A Realistic View at 2021: Part II

[moonslav59]

I remember posters saying we should bench or demote Renfrew.

[Nick]

Kike with another unclutch at bat....

 

Moon and I can be friends....we'd drink and talk s*** about the Sox.

 

Every time I bring up something negative about Kike, Moon, correctly, tells me that Kike is doing what's he's always done. Kike was a utility player for the Dodgers.

 

This signing felt like it was pushed by Cora. The two knew each other from Puerto Rico.

 

2 questions.

 

1. Given Kike's background, why did the Sox think he was a starter material and capable leading off?

2 His $7M would place him as the 2nd highest paid player for the Rays. Do you honestly think the Rays would have signed him to a 2 year $14M deal?

Edited June 2, 2021 by Nick

[Nick]

I remember posters saying we should bench or demote Renfrew.

 

I'm pretty sure I was one of them.....I have right to change my mind, rather quickly.

[a700hitter]

Brandon Workman opts out of Minor League deal

WWW.MLB.COM

---

HOUSTON -- By leaving Triple-A Worcester on Tuesday, reliever Brandon Workman appears ready to exercise his opt-out clause and become a free agent if the Red Sox don’t call him up. The Red Sox have 48 hours to either call Workman up or grant him free agency. It will be

[iortiz]

Kike with another unclutch at bat....

 

Moon and I can be friends....we'd drink and talk s*** about the Sox.

 

Every time I bring up something negative about Kike, Moon, correctly, tells me that Kike is doing what's he's always done. Kike was a utility player for the Dodgers.

 

This signing felt like it was pushed by Cora. The two knew each other from Puerto Rico.

 

2 questions.

 

1. Given Kike's background, why did the Sox think he was a starter material and capable leading off?

2 His $7M would place him as the 2nd highest paid player for the Rays. Do you honestly think the Rays would have signed him to a 2 year $14M deal?

 

1. I still don’t know.

 

2. Hell no.

 

Kike is nothing but a utility player. Call him a very good one if you want but a utility player in the end. Tampa do not even pay that much for titular players.

 

They need to stop the Kike experiment as lesdoff already.

[moonslav59]

I'm pretty sure I was one of them.....I have right to change my mind, rather quickly.

 

I only wish Kike would start changing some minds.

[dgalehouse]

Brandon Workman opts out of Minor League deal

WWW.MLB.COM

---

HOUSTON -- By leaving Triple-A Worcester on Tuesday, reliever Brandon Workman appears ready to exercise his opt-out clause and become a free agent if the Red Sox don’t call him up. The Red Sox have 48 hours to either call Workman up or grant him free agency. It will be

 

They should bring him up. He has to be better than some of the current crew. If they don't sign him , someone else will.

[Nick]

Both Brasier and Workman would need a spot on 40 man roster. Assuming Colten Brewer is one spot, who is the other one? Valdez or Andriese?

[oldtimer]

The question was asked what would happen if our primary hitters went into a bit of a slump. The concern being we had little from our leadoff and little from our 7 through 9 hitters. Well, Verdugo is hitting, Renfrow is coming on and Vaz still gets his hits but Dalbec is slumping, Gonzales hasn't done much and Kike doesn't look like a lead off hitter. Some of the experiments haven't worked out. Cordero is in the minors.

 

The hope that I have had is that Bloom and Cora would recognize that we have weaknesses and attempt to shore up those areas before we drop from our good record to a middle of the road team. Our hope would apparently lie with Duran and Casas who are currently unavailable at the Olympic Qualifiers. That pair might help or be a bust but I would have liked to see if they could help. Duran went 0 for 4 last night was Casas was 2 for 4 with a double in a second win.

 

There is still time for the Sox and our quality hitters won't slump for long, but it might be time for Cora to rethink his lineup. Maybe Bloom can look outside.

[moonslav59]

Both Brasier and Workman would need a spot on 40 man roster. Assuming Colten Brewer is one spot, who is the other one? Valdez or Andriese?

 

Maybe Andriese on the 26 man roster but not the 40.

 

The leading candidates for being cut off the 40 are...

 

Brennan

 

Wilson

 

Or move someone to the 60 day IL.

 

[moonslav59]

Marwin has been horrific at the plate from start to finish.

 

He seems to get a free pass from fans and Cora.

 

Just how long a leash does this guy get?

 

I know him he and Cora go way back, and his defense up till last night has been fine, but still...

 

He has more PAs than Renfroe & Dalbec and almost as much as Arroyo, Plawecki & Chavis combined...

