A Realistic View at 2019: Part II

[notin]

Which ones?

 

Oscar Tavares (#3)

Tyler Skaggs (#7)

Jose Fernandez (#8)

[oldtimer]

Having Betts means having how much to spend on pitching?

 

Betts 2 for 15 for the series. Is he worth $30mil? Of course, if he had hit against our starters he probably would have gone 6 for 15 with 3 homers.

[moonslav59]

Having Betts means having how much to spend on pitching?

 

As much as we have already.

 

Sale, Price, Eovaldi and ERod are all under team control for several more years- hopefully into the next competitive phase we go through after the reset.

[Key2Delock]

After their eighth straight loss, the Red Sox now are closer to Toronto in fourth place (by 14 games) than to the Yankees in first place (by 14.5 games) in the American League East. They’re six-and-a-half games out of the second wild card spot and fading fast from playoff contention.

 

At 58-55, they’d be closer to a playoff spot if they were in the National League, but they’re not. There are six teams in the American League now within three games of a playoff spot. There are ten teams in the National League now within three games of a playoff spot.

 

The Red Sox have 17 of the 22 games left this month and ten of their 26 currently-scheduled September games against teams now playing below .500, but even going 27-21 in those game by winning all of their games against the sub-.500 teams, the Red Sox still might miss the playoffs with a record of 85-76. (Not sure who they'd have to play in a make-up game to fulfill a 162-game schedule.)

 

After becoming a Red Sox fan in the 1950's, after 1986, I never expected to see a Red Sox World Series champion during my lifetime, but then 2004, 2007, 2013 and 2018 happened. That makes it somewhat easier for me to endure this disappointing season, but I fear for the future, even though my rooting interest will remain. Having the worst farm system in the Major Leagues and a burdensome payroll, I just hope for the sake of future Red Sox fans who were born after 2018 that this year is not the start of another perverse, 86-year curse.

Edited August 5, 2019 by Key2Delock

[illinoisredsox]

After their eighth straight loss, the Red Sox now are closer to Toronto in fourth place (by 14 games) than to the Yankees in first place (by 14.5 games) in the American League East. They’re six-and-a-half games out of the second wild card spot and fading fast from playoff contention.

 

At 58-55, they’d be closer to a playoff spot if they were in the National League, but they’re not. There are six teams in the American League now within three games of a playoff spot. There are ten teams in the National League now within three games of a playoff spot.

 

The Red Sox have 17 of the 22 games left this month and ten of their 26 currently-scheduled September games against teams now playing below .500, but even going 27-21 in those game by winning all of their games against the sub-.500 teams, the Red Sox still might miss the playoffs with a record of 85-76.

 

After becoming a Red Sox fan in the 1950's, after 1986, I never expected to see a Red Sox World Series champion during my lifetime, but then 2004, 2007, 2013 and 2018 happened. That makes it somewhat easier for me to endure this disappointing season, but I fear for the future, even though my rooting interest will remain. Having the worst farm system in the Major Leagues and a burdensome payroll, I just hope for the sake of future Red Sox fans who were born after 2018 that this year is not the start of another perverse, 86-year curse.

 

I've said it jokingly, but the Red Sox have always done well the first 18 years of a century.

[Key2Delock]

If you haven't read "The First Fall Classic: The Red Sox, the Giants, and the Cast of Players, Pugs, and Politicos Who Reinvented the World Series in 1912" by New York sportswriter Mike Vaccaro, this might be a good year to read it. LINK

[notin]

As much as we have already.

 

Sale, Price, Eovaldi and ERod are all under team control for several more years- hopefully into the next competitive phase we go through after the reset.

 

They can’t keep trotting Price out there, can they?

 

He’s looking like the more expensive pitching version of Carl Crawford...

[oldtimer]

Its not just Price that has been awful during this stretch. Porcello, Sale, Johnson, Cashner all have been very hittable and E-Rod is forever the nibbler. Good stuff but he gets himself into trouble.

 

With a rotation of very experienced and noted pitchers how do we suddenly completely implode? Are people stealing our signs? Is the wear and tear of so many seasons catching up with the staff all at once? Whatever is going on, we really have no flexability. No farm arms that would help and other than Porcello and Cashner, no ability to replace pitching staff after this season. The team is tired and no doubt are feeling almost helpless. It has to impact the field players as well.

 

It is good that JH didn't spend money and take us over the 2nd tier of the competitive balance tax. It would have just been wasted due to our starting rotation and we would have paid in draft positions.

 

DD's approach has been to deplete the farm system, take the payroll to the absolute limit, take on very expensive, long term contracts for noted starters. We got three good finishes from it including a WS. Now we pay the piper.

[jacksonianmarch]

Oscar Tavares (#3)

Tyler Skaggs (#7)

Jose Fernandez (#8)

 

I thought you meant Sox top 8. Yeah, that’s nuts. I bet Yordano Ventura is on that list too

[notin]

I thought you meant Sox top 8. Yeah, that’s nuts. I bet Yordano Ventura is on that list too

 

#83

[notin]

The rotation has given up at least one run in the first inning in 5 of the last 6 games.

