2022 Starting Rotation Thread

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I didn’t hear Cora say, but if Chris Frail hadn’t been hurt I don’t know if Houck would be starting the season in the starting rotation, and the same goes for Whitlock. The game has changed, which I think for the worse, but I don’t think the starters are as important as they used to be especially when they can’t go through the order for the 3rd time anymore.

 

Some guys can't, as in aren't capable, but others just aren't allowed to -- forbidden by the analytics department. Did anyone who watched Houck's perfect game in Washington think he couldn't go back out there for the 6th inning? I'll bet if you ask any of the National batters that day, none were unhappy when Cora yanked him.

 

But we're only talking five innings here, not Pedro whenever he reached the 100 pitch count. The path to a pitch count total also matters; in Game Seven of the '03 ALCS, Pedro needed 21 high-stress pitches to escape the 7th inning with a 4-2 lead. He had given up a ground-out, liner, home run and two singles before finally fanning Soriano with the tying runs on base. Martinez finished the frame at exactly 100 pitches... he was done.

[Bellhorn04]

One thing about "third time through the order" metrics is that they're extremely simple.

 

Here are the MLB splits for all starting pitchers in 2021:

 

1st PA .708

2nd PA .747

3rd PA .780

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

One thing about "third time through the order" metrics is that they're extremely simple.

 

Here are the MLB splits for all starting pitchers in 2021:

 

1st PA .708

2nd PA .747

3rd PA .780

 

There's no disputing the numbers, but sometimes when a guy is on a roll, a manager should be able to use his own discretion...

 

... like when Rich Hill's working on a one-hit World Series shutout in the 7th, just struck out Nunez on three pitches, and the boys upstairs are telling you he's done? He can't face Brock Freaking Holt?

[Bellhorn04]

There's no disputing the numbers, but sometimes when a guy is on a roll, a manager should be able to use his own discretion...

 

... like when Rich Hill's working on a one-hit World Series shutout in the 7th, just struck out Nunez on three pitches, and the boys upstairs are telling you he's done? He can't face Brock Freaking Holt?

 

I feel the same way when it happens. I couldn't believe Cash took Snell out...

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I feel the same way when it happens. I couldn't believe Cash took Snell out...

 

The Rays had to trade Snell, because anyone that works for that franchise still can't look him in the eyes; he had already struck out the next three scheduled batters in all six of their at bats.

 

As a Sox fan, the scariest thing about Bloom for me is that he still defends that move, as if he were still a part of that office...

[notin]

The Rays had to trade Snell, because anyone that works for that franchise still can't look him in the eyes; he had already struck out the next three scheduled batters in all six of their at bats.

 

As a Sox fan, the scariest thing about Bloom for me is that he still defends that move, as if he were still a part of that office...

 

 

Defends what? Taking Snell out or trading Snell?

 

The Rays traded Snell for the exact same reason they traded a lot of other players - straight up cost savings. Sometimes they do it before a player gets too expensive because 1) it’s easier to trade him then and 2) you get better return packages.

 

If Bloom still supports taking Snell out in the WS, who cares? Great, he stands up for his manager. But taking Snell out was never his call. Even if he pushed Cash to do it, what was he going to do if Cash didn’t listen?

 

But even after the Stiry signing, you still cling to the Tampa Bay North mantra…

[mvp 78]

The Rays had to trade Snell, because anyone that works for that franchise still can't look him in the eyes; he had already struck out the next three scheduled batters in all six of their at bats.

 

As a Sox fan, the scariest thing about Bloom for me is that he still defends that move, as if he were still a part of that office...

 

Blake Snell is going to go down as one of the most overrated pitchers of this generation.

[moonslav59]

Blake Snell is going to go down as one of the most overrated pitchers of this generation.

 

Not if he keeps sucking.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Defends what? Taking Snell out or trading Snell?

 

The Rays traded Snell for the exact same reason they traded a lot of other players - straight up cost savings. Sometimes they do it before a player gets too expensive because 1) it’s easier to trade him then and 2) you get better return packages.

 

If Bloom still supports taking Snell out in the WS, who cares? Great, he stands up for his manager. But taking Snell out was never his call. Even if he pushed Cash to do it, what was he going to do if Cash didn’t listen?

 

But even after the Stiry signing, you still cling to the Tampa Bay North mantra…

 

It really doesn't matter if it was Cash or Cash's bosses that forced him to yank Snell, the fact is that Bloom defended the move that ultimately led to the Rays' losing the World Series.

 

But even in a discussion on a decision that most of the baseball world agree was wrong, you still cling to the other opinion just so you can argue on the forum.

 

What was your personal opinion of the move at the time?

[Bellhorn04]

Not if he keeps sucking.

