2022 Starting Rotation Thread

[Old Red]

Renfroe had a good year with the stick, no one is arguing that.

 

For people who get hung up on RBI I like to point out these stats from the 2007 Red Sox:

 

Pedroia .317 BA 50 RBI

Lugo .237 BA 73 RBI

 

I’m not hung up so much on 96 RBI only to say that 96 RBI is not a mediocre bat just like I wouldn’t say Pedroia’s 50 was bad.

[notin]

Without Renfroe, and his 96 RBI last year the Sox wouldn’t have made the post season. 96 RBI is not mediocre even in todays analytics world, and that all I was saying. Schwaber is not a RBI guy, which I have mentioned more than once on here, and I’m glad he is long gone. Never would have been a replacement for JD.

 

Pretty sure you could say the same without Schwarber and his .957 OPS…

[Old Red]

Renfroe drove in 17% of all runners on base when he came up, which is pretty good. Schwarber drove in 14%, which is ok.

 

Of course, Schwarber also came up with 100 fewer runners on, and the breakdown of their bases could be a factor…

 

All I was responding to was saying losing Schwaber’s bat was a monster bat, but losing Renfroe’s bat was just a mediocre bat based off last year, and I thought Renfroe’s bat was more than mediocre. I was well aware that they batted in different positions in the order, but that had nothing to do to me with only saying Renfroe was mediocre.

[notin]

Not with a shortened version this year.

 

I’m not hung up so much on 96 RBI only to say that 96 RBI is not a mediocre bat just like I wouldn’t say Pedroia’s 50 was bad.

 

Renfroe drive in 17% of all runners on base when he was up, which is very good. Schwarber only drove in 14%, which is about average. Of course, Schwarber excelled at being on base for others to drive in. Without anyone on base, Renfroe ain’t getting those 96 RBIs…

[Old Red]

Pretty sure you could say the same without Schwarber and his .957 OPS…

 

You could have said that about anyone on the team. The margin of error was razor thin, and everyone contributed. Schwaber, and his .957 OPS had nothing to do with if Renfroe’s bat was mediocre or not.

[Old Red]

Renfroe drive in 17% of all runners on base when he was up, which is very good. Schwarber only drove in 14%, which is about average. Of course, Schwarber excelled at being on base for others to drive in. Without anyone on base, Renfroe ain’t getting those 96 RBIs…

 

Without anyone on base no one would get a RBI without hitting a HR whether it was Ted, Yaz, Manny, or Ortiz. Great point!

[Larry Cook]

If dalbec has a sophomore leap, theoretically he could pick up some of the slack caused by the loss of monster bat schwarber and mediocre bat Renfro.

 

How does this lineup replace the rest of the missing production?

[moonslav59]

If dalbec has a sophomore leap, theoretically he could pick up some of the slack caused by the loss of monster bat schwarber and mediocre bat Renfro.

 

How does this lineup replace the rest of the missing production?

 

We did go most of the season without Schwarber, Iggy and Shaw, but losing Renfroe will be a full season loss. Losing Marwin, Santana, Chavis and others will not be missed.

 

Here's the scoop:

 

2021

PAs Player OPS

572 Renfroe .816

271 Marwin .567

168 Schwarber .957

136 Cordero .497 (still in system)

127 Santana .597

82 Chavis .549

75 Arauz .643 (still in system)

64 Iggy .915

16 Lopez .522

11 Munoz .182

7 Motter 1.262

 

718 PAs from players under .645

 

811 PAs from players over .815

 

Who takes up the slack of the mix and matched 1500 PAs?

 

Assuming good health:

 

450 JBJ

225 Casas

300 more from Arroyo (181>481)

250 more from Duran (112>362)

100 more from Dalbec (453>553)

75 more from Kike (585>660)

50 more from Bogey (603>653)

50 more from Shaw (48>98)

 

[notin]

You could have said that about anyone on the team. The margin of error was razor thin, and everyone contributed. Schwaber, and his .957 OPS had nothing to do with if Renfroe’s bat was mediocre or not.

 

Ok, but you singled out Renfroe as someone the Sox wouldn’t have made the postseason without. Apparently everyone and not just Renfroe deserves that accolade…

[notin]

If dalbec has a sophomore leap, theoretically he could pick up some of the slack caused by the loss of monster bat schwarber and mediocre bat Renfro.

