2022 Starting Rotation Thread

[mvp 78]

That's a decent list, and the reason I don't say good to great is that all have had recent injuries and will be over 30 next winter (except Nola, 29). What I didn't know is that DeGrom is older than Eovaldi...

 

The reason I think Nate's workouts make him a good future investment is that he continues to establish a program, in-season and off-season, to try to ensure regular turns through the rotation all year. He missed a few starts in '20, but has been by far the dependable ace the past two seasons. It's an encouraging trend.

 

I hope he's turned a corner in his career and can be healthy for a long time regardless if it's on the Sox.

[mvp 78]

Who is happy about that $17M coming off the books?

 

He is mentioned when we say how much money is coming off the books, but replacing him and Bogey for $17 and $20M will not be easy.

 

The risk of re-signing Eovaldi AND Sale was that the injury concerns would make it likely that the contracts would end up not being worth it, plus it prevented us from re-signing Mookie. We are lucky that both of the contracts turned out to be duds and it was just the obvious Sale extension that looks horrible in retrospect.

[moonslav59]

The risk of re-signing Eovaldi AND Sale was that the injury concerns would make it likely that the contracts would end up not being worth it, plus it prevented us from re-signing Mookie. We are lucky that both of the contracts turned out to be duds and it was just the obvious Sale extension that looks horrible in retrospect.

 

No doubt, but like I said, nobody is happy about needing to replace Eovaldi with some one who projects to do what he has just done at just $17M/yr going forward.

Edited March 24, 2022 by moonslav59

[notin]

That's a decent list, and the reason I don't say good to great is that all have had recent injuries and will be over 30 next winter (except Nola, 29). What I didn't know is that DeGrom is older than Eovaldi...

 

The reason I think Nate's workouts make him a good future investment is that he continues to establish a program, in-season and off-season, to try to ensure regular turns through the rotation all year. He missed a few starts in '20, but has been by far the dependable ace the past two seasons. It's an encouraging trend.

 

 

So you’re fully on board with the “he’s never getting injured again!!” bandwagon based on one season. And he’s clearly worth the $100 (or likely more) risk?

[notin]

The risk of re-signing Eovaldi AND Sale was that the injury concerns would make it likely that the contracts would end up not being worth it, plus it prevented us from re-signing Mookie. We are lucky that both of the contracts turned out to be duds and it was just the obvious Sale extension that looks horrible in retrospect.

 

If only Sale would just adopt Eovaldi’s healthy lifestyle…

[mvp 78]

If only Sale would just adopt Eovaldi’s healthy lifestyle…

 

Listen, running with scissors is never a good look.

[moonslav59]

Listen, running with scissors is never a good look.

 

Sale runs with scissors in each hand and in his pockets.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

So you’re fully on board with the “he’s never getting injured again!!” bandwagon based on one season. And he’s clearly worth the $100 (or likely more) risk?

 

Nope, but I'm fully on board with asking, "who is?"... as I have been the past two years.

 

My point has always been that Eovaldi was never overpaid; just earning the market rate for a mid-rotation starter (especially if Sale and Price supposedly established the rate for top end starters). And now ERod makes the market rate... somewhere else.

 

And next year, if Nate is "off the books," some of us will be praying Bloom doesn't replace him with two more mediocrities for the price of one Eovaldi.

[moonslav59]

Nope, but I'm fully on board with asking, "who is?"... as I have been the past two years.

 

My point has always been that Eovaldi was never overpaid; just earning the market rate for a mid-rotation starter (especially if Sale and Price supposedly established the rate for top end starters). And now ERod makes the market rate... somewhere else.

 

And next year, if Nate is "off the books," some of us will be praying Bloom doesn't replace him with two more mediocrities for the price of one Eovaldi.

 

Eovaldi had exceed expectations, after his signing, despite missing sometime that first contract season. Not only has he pitched more games and innings than most thought he would, he'd done as good or better than at any time in his career. He wasn't over the hill, when we signed him. His contract years run from age 29-32, so that is basically prime.

