And the off season begins (2018-19)

[Bellhorn04]

Yes, and that goes down to $5M in 2020, but to reset the tax in 2020 or 2021 would mean drastic changes to our roster.

 

What $5M? Pablo's tax cost is gone after 2019.

[mvp 78]

Here we go again, the hot stove league.

 

I would like to inform one and all that:

 

1) you guys do not do this just in the offseason--prospects, deals, trades, etc are a regular source of discussion throughout the season;

 

2) the season is over and there will be no games until April 1 or thereabouts, and to my way of thinking all these discussions are a distant second to the real thing.

 

You must be a joy at parties.

[mvp 78]

What $5M? Pablo's tax cost is gone after 2019.

 

If it makes Sox fans feel better, the team will only have to pay him $18 million this year and $18 million next year before they can escape the deal with a $5 million buyout in 2020.

 

https://www.boston.com/sports/boston-red-sox/2018/03/06/red-sox-pay-pablo-sandoval-giants

 

Is the buyout not part of the tax calculation?

[moonslav59]

What $5M? Pablo's tax cost is gone after 2019.

 

Cots has the $5M buyout listed but not on the tax page.

 

 

 

#

 

 

[mvp 78]

@ByChrisMason

 

No surprise here: The Red Sox have exercised Chris Sale’s 2019 option.

[Slasher9]

Here we go again, the hot stove league.

 

I would like to inform one and all that:

 

1) you guys do not do this just in the offseason--prospects, deals, trades, etc are a regular source of discussion throughout the season;

 

2) the season is over and there will be no games until April 1 or thereabouts, and to my way of thinking all these discussions are a distant second to the real thing.

 

here's the good news....Cora is no longer Rookie Manager Cora.

[moonslav59]

What $5M? Pablo's tax cost is gone after 2019.

 

Yes, he was paid $18.5M a year plus the $1M a year for the buyout spread over the 5 year deal (minus the $500K SF pays him).

 

You are right. We were charged $19M a year x 5 for tax purposes, and the $5M in 2020 does not count against the tax.

 

My bad.

Edited October 30, 2018 by moonslav59

[moonslav59]

@ByChrisMason

 

No surprise here: The Red Sox have exercised Chris Sale’s 2019 option.

 

I believe it's $15M: $13.5M plus $1.5m for finishing in the top 3 of Cy Young recently.

 

That adds some to the budget, but I counted him at $15M on my chart.

[bigbern37]

Are you serious or blind? Eo and Pierce were outstanding post season. Keep them by all means.

[Slasher9]

Are you serious or blind? Eo and Pierce were outstanding post season. Keep them by all means.

 

lets not forget Pablo got a pretty fat contract from us for having an outstanding post season........

[mvp 78]

lets not forget Pablo got a pretty fat contract from us for having an outstanding post season........

 

Eo is gonna get paid. Pearce could be cheap.

[oldtimer]

I believe it's $15M: $13.5M plus $1.5m for finishing in the top 3 of Cy Young recently.

 

That adds some to the budget, but I counted him at $15M on my chart.

 

You were right on.

[kenmeister]

Are you serious or blind? Eo and Pierce were outstanding post season. Keep them by all means.

 

I'm with you. I'm happy we will have Sale for another year, but I don't know about extending him beyond that with his health problems. Eovaldi could have a really bright future, and I want it in Boston. Pearce and Moreland make a great tandem and we should keep that next year too unless a remarkable first base option comes along.

 

And while we're at it, once we are sure that Pedroia can't play 2B anymore, I would like the Sox to look at moving Betts back there. The Betts-Bogaerts double play was meant to be. That would open up either an outfield or DH spot, and good hitters for those positions are far easier to come by.

[moonslav59]

I'm with you. I'm happy we will have Sale for another year, but I don't know about extending him beyond that with his health problems. Eovaldi could have a really bright future, and I want it in Boston. Pearce and Moreland make a great tandem and we should keep that next year too unless a remarkable first base option comes along.

 

And while we're at it, once we are sure that Pedroia can't play 2B anymore, I would like the Sox to look at moving Betts back there. The Betts-Bogaerts double play was meant to be. That would open up either an outfield or DH spot, and good hitters for those positions are far easier to come by.

 

I can't agree with a single point made here.

 

Eovaldi has more health issues than Sale.

 

Betts is a GG RF;er and JD was made for the DH role.

 

Bogey is not a great defender, so dreams of a Bogey-Betts keystone combo are ill-founded.

 

2Bmen are easier to find than good all around OF'ers, and we already have Holt/Nunez under contract..

[sk7326]

Do we bring back both Vasquez and Leon? It would make sense to make room for Swihart.

 

Yes with Vasquez ... I mean, Leon is a terrific receiver, but he has basically 6 weeks of competent offensive baseball. Vasquez I think can - if healthy - deliver a perfectly acceptable performance at the plate. He's never going to be *good*, but it is clear he knows how to take good at-bats and does a pretty good job making contact. A .250/.300/.380 sort of player with his receiving skills is a perfectly good starter.

 

Swihart still makes sense for me as a backup "C" at worse - and at least capable of being better than that, whether that be as a pure "C" or a sort of catcher-corner supersub.

 

Leon is good for what he is - I'm not itching to run him out of town. But if you have only 2 slots, that's where my head's at.

[OH FOY]

https://cubbiescrib.com/2018/10/28/chicago-cubs-rumors-team-give-trevor-rosenthal-chance/

 

Theo is thinking this way to with Rosenthal. He was hitting 98 and touching off 100.

Edited October 31, 2018 by OH FOY!