 

.554 OPS

 

.537 May

 

.504 last 4 weeks

 

.195 last 2 weeks

 

He’s not getting better.

[Bellhorn04]

Marwin has been horrific at the plate from start to finish.

 

He seems to get a free pass from fans and Cora.

 

f*** you, Marwin! Grab some pine.

 

There, that's a start.

[Nick]

Marwin has been horrific at the plate from start to finish.

 

He seems to get a free pass from fans and Cora.

 

Just how long a leash does this guy get?

 

I know him he and Cora go way back, and his defense up till last night has been fine, but still...

 

He has more PAs than Renfroe & Dalbec and almost as much as Arroyo, Plawecki & Chavis combined...

 

.554 OPS

 

.537 May

 

.504 last 4 weeks

 

.195 last 2 weeks

 

He’s not getting better.

 

I fully agree.

 

It's about making the team better.

 

He's a utility player that's getting full time playing time.

 

Bringing up Duran would solve some of Marwin's playing time. It would force Cora to play Kike at 2B more. I thought Kike was brought in to play 2B.

 

If it doesn't work out with Duran, send him back down. What's the big f***ing deal? He may surprise all of us.

 

Constant crap I heard from majority of this board was "WE LEAD THE LEAGUE IN RUNS SCORED PER GAME". It was obvious not everyone was carrying their weight even when things are going well. When 2-6 with Renfroe in May was carrying the team, it's okay to close your eyes to weak spots? Why not work on stretching out the lineup?

We took the first step with sending Cordero to the minors.

 

This is NOT a completed team. I'd think they would look to make improvements, no matter how small.

 

It's possible Duran can give us a shot in the arm not only in CF but perhaps leading off.

 

Kike from lead off spot ranks 10th or 11th in AL in runs scored, OBP, and OPS. It just seems Cora is being stubborn with this because he proclaimed to the world, Kike is my leadoff hitter. He has NEVER been a leadoff hitter.

 

Kike is tied for 5th, as a leadoff hitter, in runs scored for the Sox. Let that sink in. Mookie Bets scored 128 runs to lead the Sox in 2018.

 

Chavis' .751 OPS doesn't seem bad.

Edited June 2, 2021 by Nick

[Bellhorn04]

I fully agree.

 

It's about making the team better.

 

He's a utility player that's getting full time playing time.

 

Bringing up Duran would solve some of Marwin's playing time. It would force Cora to play Kike at 2B more. I thought Kike was brought in to play 2B.

 

If it doesn't work out with Duran, send him back down. What's the big f***ing deal? He may surprise all of us.

 

Constant crap I heard from majority of this board was "WE LEAD THE LEAGUE IN RUNS SCORED PER GAME". It was obvious not everyone was carrying their weight even when things are going well. When 2-6 with Renfroe in May was carrying the team, it's okay to close your eyes to weak spots? Why not work on stretching out the lineup?

We took the first step with sending Cordero to the minors.

 

This is NOT a completed team. I'd think they would look to make improvements, no matter how small.

 

It's possible Duran can give us a shot in the arm not only in CF but perhaps leading off.

 

Kike from lead off spot ranks 10th or 11th in AL in runs scored, OBP, and OPS. It just seems Cora is being stubborn with this because he proclaimed to the world, Kike is my leadoff hitter. He has NEVER been a leadoff hitter.

 

Kike is tied for 5th, as a leadoff hitter, in runs scored for the Sox. Let that sink in. Mookie Bets scored 128 runs to lead the Sox in 2018.

 

Chavis' .751 OPS doesn't seem bad.

 

They already made one attempted upgrade by replacing Cordero with Santana.

 

Duran is now with the Olympic team.

 

Cora said Duran needs to get at-bats.

 

Duran has played 18 games above AA.

 

He posted a .634 OPS in his only AA season, in 2019.

 

I think Cora is probably right.

[Bellhorn04]

Kike from lead off spot ranks 10th or 11th in AL in runs scored, OBP, and OPS. It just seems Cora is being stubborn with this because he proclaimed to the world, Kike is my leadoff hitter. He has NEVER been a leadoff hitter.

 

Kike is tied for 5th, as a leadoff hitter, in runs scored for the Sox. Let that sink in. Mookie Bets scored 128 runs to lead the Sox in 2018.

 

Coincidentally, Mookie is tied for 4th on the Dodgers in runs scored this year with a paltry 27.

[Bellhorn04]

We all knew Bloom was working on a small budget this offseason, signing guys like Kike and Marwin as our 'big acquisitions' for position players.

