If we traded for him at the beginning of the season Bloom would have been criticized, at least then.

 

Maybe we need a better scouting department.

 

Or a different, and better place to shop.

[Bellhorn04]

Boston Globe beat reporter Alex Speier asks: What does the Julio Rodriguez extension mean for the future of the Red Sox?

 

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2022/08/26/sports/red-sox-start-considering-long-term-deals-with-younger-players/

 

... noting that the Red Sox failed to lock up Mookie Betts and Rafael Devers early in their careers.

 

As as side note under the new CBA, because Rodriguez made the Opening Day roster the Mariners will receive an additional draft pick if Rodriguez finishes in the top three in Rookie of the Year voting.

 

Very interesting article. Speier is really becoming a go-to baseball writer.

 

The deal between the M's and Rodriguez is one a lot of teams will be examining. It's an innovative one.

[Hugh2]

Or a different, and better place to shop.

 

Well that was kind of my point with Lopez, often times elite relief pitching is garbage finds for years, and then all of a sudden they put it together for a few years. You can either pay a boatload for a guy who could revert back to a pumpkin in a year or two, or perhaps you can invest in your scouting department and see if you can be more efficient at finding these guys. Maybe it's the quality of your pitching coaches and you think you can take someone and tinker with them a bit and correct a flaw that you see holding them back from greatness.

 

I'll admit, I didn't know who Lopez was before the middle of this year. Going back and looking at his stat line, and it's amazing how absolutely AWFUL he was for such a long time. He'd the prototypical guy who is 28, was a top 100 prospect in all of baseball who just can't put it together. He would have been the worse player on this team any other year of his career before this year and the most hated player on this board. Pre 2022 of course.

[notin]

Well that was kind of my point with Lopez, often times elite relief pitching is garbage finds for years, and then all of a sudden they put it together for a few years. You can either pay a boatload for a guy who could revert back to a pumpkin in a year or two, or perhaps you can invest in your scouting department and see if you can be more efficient at finding these guys. Maybe it's the quality of your pitching coaches and you think you can take someone and tinker with them a bit and correct a flaw that you see holding them back from greatness.

 

I'll admit, I didn't know who Lopez was before the middle of this year. Going back and looking at his stat line, and it's amazing how absolutely AWFUL he was for such a long time. He'd the prototypical guy who is 28, was a top 100 prospect in all of baseball who just can't put it together. He would have been the worse player on this team any other year of his career before this year and the most hated player on this board. Pre 2022 of course.

 

I’m not even sure it’s about better scouting. Lopez was probably scouted every year by every team, if only by the advanced guys. If anyone saw a breakout coming, they likely try to buy low on the guy.

 

But the reality is some (re: lots of) young pitchers are like hurricanes - very unpredictable. Someone like Darwinzon Hernandez, written off by many already (including yours truly), could have some epiphany that allows him to harness his 102mph velocity and become a useful, and possibly even dominant, MLB pitcher. And while half the board reading this is saying “No f***ing way.,” you’re probably right on my specific example, but this kind of thing does happen every year, be it from Jorge Lopez or Tony Gonsolin.

 

Only 390 pitching spots are available in all of MLB. The level of talent any pitcher has to possess to even be considered for one of these roles is infathomable to most of us.

 

And yet somehow even when it comes to narrowing down thousands of pitchers into the best 390, and hundreds more into the best 13, we as fans demand perfection and anything else is intolerable…

[Bellhorn04]

But the reality is some (re: lots of) young pitchers are like hurricanes - very unpredictable. Someone like Darwinzon Hernandez, written off by many already (including yours truly), could have some epiphany that allows him to harness his 102mph velocity and become a useful, and possibly even dominant, MLB pitcher. And while half the board reading this is saying “No f***ing way.,” you’re probably right on my specific example, but this kind of thing does happen every year, be it from Jorge Lopez or Tony Gonsolin.

 

And the epiphany could be somebody suggesting a small mechanical adjustment in his pitching motion.

[Hugh2]

I’m not even sure it’s about better scouting. Lopez was probably scouted every year by every team, if only by the advanced guys. If anyone saw a breakout coming, they likely try to buy low on the guy.