 

ERA+ by team

96 LAD (age 21-22) 1.440 WHIP

93 MIA (age 22-24) 1.363

94 NYY (25-26) 1.387

97 TBR (28) 0.982

115 BOS (28-31 with age 32 to go) 1.280

 

His 127 ERA+ since 2020 is right up there with the best. In 2021, he led the league in GS (32) and FIP (2.79).

 

[Nick]

Eovaldi had exceed expectations, after his signing, despite missing sometime that first contract season. Not only has he pitched more games and innings than most thought he would, he'd done as good or better than at any time in his career. He wasn't over the hill, when we signed him. His contract years run from age 29-32, so that is basically prime.

 

ERA+ by team

96 LAD (age 21-22) 1.440 WHIP

93 MIA (age 22-24) 1.363

94 NYY (25-26) 1.387

97 TBR (28) 0.982

115 BOS (28-31 with age 32 to go) 1.280

 

His 127 ERA+ since 2020 is right up there with the best. In 2021, he led the league in GS (32) and FIP (2.79).

 

 

Eovaldi acquisition was shrewd move by the Sox. When he signed, Porcello add one more year left. I always viewed that as prudent signing. Teams must anticipate future losses.

 

We now have the shortstop position covered. I love the Story pickup.

 

If Dalbec can continue to produce as he did after the All-Star break, then he can fill in for Devers if he leaves after 2023.

 

Casas appears to have 1B locked. He's giving no indication he can't do it.

 

Assuming Yorke continues to develop, he is our future 2B.

 

NEED A CATCHER.

[moonslav59]

Eovaldi acquisition was shrewd move by the Sox. When he signed, Porcello add one more year left. I always viewed that as prudent signing. Teams must anticipate future losses.

 

We now have the shortstop position covered. I love the Story pickup.

 

If Dalbec can continue to produce as he did after the All-Star break, then he can fill in for Devers if he leaves after 2023.

 

Casas appears to have 1B locked. He's giving no indication he can't do it.

 

Assuming Yorke continues to develop, he is our future 2B.

 

NEED A CATCHER.

 

Indeed.

 

We also have Mayer down the road, so Story, Mayer and Yorke up he middle. (Maybe Yorke changes positions.)

 

I realize many players begin at SS and move off position, but we seem to now have a backlog at 2B/SS, even if Bogey moves on from Boston. Maybe we trade one, perhaps with other pieces for a good young catcher. (Maybe we just extend Vaz.)

 

SS/2B in system

 

Bogey

Story

Arroyo

2. Mayer

3. Yorke

5. Downs

21. McDonough

22. Bonaci

24. Rafaela

25. Paulino

26. Hamilton

28. Lugo (higher in many team rankings)

31. Kos

38. Fitzy (may make ML club)

 

[mvp 78]

Indeed.

 

We also have Mayer down the road, so Story, Mayer and Yorke up he middle. (Maybe Yorke changes positions.)

 

I realize many players begin at SS and move off position, but we seem to now have a backlog at 2B/SS, even if Bogey moves on from Boston. Maybe we trade one, perhaps with other pieces for a good young catcher. (Maybe we just extend Vaz.)

 

SS/2B in system

 

Bogey

Story

Arroyo

2. Mayer

3. Yorke

5. Downs

21. McDonough

22. Bonaci

24. Rafaela

25. Paulino

26. Hamilton

28. Lugo (higher in many team rankings)

31. Kos

38. Fitzy (may make ML club)

 

 

It's best to have lots of redundancy up the middle. There's no guarantee that Mayer and Yorke make MLB. There's no guarantee that story stays healthy and productive. If the worst thing that happens is that you have 3 productive MLB guys for two positions, I think Bloom is smart enough to figure it out.

[moonslav59]

It's best to have lots of redundancy up the middle. There's no guarantee that Mayer and Yorke make MLB. There's no guarantee that story stays healthy and productive. If the worst thing that happens is that you have 3 productive MLB guys for two positions, I think Bloom is smart enough to figure it out.

 

I was thinking more about trading some lower redundancy- like Lugo, Bonaci or Downs.

 

We need a young catcher and OF'ers more than 7th sting SSs. That's not to downplay the need to have depth at 2B/SS.

[mvp 78]

I was thinking more about trading some lower redundancy- like Lugo, Bonaci or Downs.