 

Blame it on who you want, I guess.

[Nick]

Coincidentally, Mookie is tied for 4th on the Dodgers in runs scored this year with a paltry 27.

 

2018 OPS

Betts 1.078

JD 1.031

Xander .883

Beni .830

Pearce .901 (50 games, 136 bats)

 

2021

JD .956

Devers .927

Xander .919

Verdugo .813

 

 

We need someone that gets on base from the leadoff spot. Fix it.

[Nick]

We all knew Bloom was working on a small budget this offseason, signing guys like Kike and Marwin as our 'big acquisitions' for position players.

 

Blame it on who you want, I guess.

 

Look, I love Cora and Bloom. They are doing great job.

 

I'm just a fan that want the Sox get into the playoffs.

 

It helps me to let some steam out of my keyboards.

 

I like this team, I like Kike and Marwin. Marwin has had some tough outs lately.

 

Cordero was sent down, Dalbec (boy do I want him to win the 1B job) is beginning to sit down little more, deservedly. The team is making adjustments.

 

It's looking as thought Renfroe is a keeper, a 29 year old with some pop, strong throwing arm, 2nd year of 4 year arbitration.

Edited June 2, 2021 by Nick

[Nick]

Can our pitching staff look like this before its all over?

 

1 Sale

2 Richards

3 E Rod

4 Pivetta

5 Perez

6 Eovaldi

7 Barnes

8 Ottavino

9 Darwinzon

10 Sawamura

11 Brasier

12 Workman

13 Taylor

14 Whitlock

[Bellhorn04]

2018 OPS

Betts 1.078

JD 1.031

Xander .883

Beni .830

Pearce .901 (50 games, 136 bats)

 

2021

JD .956

Devers .927

Xander .919

Verdugo .813

 

 

We need someone that gets on base from the leadoff spot. Fix it.

 

Well, we can certainly shuffle the lineup. But do you think it would have made a big difference the last 2 games if we did?

[Nick]

Well, we can certainly shuffle the lineup. But do you think it would have made a big difference the last 2 games if we did?

 

Absolutely NOT.

 

I've been talking about KIke leading off for over a month.

 

It's also possible there's NO SOLUTION to this with our current roster.

 

But, I also don't want the Sox to think Verdugo, JD, Xander and Devers are enough to carry this team all year. Luckily Renfroe has joined the group.

 

Why not try to extend the lineup? I'm leaning towards Dalbec experiment as full time 1B for next ten years not working out despite my high hopes for the guy. Not this year anyway.

 

I also remember before the Sale trade with White Sox, so many here argued AGAINST bringing up Moncada to the majors. All I heard was HE IS NOT READY. IT WOULD DAMAGE HIM IF HE FAILED. DD was not afraid to bring up kids from AA. That was his thing. They also knew then, there was a kid that could be better 3B than Moncada. Remember that Moncada was blocked at 2B, we had Pedey.

 

Moncada seems to have overcome to whatever damage Sox inflicted on him. His OPS is above .900.

 

My point then and now is why not turn every rock and see if you can find a gem.

 

Duran today is not the same player from 2019. He's bigger and stronger. All you can do is send him back down if he fails. I would bet he'll do better than Marwin, thus moving Kike full time to 2B. Platoon at 1B and our lineup could be solid.

Edited June 2, 2021 by Nick

[oldtimer]

Absolutely NOT.

 

I've been talking about KIke leading off for over a month.

 

It's also possible there's NO SOLUTION to this with our current roster.

 

But, I also don't want the Sox to think Verdugo, JD, Xander and Devers are enough to carry this team all year. Luckily Renfroe has joined the group.

 

Why not try to extend the lineup? I'm leaning towards Dalbec experiment as full time 1B for next ten years not working out despite my high hopes for the guy. Not this year anyway.

 

I also remember before the Sale trade with White Sox, so many here argued AGAINST bringing up Moncada to the majors. All I heard was HE IS NOT READY. IT WOULD DAMAGE HIM IF HE FAILED. DD was not afraid to bring up kids from AA. That was his thing. They also knew then, there was a kid that could be better 3B than Moncada. Remember that Moncada was blocked at 2B, we had Pedey.

 

Moncada seems to have overcome to whatever damage Sox inflicted on him. His OPS is above .900.

 

My point then and now is why not turn every rock and see if you can find a gem.

 

Duran today is not the same player from 2019. He's bigger and stronger. All you can do is send him back down if he fails. I would bet he'll do better than Marwin, thus moving Kike full time to 2B. Platoon at 1B and our lineup could be solid.