 

But the reality is some (re: lots of) young pitchers are like hurricanes - very unpredictable. Someone like Darwinzon Hernandez, written off by many already (including yours truly), could have some epiphany that allows him to harness his 102mph velocity and become a useful, and possibly even dominant, MLB pitcher. And while half the board reading this is saying “No f***ing way.,” you’re probably right on my specific example, but this kind of thing does happen every year, be it from Jorge Lopez or Tony Gonsolin.

 

Only 390 pitching spots are available in all of MLB. The level of talent any pitcher has to possess to even be considered for one of these roles is infathomable to most of us.

 

And yet somehow even when it comes to narrowing down thousands of pitchers into the best 390, and hundreds more into the best 13, we as fans demand perfection and anything else is intolerable…

 

This is exactly why I get a kick out of posters who seem angry when a young pitcher is demoted instead of just booted from the organization. There's a reason why teams don't give up on talent so quickly.

[notin]

This is exactly why I get a kick out of posters who seem angry when a young pitcher is demoted instead of just booted from the organization. There's a reason why teams don't give up on talent so quickly.

 

 

And sometimes it’s even also why a veteran pitcher gets a longer leash on the roster.

 

Even with the younger starters, I think the Sox potentially showed us the good ones this year in Bello (especially Bello), Crawford and Winckowski. But fans soured on both Crawford and Winckowski already, seemingly because they failed to maintain perfection. But both are also approaching their career highs in IP, and doing so against MLB hitters. It could be their simply worn out…

[Hugh2]

And sometimes it’s even also why a veteran pitcher gets a longer leash on the roster.

 

Even with the younger starters, I think the Sox potentially showed us the good ones this year in Bello (especially Bello), Crawford and Winckowski. But fans soured on both Crawford and Winckowski already, seemingly because they failed to maintain perfection. But both are also approaching their career highs in IP, and doing so against MLB hitters. It could be their simply worn out…

 

Personally I'm much higher on Bello than those two, results aside. I think Crawford would be better in the bullpen. I'm not really sure Winckowski has MLB stuff to stick on a roster. I think he's more of a swingman up/down guy. Bello might be special, and I'm sure those words are going to get some posters all hot and bothered because he's not immediately pitching like Roger CLemens.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Personally I'm much higher on Bello than those two, results aside. I think Crawford would be better in the bullpen. I'm not really sure Winckowski has MLB stuff to stick on a roster. I think he's more of a swingman up/down guy. Bello might be special, and I'm sure those words are going to get some posters all hot and bothered because he's not immediately pitching like Roger CLemens.

 

"98 with a change" -- that's a primetime Rays' pitcher already. Can't you just see Bello all over the Tampa moundscape: opener, bulk, high lev relief, then all of sudden he's throwing a no-hitter through seven, and the rest of the division goes, "Who dat?"

 

Bello is winless with a bad ERA, but anyone watching closely sees a guy not that far away from MLB success. He's already better than Darwinzon, and I trust the front office not to trade him for mediocrity used to promote the guise of temporary stability.

 

What sets Bello apart from all the other young Red Sox pitchers: he has dominated at every level except one (so far). And many of those peers he dominated will soon join him again at this last level.

[Hugh2]

"98 with a change" -- that's a primetime Rays' pitcher already. Can't you just see Bello all over the Tampa moundscape: opener, bulk, high lev relief, then all of sudden he's throwing a no-hitter through seven, and the rest of the division goes, "Who dat?"

 

Bello is winless with a bad ERA, but anyone watching closely sees a guy not that far away from MLB success. He's already better than Darwinzon, and I trust the front office not to trade him for mediocrity used to promote the guise of temporary stability.

 

What sets Bello apart from all the other young Red Sox pitchers: he has dominated at every level except one (so far). And many of those peers he dominated will soon join him again at this last level.

 

Agree 100%

[moonslav59]

"98 with a change" -- that's a primetime Rays' pitcher already. Can't you just see Bello all over the Tampa moundscape: opener, bulk, high lev relief, then all of sudden he's throwing a no-hitter through seven, and the rest of the division goes, "Who dat?"