 

How does this lineup replace the rest of the missing production?

 

Dalbec was an absolute monster from mid-June until the end of the year…

[Old Red]

Ok, but you singled out Renfroe as someone the Sox wouldn’t have made the postseason without. Apparently everyone and not just Renfroe deserves that accolade…

 

I singled out Renfroe just to say his bat was more than just mediocre last year.

[notin]

I singled out Renfroe just to say his bat was more than just mediocre last year.

 

 

And I agree he wasn’t mediocre. He was a very pleasant surprise.

 

But so was Schwarber, who I agree with the OP was a monster. Just because he didn’t drive in runs from the leadoff spot doesn’t mean anything. Schwarber did everything the Sox needed him to offensively…

[Larry Cook]

We did go most of the season without Schwarber, Iggy and Shaw, but losing Renfroe will be a full season loss. Losing Marwin, Santana, Chavis and others will not be missed.

 

Here's the scoop:

 

2021

PAs Player OPS

572 Renfroe .816

271 Marwin .567

168 Schwarber .957

136 Cordero .497 (still in system)

127 Santana .597

82 Chavis .549

75 Arauz .643 (still in system)

64 Iggy .915

16 Lopez .522

11 Munoz .182

7 Motter 1.262

 

718 PAs from players under .645

 

811 PAs from players over .815

 

Who takes up the slack of the mix and matched 1500 PAs?

 

Assuming good health:

 

450 JBJ

225 Casas

300 more from Arroyo (181>481)

250 more from Duran (112>362)

100 more from Dalbec (453>553)

75 more from Kike (585>660)

50 more from Bogey (603>653)

50 more from Shaw (48>98)

 

 

I agree that dalbec should have a sophomore leap and I think he can get to .575.

 

Bogey should be killing it from day 1, as he can make a fortune if he kills it this year. Look for his numbers to be better then last year all the way around!

 

Bradley is a huge defensive improvement over Renfro in right field, but his bat his really bad. He is so afraid of pitches on the inside part of the plate, that it has locked up his ability to hit.

 

Hernandez, I agree should be better this year after having seen the league last year.

 

Arroyo, Shaw and Duran, I don’t know that we can count on them for much of anything this year.

 

Cassas is a wild card. He probably will not hit for power, but he will get on base and drive in runs. When does make his debut in Fenway? Can dalbec and arroyo split time at second base when cassas does arrive?

 

Not mentioned, but very important is what kind of regression do we see from Martinez. His bat speed fell off a noticeable bit last year and that will continue this year!

[Swiharts Ghost]

Think it’s time to call The As about the M &M

[mvp 78]

Think it’s time to call The As about the M &M

 

Price will be high since every other team has called them as well.

[moonslav59]

Price will be high since every other team has called them as well.

Montas has 2 years remaining. They may wait to trade him.

 

If we do trade, I hope we get Trivino added to the deal.

[mvp 78]

Montas has 2 years remaining. They may wait to trade him.

 

If we do trade, I hope we get Trivino added to the deal.

 

TalkSox's love for Trivino can't be overstated. Simps.

[moonslav59]

TalkSox's love for Trivino can't be overstated. Simps.

 

We have no clear closer, so adding him to the mix can't hurt.

 

Many of us have seemed to pump him up way beyond his BTV value.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Think it’s time to call The As about the M &M

 

Sox have three top infielders and Yankees have two shortstops in the top 60 MLB prospect list. Something's gotta give...

[mvp 78]

We have no clear closer, so adding him to the mix can't hurt.

 

Many of us have seemed to pump him up way beyond his BTV value.

 

Yes.

[moonslav59]

So...

 

1. Eovaldi

2. Houck

3. Pivetta

4. Hill

5. Wacha

(IL: Sale & Paxton)

Depth: Whitlock, Seabold, Crawford, Winckowski, Bello

[mvp 78]

So...

 

1. Eovaldi

2. Houck

3. Pivetta

4. Hill

5. Wacha

(IL: Sale & Paxton)

Depth: Whitlock, Seabold, Crawford, Winckowski, Bello

 

Now that they are over, they should bring in Zach Davies on a 1 year deal.