 

I am with you. Lets try to improve. Who knows if Duran is ML ready. One way to tell. Same with Casas.

[Nick]

I am with you. Lets try to improve. Who knows if Duran is ML ready. One way to tell. Same with Casas.

 

Devers wasn’t the only member of the Red Sox’ offense who struggled Tuesday night, as the club mustered just one run on five hits in its second consecutive lackluster showing at the plate. Combined, Boston’s top trio of Devers, Xander Bogaerts and J.D. Martinez were 0-for-12 with six strikeouts in the 5-1 loss; so far this series, the group is 0-for-21.

“They’re human,” Cora said. “It’s part of it. It’s going to be part of 162 games. That’s why we always talk about that the other guys have to step up. They’re not going to carry the offense for 162 games.”

 

Well that statement by Cora pretty much says it all. Someone should tell him playing bunch of sub .200 hitters won't help the cause. Sorry I have to be an ass. I'm done posting this week. I'm just going to enjoy watching my Sox play.

[Hugh2]

They should bring him up. He has to be better than some of the current crew. If they don't sign him , someone else will.

 

Someone else already did sign him. The Sox after the Cubs designated him for assignment and he's now back in Boston on a minor league deal, so we're not going to lose him if he's not added to the 40 man.

 

No need to add him, this is not the same Workman, he's lost velocity and he's a reclamation project.

 

It would be a pretty cool story if Pivetta continues to play well, Seabold develops into a stud, and Workman finds himself and is a staple in our pen at some point. That would make that trade amazing. I don't have a lot of confidence in Workman contributing to this team any time soon but I'm rooting for him.

[Hugh2]

I am with you. Lets try to improve. Who knows if Duran is ML ready. One way to tell. Same with Casas.

 

I think the Boston Red Sox have a better ideal than anyone else if Duran is ready.

 

Duran is not ready.

[moonslav59]

Absolutely NOT.

 

I've been talking about KIke leading off for over a month.

 

It's also possible there's NO SOLUTION to this with our current roster.

 

But, I also don't want the Sox to think Verdugo, JD, Xander and Devers are enough to carry this team all year. Luckily Renfroe has joined the group.

 

Why not try to extend the lineup? I'm leaning towards Dalbec experiment as full time 1B for next ten years not working out despite my high hopes for the guy. Not this year anyway.

 

I also remember before the Sale trade with White Sox, so many here argued AGAINST bringing up Moncada to the majors. All I heard was HE IS NOT READY. IT WOULD DAMAGE HIM IF HE FAILED. DD was not afraid to bring up kids from AA. That was his thing. They also knew then, there was a kid that could be better 3B than Moncada. Remember that Moncada was blocked at 2B, we had Pedey.

 

Moncada seems to have overcome to whatever damage Sox inflicted on him. His OPS is above .900.

 

My point then and now is why not turn every rock and see if you can find a gem.

 

Duran today is not the same player from 2019. He's bigger and stronger. All you can do is send him back down if he fails. I would bet he'll do better than Marwin, thus moving Kike full time to 2B. Platoon at 1B and our lineup could be solid.

 

Moncada is not an example that proves your position. Others would be better choices.

 

Yoan did not help the CWS in 3 of his first 4 years in the bigs.

 

.513

.750

.915

.705

 

While .783 over his first 5 seasons is pretty good, that ie weighted by his 4th season's .915.

 

He was .719 in his first 3 years. Maybe keeping him down would have worked better.

 

Also, nobody came close to anointing Dalbec as out 10 year 1Bman after a tiny sample size in 2020.

[moonslav59]

Devers wasn’t the only member of the Red Sox’ offense who struggled Tuesday night, as the club mustered just one run on five hits in its second consecutive lackluster showing at the plate. Combined, Boston’s top trio of Devers, Xander Bogaerts and J.D. Martinez were 0-for-12 with six strikeouts in the 5-1 loss; so far this series, the group is 0-for-21.

“They’re human,” Cora said. “It’s part of it. It’s going to be part of 162 games. That’s why we always talk about that the other guys have to step up. They’re not going to carry the offense for 162 games.”

 

Well that statement by Cora pretty much says it all. Someone should tell him playing bunch of sub .200 hitters won't help the cause. Sorry I have to be an ass. I'm done posting this week. I'm just going to enjoy watching my Sox play.

 

You think he likes playing sub .200 hitters?

 

It's all he has!