 

Bello is winless with a bad ERA, but anyone watching closely sees a guy not that far away from MLB success. He's already better than Darwinzon, and I trust the front office not to trade him for mediocrity used to promote the guise of temporary stability.

 

What sets Bello apart from all the other young Red Sox pitchers: he has dominated at every level except one (so far). And many of those peers he dominated will soon join him again at this last level.

 

Great analysis.

 

The "eye test" shows the kid can pitch. He just needs to make some adjustments and learn a few things. He may learn quickly, or it may take time, but I'm thinking he becomes a real good starter, at some point.

 

Mata might end up doing the same.

 

I think Crawford, Wink, Seabold, Murphy and German all have a good chance to help the pen, next year. (OK, maybe not Seabold.)

[Hugh2]

Great analysis.

 

The "eye test" shows the kid can pitch. He just needs to make some adjustments and learn a few things. He may learn quickly, or it may take time, but I'm thinking he becomes a real good starter, at some point.

 

Mata might end up doing the same.

 

I think Crawford, Wink, Seabold, Murphy and German all have a good chance to help the pen, next year. (OK, maybe not Seabold.)

 

I'm not even sure about Wink either, he might be a lightening in a bottle type. Catch him while he's good, but he has no margin for error.

 

I've seen Bello pitch in person a few times now, I think he's going to be good. How good I have no ideal, who does, but he's going to be the first legit starter we've developed since Clay. It's about damn time.

[moonslav59]

I'm not even sure about Wink either, he might be a lightening in a bottle type. Catch him while he's good, but he has no margin for error.

 

I've seen Bello pitch in person a few times now, I think he's going to be good. How good I have no ideal, who does, but he's going to be the first legit starter we've developed since Clay. It's about damn time.

 

Wink being a coin toss might be generous, but he might end up being a decent multi-inning RP'er, someday.

[FredLynn]

Personally I'm much higher on Bello than those two, results aside. I think Crawford would be better in the bullpen. I'm not really sure Winckowski has MLB stuff to stick on a roster. I think he's more of a swingman up/down guy. Bello might be special, and I'm sure those words are going to get some posters all hot and bothered because he's not immediately pitching like Roger CLemens.

 

Its way too early to give up on Bello. 98 doesn't grow on trees. But he does need a plus third pitch to make it as a successful starter.

[Old Red]

Its way too early to give up on Bello. 98 doesn't grow on trees. But he does need a plus third pitch to make it as a successful starter.

 

Who is giving up on Bello? He wasn’t ready to be brought up, and is going through growing pains. I agree on a third pitch.

[dgalehouse]

Duran hasn’t pitched in more than 1 inning since Jul 16th like 16 appearances ago, which was before they picked up Lopez to close. No one was saying to trade for Lopez, but just to have a reliable closer, and 2 good setup men. God forbid if we had to give up a top 10 suspect from the farm to get something.

 

And the Orioles traded Lopez because they had the Giant ready to take the closer's role. Other teams are way ahead of the Sox in bullpen construction. The Sox approach to the bullpen has not worked. And that has cost them plenty. It is ,and has been , the single biggest weakness. Will next year be different? I don't know.

[Old Red]

And the Orioles traded Lopez because they had the Giant ready to take the closer's role. Other teams are way ahead of the Sox in bullpen construction. The Sox approach to the bullpen has not worked. And that has cost them plenty. It is ,and has been , the single biggest weakness. Will next year be different? I don't know.

 

Like Eck said last night. If you don’t have a good BP you have nothing.

[Bellhorn04]

Like Eck said last night. If you don’t have a good BP you have nothing.

 

Mind you, you could probably say the same about the starting rotation.

[Old Red]

Mind you, you could probably say the same about the starting rotation.

 

Agree you have to have the starting rotation to get you to a good BP to be worth something.

[dgalehouse]

Like Eck said last night. If you don’t have a good BP you have nothing.

 

Eck would know a thing or two about it. He was one of the best.

[dgalehouse]

Agree you have to have the starting rotation to get you to a good BP to be worth something.

 

Of course you would want both. In recent years , the role of starters has diminished a bit. The bullpen is more important than ever. Nearly every close game becomes a battle of the bullpens. The Sox have failed to keep pace in this area. And it shows. Eck knows what he is talking about.