 

Maybe it's time to embrace the "opener" strategy...

Edited August 5, 2019 by notin

[moonslav59]

After their eighth straight loss, the Red Sox now are closer to Toronto in fourth place (by 14 games) than to the Yankees in first place (by 14.5 games) in the American League East. They’re six-and-a-half games out of the second wild card spot and fading fast from playoff contention.

 

At 58-55, they’d be closer to a playoff spot if they were in the National League, but they’re not. There are six teams in the American League now within three games of a playoff spot. There are ten teams in the National League now within three games of a playoff spot.

 

The Red Sox have 17 of the 22 games left this month and ten of their 26 currently-scheduled September games against teams now playing below .500, but even going 27-21 in those game by winning all of their games against the sub-.500 teams, the Red Sox still might miss the playoffs with a record of 85-76. (Not sure who they'd have to play in a make-up game to fulfill a 162-game schedule.)

 

After becoming a Red Sox fan in the 1950's, after 1986, I never expected to see a Red Sox World Series champion during my lifetime, but then 2004, 2007, 2013 and 2018 happened. That makes it somewhat easier for me to endure this disappointing season, but I fear for the future, even though my rooting interest will remain. Having the worst farm system in the Major Leagues and a burdensome payroll, I just hope for the sake of future Red Sox fans who were born after 2018 that this year is not the start of another perverse, 86-year curse.

 

Being a top spender should allow us to compete again at some point in the near future, but I think we will need to be bad before we get good again-- maybe not "cliff" bad, but we may need to get a good draft pick slot or two and more international spending pool money to build the farm back up. Couple that with a rest of the tax and no tax draft penalties, and I think we can be back to being top contenders in 1-2 seasons. Maybe we'll have to sell off a couple high-priced and aging stars by paying a big chunk of their future salary, but it worked with the AGon, CC & Beckett deal, and it worked with the Lester, Lackey & Peavy sell-off.

 

As much as this season sucked, maybe it made our future path more clear.

[moonslav59]

They can’t keep trotting Price out there, can they?

 

He’s looking like the more expensive pitching version of Carl Crawford...

 

He very well may become that bad. Perhaps, we should just shut him down for the remainder of 2019 and hope that makes him stronger for 2020 and beyond.

 

There's obviously something going on with the extreme babying he's gotten all year.

[Bellhorn04]

Let's not be comparing Price to Crawford. Crawford was a complete washout after he got paid. Price at least is on the cover of the 2018 World Series DVD set.

[FredLynn]

They can’t keep trotting Price out there, can they?

 

He’s looking like the more expensive pitching version of Carl Crawford...

 

Just thinking a bit out of the box here....its possible that at this stage in his career Price would be better suited for the bullpen. He did well last year out of the pen in the playoffs. Can we convert D Hernandez into a starter? Would his stuff last for 6-7 innings?

[kenmeister]

Just thinking a bit out of the box here....its possible that at this stage in his career Price would be better suited for the bullpen. He did well last year out of the pen in the playoffs. Can we convert D Hernandez into a starter? Would his stuff last for 6-7 innings?

 

I'm all for sending Sale & Price to the bullpen for the remainder of the season.

[Bellhorn04]

I would rather keep sending them out there for their starts, assuming they're healthy, and try to figure out what the issues are. At this point the results don't matter that much.

[illinoisredsox]

Just thinking a bit out of the box here....its possible that at this stage in his career Price would be better suited for the bullpen. He did well last year out of the pen in the playoffs. Can we convert D Hernandez into a starter? Would his stuff last for 6-7 innings?

 

DH was a starter until a couple months ago. He had insane control issues this year, like walking close to 1 batter per inning. Previous years were a little better, but it was still 5 or so per 9 innings.

 

Until/unless he harnesses that, there's no way he can be a starter.

Edited August 5, 2019 by illinoisredsox

[illinoisredsox]

I would rather keep sending them out there for their starts, assuming they're healthy, and try to figure out what the issues are. At this point the results don't matter that much.

 

Agree. Even if it's for next year, they have to figure out whatever it is. And it's not like there's some kid at Pawtucket being held back.

[dgalehouse]

As someone who warned during the off season that we were asking for trouble , and was scoffed at for it , I now say this : Why are you all giving up when we are six and a half back with forty eight to play ? While coming back is difficult , it is certainly not impossible or unprecedented. How can you give up now ?

[kenmeister]

As someone who warned during the off season that we were asking for trouble , and was scoffed at for it , I now say this : Why are you all giving up when we are six and a half back with forty eight to play ? While coming back is difficult , it is certainly not impossible or unprecedented. How can you give up now ?

 

I only feel they have a chance to win when E-Rod pitches. 48 to play? They will probably go 8-40. I'm miserable today!

[cp176]

I would rather keep sending them out there for their starts, assuming they're healthy, and try to figure out what the issues are. At this point the results don't matter that much.

 

I'm just going to hold the line and say that anyone giving up Chris Sale is not being rational. he'll be back so to speak.

[Maxbialystock]

I would rather keep sending them out there for their starts, assuming they're healthy, and try to figure out what the issues are. At this point the results don't matter that much.