[moonslav59]

MLBTR has these pitchers still on the market:

 

Jose Alvarez RP

Brett Anderson SP

Chris Archer SP

Jake Arrieta SP

Dellin Betances RP

Brad Brach RP

Trevor Cahill SP

Tyler Clippard RP

Johnny Cueto SP

John Curtiss RP

Zach Davies SP

Ross Detwiler RP

Chris Devenski RP

Rafael Dolis RP

Oliver Drake RP

Thomas Eshelman SP

Luke Farrell RP

Mike Fiers SP

Mike Foltynewicz SP

Jesse Hahn RP

J.A. Happ SP

Ryne Harper RP

Matt Harvey SP

Tommy Hunter RP

Brandon Kintzler RP

Wade LeBlanc SP

Evan Marshall RP

Andrew Miller RP

Blake Parker RP

Yusmeiro Petit RP

Nick Ramirez RP

Richard Rodriguez RP

Sergio Romo RP

Trevor Rosenthal RP

Edgar Santana RP

Hunter Strickland RP

Wander Suero RP

Josh Tomlin RP

Jose Urena SP

Tony Watson RP

Brandon Workman RP

[vegasbob]

Wow , 40 pitchers a few of who tormented the Red Sox in prior years with their junkball pitching : Happ and LeBlanc anyway. A few years ago, a bullpen with Betances, Miller and Workman would have been considered tough to beat. Archer, Arrieta, Cueto and Harvey could have been a strong group of starters.

 

Time is the great leveller of talent

[moonslav59]

Who gets the most innings from these groups:

 

A) Eovaldi or Pivetta

 

Houck or Whitlock

 

C) Sale or Paxton

 

D) Wacha or Hill

 

E) Barnes, Diekman, Taylor or Brasier

 

F) Strahm, Davis, DHern, Robles or Sawamura

 

G) Crawford, Seabold, Winckowski or Bello

 

H) Valdez, Holland, Bazardo

 

 

[Larry Cook]

Who gets the most innings from these groups:

 

A) Eovaldi or Pivetta

 

Houck or Whitlock

 

C) Sale or Paxton

 

D) Wacha or Hill

 

E) Barnes, Diekman, Taylor or Brasier

 

F) Strahm, Davis, DHern, Robles or Sawamura

 

G) Crawford, Seabold, Winckowski or Bello

 

H) Valdez, Holland, Bazardo

 

 

 

D Hernandez looked good today. If he can throw strikes, he can have a monster season!

[notin]

TalkSox's love for Trivino can't be overstated. Simps.

 

I, for one, have been overstating it…

[notin]

MLBTR has these pitchers still on the market:

 

Jose Alvarez RP

Brett Anderson SP

Chris Archer SP

Jake Arrieta SP

Dellin Betances RP

Brad Brach RP

Trevor Cahill SP

Tyler Clippard RP

Johnny Cueto SP

John Curtiss RP

Zach Davies SP

Ross Detwiler RP

Chris Devenski RP

Rafael Dolis RP

Oliver Drake RP

Thomas Eshelman SP

Luke Farrell RP

Mike Fiers SP

Mike Foltynewicz SP

Jesse Hahn RP

J.A. Happ SP

Ryne Harper RP

Matt Harvey SP

Tommy Hunter RP

Brandon Kintzler RP

Wade LeBlanc SP

Evan Marshall RP

Andrew Miller RP

Blake Parker RP

Yusmeiro Petit RP

Nick Ramirez RP

Richard Rodriguez RP

Sergio Romo RP

Trevor Rosenthal RP

Edgar Santana RP

Hunter Strickland RP

Wander Suero RP

Josh Tomlin RP

Jose Urena SP

Tony Watson RP

Brandon Workman RP

 

1. Oliver Drake has quietly shown he can pitch

2. Jose Urena has the makings of a potential dominant reliever, or a phenomenal underachiever as a starter. Don’t sign him to start…

[moonslav59]

D Hernandez looked good today. If he can throw strikes, he can have a monster season!

 

Heard this for years.

[mvp 78]

Who gets the most innings from these groups:

 

A) Eovaldi or Pivetta

Houck or Whitlock

 

C) Sale or Paxton

 

D) Wacha or Hill

 

E) Barnes, Diekman, Taylor or Brasier

 

F) Strahm, Davis, DHern, Robles or Sawamura

 

G) Crawford, Seabold, Winckowski or Bello

 

H) Valdez, Holland, Bazardo

 

 

 

D is probably the hardest to pick. I think Hill lasts longer in the rotation, but sees significant DL/IL time.