 

Renfroe was once a sub .200 hitter, but the only was we found out he wasn't was by playing him despite his hitting .200. (He was at .191 on May 2nd, and after his big game on May 3rd, he hit .143 the next 3 games, before finally getting on track.)

 

It's easy to look back and say, "Why did he play this guy," or "Why is he still playing this guy?"

 

The answer is that small sample sizes are not a reason to bench someone.

 

That being said, I'm glad Cora is sitting Dalbec more vs tough righties.

 

I'd like to see Arroyo play more than Marwin, but he just came off the IL, so maybe there is a health concern, there.

 

I don't like Kike leading off, either but moving Verdugo to the 1 slot just opens up the 2 slot- a slot the studies show is the most important slot. What do we do? Put Bogey, Renfroe or Devers there? That would "shorten" the line-up.

 

The big 4:

.316 JD (.955 OPS)

.314 Bogey (.919)

.292 Verdugo (.813)

.274 Devers (.927)

 

The meh's:

.258 Renfroe (.755)

.273 Arroyo (.702)

.234 Kike (.683)

.252 Vaz (.657)

 

The wtf's:

.174 Santana (.791)

.207 Dalbec (.646)

.190 Marwin (.554)

.179 Cardero (.501)

 

Without Dalbec playing, it's literally impossible to have a line-up without a sub .200 batter. If Arroyo can't play everyday, it has to be 2 batters.

 

We have to hope 1-2 of these weak hitters pull a Renfroe on us, but by then, maybe Renfroe is back in a slump.

 

Newsflash: other teams have much worse or plentiful blackholes in their line-ups, too. Even teams with better records than ours.

[notin]

Moncada is not an example that proves your position. Others would be better choices.

 

Yoan did not help the CWS in 3 of his first 4 years in the bigs.

 

.513

.750

.915

.705

 

While .783 over his first 5 seasons is pretty good, that ie weighted by his 4th season's .915.

 

He was .719 in his first 3 years. Maybe keeping him down would have worked better.

 

Also, nobody came close to anointing Dalbec as out 10 year 1Bman after a tiny sample size in 2020.

 

To be fair to Moncada, the .513 OPS (which was in Boston) was only in 20 PA.

 

The .915 OPS was in his second season as a starter. The following .705 was in a shortened season in which he claims he never really got over a bout with COVID.

 

And this year, he is back up to .861, and has only 5 fewer PA than in 2020...

[mvp 78]

@redsoxstats

Red Sox team WAR ranking by position

 

3rd 3B

6th SS

6th RF

9th RP

11th CF

12th SP

15th LF

18th 2B

21st C

28th 1B

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

You think he likes playing sub .200 hitters?

 

It's all he has!

 

Renfroe was once a sub .200 hitter, but the only was we found out he wasn't was by playing him despite his hitting .200. (He was at .191 on May 2nd, and after his big game on May 3rd, he hit .143 the next 3 games, before finally getting on track.)

 

It's easy to look back and say, "Why did he play this guy," or "Why is he still playing this guy?"

 

The answer is that small sample sizes are not a reason to bench someone.

 

That being said, I'm glad Cora is sitting Dalbec more vs tough righties.

 

I'd like to see Arroyo play more than Marwin, but he just came off the IL, so maybe there is a health concern, there.

 

I don't like Kike leading off, either but moving Verdugo to the 1 slot just opens up the 2 slot- a slot the studies show is the most important slot. What do we do? Put Bogey, Renfroe or Devers there? That would "shorten" the line-up.

 

The big 4:

.316 JD (.955 OPS)

.314 Bogey (.919)

.292 Verdugo (.813)

.274 Devers (.927)

 

The meh's:

.258 Renfroe (.755)

.273 Arroyo (.702)

.234 Kike (.683)

.252 Vaz (.657)

 

The wtf's:

.174 Santana (.791)

.207 Dalbec (.646)

.190 Marwin (.554)

.179 Cardero (.501)

 

Without Dalbec playing, it's literally impossible to have a line-up without a sub .200 batter. If Arroyo can't play everyday, it has to be 2 batters.

 

We have to hope 1-2 of these weak hitters pull a Renfroe on us, but by then, maybe Renfroe is back in a slump.

 

Newsflash: other teams have much worse or plentiful blackholes in their line-ups, too. Even teams with better records than ours.

 

Sub-.200 averages are the .250s of yesteryear (yesterdecades?). If it makes anyone feel any better, a Yankee relative of mine said he did a scan of batting orders the other day, and the Sox were the only team that day with zero sub-.200 guys. The Bronx bummers featured FIVE below the Mendoza Line.