 

We need a young catcher and OF'ers more than 7th sting SSs. That's not to downplay the need to have depth at 2B/SS.

 

If I'm going to look at the brighter side of things:

 

Ronaldo Hernandez - big arm, big bat, bad glove, could be a good fit pending on Robo zone, OPS'd 844 in AAA last year

Grullon - up and down depth guy

Kole Cottam - bad arm, average glove, OPS'd 863 in AA last year

Scott - need to see about current transition to C, but has a Ronaldo Hernandez type bat

Hickey - another bat first guy, fringe hit tool, but monster power

Lira - guy with the highest ceiling at the position in the organization, could be all around great C but is far away, will be fun to follow

 

I think this group is the strongest Sox have had since Vaz/Swihart were in the pipeline.

[Old Red]

I was thinking more about trading some lower redundancy- like Lugo, Bonaci or Downs.

 

We need a young catcher and OF'ers more than 7th sting SSs. That's not to downplay the need to have depth at 2B/SS.

 

I don’t think Downs, Lugo, or Bonaci will get you much, but it’s worth a try. It’s amazing at times the RedSox have had some great OF come up through the system, and then at other times the the pipeline has dried up. It wasn’t that many years ago that Mookie became an OF, and even Brock Holt got put out there along with Swihart, because of the lack of outfielders.

[moonslav59]

If I'm going to look at the brighter side of things:

 

Ronaldo Hernandez - big arm, big bat, bad glove, could be a good fit pending on Robo zone, OPS'd 844 in AAA last year

Grullon - up and down depth guy

Kole Cottam - bad arm, average glove, OPS'd 863 in AA last year

Scott - need to see about current transition to C, but has a Ronaldo Hernandez type bat

Hickey - another bat first guy, fringe hit tool, but monster power

Lira - guy with the highest ceiling at the position in the organization, could be all around great C but is far away, will be fun to follow

 

I think this group is the strongest Sox have had since Vaz/Swihart were in the pipeline.

 

No love for the best of 'em all?

 

WONG!

[mvp 78]

No love for the best of 'em all?

 

WONG!

 

He's already shown to be an up and down guy. I think he's the backup next year.

[Nick]

Last year, with Houck on more of a developmental path, the Red Sox structured his workload with an eye on the future.

 

This season, Houck’s role will be very much in the moment. And Cora hopes to be able to hand him the baseball every fifth day for six months.

 

“We’re getting close to getting the final product,” Cora said.

 

So many of you wanted him to be a reliever. Not happening.

 

Fans here baffle me. Bitch and complain about not producing starter. When one appears to be ready, you want to keep him in bullpen.

 

Anyone here ever compared the salaries paid to starters versus bullpen help? Do kids DREAM of becoming a reliever?

 

You can't have enough starters. They can ALWAYS relieve. See Sale and Eovaldi when the game matters. You don't put in a #5 reliever. You put a Eovaldi in.

 

Whitlock should start in 2023.

Edited March 26, 2022 by Nick

[Old Red]

Last year, with Houck on more of a developmental path, the Red Sox structured his workload with an eye on the future.

 

This season, Houck’s role will be very much in the moment. And Cora hopes to be able to hand him the baseball every fifth day for six months.

 

“We’re getting close to getting the final product,” Cora said.

 

So many of you wanted him to be a reliever. Not happening.

 

Fans here baffle me. Bitch and complain about not producing starter. When one appears to be ready, you want to keep him in bullpen.

 

Anyone here ever compared the salaries paid to starters versus bullpen help? Do kids DREAM of becoming a reliever?

 

You can't have enough starters. They can ALWAYS relieve. See Sale and Eovaldi when the game matters. You don't put in a #5 reliever. You put a Eovaldi in.

 

Whitlock should start in 2023.

 

I didn’t hear Cora say, but if Chris Frail hadn’t been hurt I don’t know if Houck would be starting the season in the starting rotation, and the same goes for Whitlock. The game has changed, which I think for the worse, but I don’t think the starters are as important as they used to be especially when they can’t go through the order for the 3rd time anymore.

[notin]

I didn’t hear Cora say, but if Chris Frail hadn’t been hurt I don’t know if Houck would be starting the season in the starting rotation, and the same goes for Whitlock. The game has changed, which I think for the worse, but I don’t think the starters are as important as they used to be especially when they can’t go through the order for the 3rd time anymore.