 

Good one LOL

[mvp 78]

It really doesn't matter if it was Cash or Cash's bosses that forced him to yank Snell, the fact is that Bloom defended the move that ultimately led to the Rays' losing the World Series.

 

But even in a discussion on a decision that most of the baseball world agree was wrong, you still cling to the other opinion just so you can argue on the forum.

 

What was your personal opinion of the move at the time?

 

The Rays scored 1 run the whole game. Not only has Snell never thrown a shutout in his career, he's never thrown a complete game. Snell's longest start in 2020 was 5.2 innings. He was pulled at 5.1. At some point they would have handed that game over to the pen anyway.

[jacksonianmarch]

Ultimately, this is about the sox rotation and what is their depth now that Sale is going to be out of action for awhile? Their pen is also kinda awry as well with some upheaval and the possibility that you'll need to move your best pen arms into the rotation

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Ultimately, this is about the sox rotation and what is their depth now that Sale is going to be out of action for awhile? Their pen is also kinda awry as well with some upheaval and the possibility that you'll need to move your best pen arms into the rotation

 

Bummer the Sox didn't make today's MLB.com's top 15 starting staffs... but then there was another article wondering if Boston's rotation might be underrated...

 

The only thing we know for sure is that every team every year uses the same two words every single preseason when talking pitching: "if" and "healthy."

[moonslav59]

Ultimately, this is about the sox rotation and what is their depth now that Sale is going to be out of action for awhile? Their pen is also kinda awry as well with some upheaval and the possibility that you'll need to move your best pen arms into the rotation

 

Yes, Houck and Whitlock are the starter depth. Maybe Winckowski, Crawford or Seabold can surprise, but as of now, the two guys from the pen are it.

 

Cora has worked wonders with suspect pens, so maybe he can keep that mojo going.

[Bellhorn04]

Yes, Houck and Whitlock are the starter depth. Maybe Winckowski, Crawford or Seabold can surprise, but as of now, the two guys from the pen are it.

 

Cora has worked wonders with suspect pens, so maybe he can keep that mojo going.

 

Jax is up to his old tricks, trying to make us nervous.

[mvp 78]

Two guys from the pen?

 

Houck:

 

G 21

GS 16

 

Over 75% of Houck's appearances have been in the rotation. He's a starter. He's been a starter.

[moonslav59]

Two guys from the pen?

 

Houck:

 

G 21

GS 16

 

Over 75% of Houck's appearances have been in the rotation. He's a starter. He's been a starter.

 

If Sale was starting, would Houck be in the initial starting 5?

 

IMO, he was slated for the pen, until Sale got hurt.

[mvp 78]

https://nesn.com/2022/03/red-sox-prospect-outlook-jay-groome-new-look-2022-breakout/

 

Jay Groome poised for breakout in 2022?

[mvp 78]

If Sale was starting, would Houck be in the initial starting 5?

 

IMO, he was slated for the pen, until Sale got hurt.

 

I've said all along that one of the two should be in the rotation. The Sox are going with Houck, for now.

[mvp 78]

@NBCSEdgeBB

Chris Sale (ribs) to resume throwing next week

[Bellhorn04]

If Sale was starting, would Houck be in the initial starting 5?

 

IMO, he was slated for the pen, until Sale got hurt.

 

Sure, he was the #6 starter, which meant he would be starting sooner or later, and to no one's surprise, it's sooner.

[Bellhorn04]

@NBCSEdgeBB

Chris Sale (ribs) to resume throwing next week

 

Sounds encouraging?

[moonslav59]

Sure, he was the #6 starter, which meant he would be starting sooner or later, and to no one's surprise it's sooner.

 

Exactly, but I do think saying he was moved from the pen to the rotation was accurate.

[mvp 78]

Sure, he was the #6 starter, which meant he would be starting sooner or later, and to no one's surprise, it's sooner.

 

When the starters include Eovaldi, Sale, Hill, Wacha and Paxton it will ALWAYS be sooner.

[moonslav59]

Sounds encouraging?

 

But, won't throwing the ball increase the risk of another injury?

[mvp 78]

Sounds encouraging?

 

Maybe get him back into the rotation in early May?

[Bellhorn04]

Exactly, but I do think saying he was moved from the pen to the rotation was accurate.

 

Accurate with an asterisk.

[moonslav59]

Accurate with an asterisk.

 

Do they have a head scratcher emoji?

[Bellhorn04]

Do they have a head scratcher emoji?

 

No, but you have a head scratcher avatar.

[Old Red]

If Sale was starting, would Houck be in the initial starting 5?

 

IMO, he was slated for the pen, until Sale got hurt.

 

I think the starting rotation was set before the lockout began, and both Houck, and Whitlock would have started in the pen, but Chris Frail getting hurt changed all that, and Houck should get a good chance in the rotation now. Then depending on what happens until Frail gets back it will be a 3 man battle for two spots.