 

Agree. I would like to agree with CP176 about Sale, but have my doubts right now because he is so dependent upon the fastball and slider, which then puts extra pressure on being able to work the fringes of the strike zone. I would like to see a curve, but would settle for a reliable changeup that he can work the corners with.

 

In any case, I just don't see the bullpen now.

[Hitch]

I'm just going to hold the line and say that anyone giving up Chris Sale is not being rational. he'll be back so to speak.

 

Totally agree. Amazed how quick so many are to quit on him. Not so amazed Jackson is posting giddily along the same lines.

[dannycater]

A Realistic View at 2020: Preview: So who will be around in 2020?

[fxkatt]

A Realistic View at 2020: Preview: So who will be around in 2020?

 

There's still Pedroia and Castillo on the books in '20. Then there's Price, Sale, and possibly Martinez and their 87 million dollar payload. Then Betts at at least 26 million. I don't know if we're more in trouble with bad contracts or with a depleted minor league system. looks grim, but Kansas City is in town... so who knows.

[notin]

A Realistic View at 2020: Preview: So who will be around in 2020?

 

Price, Sale, Rodriguez, Eovaldi, Barnes, Hernandez, Taylor, Workman, Johnson, Vazquez, Chavis, Bogaerts, Devers, Benintendi, and Betts for starters.

[Slasher9]

Let's not be comparing Price to Crawford. Crawford was a complete washout after he got paid. Price at least is on the cover of the 2018 World Series DVD set.

 

i dont think anyone was a bigger detractor to the Price signing then me, but once that parade happened i will never complain about the signing again. the 2 (crawford vs price) should never be compared again. panda will have to keep crawford company from now on......

[oldtimer]

A Realistic View at 2020: Preview: So who will be around in 2020?

 

My view:

 

 

Like Moon, I’m in favor of resetting the Sox team and payroll in 2020 with an eye on building toward a fully competitive team toward 2021 and beyond. Saying that, I still know we have to field a team in 2020 and we need to make that team as competitive as possible without losing the idea of resetting the payroll.

I am for the idea of keeping those who should be able to help us along the path toward competitiveness, yet I know certain contracts are beyond our control and those people maybe with us unless we can trade them or they opt out.

 

My keepers are as follows, all other all trade bait or gone:

 

Starting pitchers:

Nathan Eovaldi

Darwinzon Hernandez (good arm, young, inexpensive and may develop)

David Price (Don’t expect we can trade him)

Chris Sale (Probable he will return to useful form)

Eduardo Rodriguez

 

Relief Pitchers: (Generally inexpensive) (Would trade for right offer)

Matt Barnes

Colten Brewer

Josh Taylor

Marcus Walden

Ryan Weber

Brandon Workman

 

Catcher:

Christian Vazquez

 

Field Players:

Raphael Devers

Xander Bogaerts

Michael Chavis

Marco Hernandez

Brock Holt (possible trade bait)

 

Outfielders:

Andrew Benintendi

Mookie Betts (If he can be signed to a contract representative to his true value)

 

Designated Hitter:

J.D Martinez (He is locked in unless he opts out. If he does, we can find a decent DH for less money)

 

GM: (replace)

David Dombrowski (Don’t think he is suited to lead a team through rebuilding)

 

Look to fill in the holes from the minors, trades and FA pickups

[moonslav59]

My view:

 

 

Like Moon, I’m in favor of resetting the Sox team and payroll in 2020 with an eye on building toward a fully competitive team toward 2021 and beyond. Saying that, I still know we have to field a team in 2020 and we need to make that team as competitive as possible without losing the idea of resetting the payroll.

I am for the idea of keeping those who should be able to help us along the path toward competitiveness, yet I know certain contracts are beyond our control and those people maybe with us unless we can trade them or they opt out.

 

My keepers are as follows, all other all trade bait or gone:

 

Starting pitchers:

Nathan Eovaldi

Darwinzon Hernandez (good arm, young, inexpensive and may develop)

David Price (Don’t expect we can trade him)

Chris Sale (Probable he will return to useful form)

Eduardo Rodriguez

 

Relief Pitchers: (Generally inexpensive) (Would trade for right offer)

Matt Barnes

Colten Brewer

Josh Taylor

Marcus Walden

Ryan Weber

Brandon Workman

 

Catcher:

Christian Vazquez

 

Field Players:

Raphael Devers

Xander Bogaerts

Michael Chavis

Marco Hernandez

Brock Holt (possible trade bait)

 

Outfielders:

Andrew Benintendi

Mookie Betts (If he can be signed to a contract representative to his true value)

 

Designated Hitter:

J.D Martinez (He is locked in unless he opts out. If he does, we can find a decent DH for less money)

 

GM: (replace)

David Dombrowski (Don’t think he is suited to lead a team through rebuilding)

 

Look to fill in the holes from the minors, trades and FA pickups

 

Holt is a FA after this year, so trading him is not really an option.

 

I doubt we can reset, unless we trade a contract or two. That will have to be Price, Sale, Eovaldi or JD.