 

First, the 40 man roster is the only eligible players.

 

Second, many like for ERod, involved giving up a player with only 2 months left anyway…

[Kimmi]

Last year, with Houck on more of a developmental path, the Red Sox structured his workload with an eye on the future.

 

This season, Houck’s role will be very much in the moment. And Cora hopes to be able to hand him the baseball every fifth day for six months.

 

“We’re getting close to getting the final product,” Cora said.

 

So many of you wanted him to be a reliever. Not happening.

 

Fans here baffle me. Bitch and complain about not producing starter. When one appears to be ready, you want to keep him in bullpen.

 

Anyone here ever compared the salaries paid to starters versus bullpen help? Do kids DREAM of becoming a reliever?

 

You can't have enough starters. They can ALWAYS relieve. See Sale and Eovaldi when the game matters. You don't put in a #5 reliever. You put a Eovaldi in.

 

Whitlock should start in 2023.

 

I get why people want to keep Houck and Whitlock in the pen, especially Whitlock. I would not be unhappy if they both remained in the pen. That said, I agree with you. Starters are much more valuable and harder to find than relievers, even in this day when the role of starting pitchers is diminishing. Houck and Whitlock should both be given an opportunity as starters.

[Larry Cook]

I get why people want to keep Houck and Whitlock in the pen, especially Whitlock. I would not be unhappy if they both remained in the pen. That said, I agree with you. Starters are much more valuable and harder to find than relievers, even in this day when the role of starting pitchers is diminishing. Houck and Whitlock should both be given an opportunity as starters.

 

Let’s see, do I want to see Whitlock or Robles coming out of the bullpen in the 8th inning with us having a one run lead, one out and a man on second base?

 

I think we all know the answer to that!

 

The bullpen is shaping up to be our version of a black hole!

[moonslav59]

I get why people want to keep Houck and Whitlock in the pen, especially Whitlock. I would not be unhappy if they both remained in the pen. That said, I agree with you. Starters are much more valuable and harder to find than relievers, even in this day when the role of starting pitchers is diminishing. Houck and Whitlock should both be given an opportunity as starters.

 

They both will.

 

Cora has a way with maximizing weak to mediocre pens, but I'm not sure how much longer we can ask for that to continue.

[moonslav59]

Starter or potential Sox starter ST'ing numbers:

 

0.00 R Hill (5 IP)

0.00 Whitlock (5 IP)

2.57 Eovaldi (7 IP)

2.57 Wacha (7)

2.79 Pivetta (6.2)

7.20 Houck (5)

[Kimmi]

Let’s see, do I want to see Whitlock or Robles coming out of the bullpen in the 8th inning with us having a one run lead, one out and a man on second base?

 

I think we all know the answer to that!

 

The bullpen is shaping up to be our version of a black hole!

 

I hear you on rather seeing Whitlock than Robles coming in for the 8th inning. As I said, I would not be unhappy if he remained in the pen. OTOH, what if Whitlock is as effective as a starter as he is as a reliever? We'd rather see him getting the start every 5th day over many other candidates.

[SCM33]

Eovaldi goes one season without getting hurt for the first time in eight years and now people think he’s immune?? And got 8 years left?

 

Good post. Eovaldi is a big game pitcher, but injury prone.

[Larry Cook]

I hear you on rather seeing Whitlock than Robles coming in for the 8th inning. As I said, I would not be unhappy if he remained in the pen. OTOH, what if Whitlock is as effective as a starter as he is as a reliever? We'd rather see him getting the start every 5th day over many other candidates.

 

Actually Whitlock has a better chance as a starter than houck. Houck only has two pitches and Whitlock has three.

[moonslav59]

Actually Whitlock has a better chance as a starter than houck. Houck only has two pitches and Whitlock has three.

 

I've never heard this, before.

 

(sarcasm alert)

[Larry Cook]

I've never heard this, before.

 

(sarcasm alert)

 

You are trying to “hear” on an internet board?

[moonslav59]

You are trying to “hear” on an internet board?

 

I hear you loud and clear.