[moonslav59]

Yes with Vasquez ... I mean, Leon is a terrific receiver, but he has basically 6 weeks of competent offensive baseball. Vasquez I think can - if healthy - deliver a perfectly acceptable performance at the plate. He's never going to be *good*, but it is clear he knows how to take good at-bats and does a pretty good job making contact. A .250/.300/.380 sort of player with his receiving skills is a perfectly good starter.

 

Swihart still makes sense for me as a backup "C" at worse - and at least capable of being better than that, whether that be as a pure "C" or a sort of catcher-corner supersub.

 

Leon is good for what he is - I'm not itching to run him out of town. But if you have only 2 slots, that's where my head's at.

 

Keeping Leon, only if just to be Sale's personal caddy, is worth it.

 

Vaz has already shown he can hit pretty well (for a catcher).

 

Swihart will be traded, IMO.

[oldtimer]

Yes with Vasquez ... I mean, Leon is a terrific receiver, but he has basically 6 weeks of competent offensive baseball. Vasquez I think can - if healthy - deliver a perfectly acceptable performance at the plate. He's never going to be *good*, but it is clear he knows how to take good at-bats and does a pretty good job making contact. A .250/.300/.380 sort of player with his receiving skills is a perfectly good starter.

 

Swihart still makes sense for me as a backup "C" at worse - and at least capable of being better than that, whether that be as a pure "C" or a sort of catcher-corner supersub.

 

Leon is good for what he is - I'm not itching to run him out of town. But if you have only 2 slots, that's where my head's at.

 

It looks like we only have two catchings slots this year with both Nunez and Holt signed and a possibility og getting Pearce back. I suppose an alternative would be to use Swihart as the backup 1st baseman with Moreland but Swihart is not particularly good batting from the right. If he was used we could have three catchers again. I prefer us getting Pearce back and trading Swihart although keeping him and letting Leon go is an option. We know Leon is a fine receiver who doesn't hit well and probably has a low trade value.

[Hitch]

Even as a huge Swilhart fan, one thing I will say (and this is quite possibly down to a lack of time) but he doesn't seem to have much gravitas about him when he's catching. I never feel like he is in control of things out there, or willing to put a fire out with one of his pitchers.

 

It's like he's simply playing the position rather than owning it, if that makes sense.

[Nick]

Look, I love baseball but I have no idea about pitcher's ability to go from starting to closing and vice versa.

 

Let's say you want to 're-set' Sale's arm fatigue coming from pitching 200+ innings while striking out 300+.

 

And let's say we extend his contract in April of 2019, 6 years, $180M. (we did this with Porcello when we announced his new four year deal).

 

And let's say we sign Eovaldi and everyone is healthy including Wright, Johnson and Hector.

 

Is it possible to use Sale as a closer for one year? Will that 'save' his arm or does closing games for entire year take same toll as starting 32 times? Any former pitcher or pitching coach out there?

 

Sale will be making $15M for 2019. Not unreasonable cost for a closer. (Or can you rotate say, Eovaldi, Price and Sale for two months apiece?)

Edited October 31, 2018 by Nick

[Station 13]

So, it's asinine to not have Sale for 30 starts.

[Dojji]

Look, I love baseball but I have no idea about pitcher's ability to go from starting to closing and vice versa.

 

Let's say you want to 're-set' Sale's arm fatigue coming from pitching 200+ innings while striking out 300+.

 

And let's say we extend his contract in April of 2019, 6 years, $180M. (we did this with Porcello when we announced his new four year deal).

 

And let's say we sign Eovaldi and everyone is healthy including Wright, Johnson and Hector.

 

Is it possible to use Sale as a closer for one year? Will that 'save' his arm or does closing games for entire year take same toll as starting 32 times? Any former pitcher or pitching coach out there?

 

Sale will be making $15M for 2019. Not unreasonable cost for a closer. (Or can you rotate say, Eovaldi, Price and Sale for two months apiece?)

Both closing and starting put extreme wear on an arm for different reasons, Generally speaking you can't "save" an arm by using it in high leverage relief. If anything throwing that hard that often (IE that many consecutive days) seems harder on an arm than taking a regular turn, if the mass of injuries to relievers every year is anything to go on.

 

The closest example I can think of to what you're talking about is the Bravs used John Smoltz in the closer's role for a few years when their rotation was absolutely loaded, and that had more to do with finding the best away to use their available talent, rather than any concern about Smoltz's arm.

 

That or the desperate effort to save Daniel Bard by trying him as a starter back in 2012 because he was already starting to falter so what the heck. That's not a great example either though.

[mvp 78]

@SoxProspects

 

Important upcoming dates:

 

11/2: Deadline to extend qualifying offers (expect Kimbrel to receive one)

11/3: Free agency begins

12/9-13: Winter Meetings

[jung]

Henry/DD will only "keep it going" (ie spend money) with one though in mind. Win back to back World Series.

 

1 Sign Eovaldi. This is a hedge against losing both Sale and Porcello after 2019. It's a smart move. Goal is to win the world series, not jut to sign a fifth starter. Assuming E Rod continues to improve, our starting pitching will be loaded and gives us more options for 2019 playoff run.

 

2 Wait and see at 2B. We have enough hitting elsewhere. If Pedey has to 'retire', then trade for 2B in July.

 

3. I'd look for cost controlled closer in a trade. We may have to give up some young talent again but the goal is to win it all.

 

Heck if you are keeping Eo trade Porcello.

[jung]

Both closing and starting put extreme wear on an arm for different reasons, Generally speaking you can't "save" an arm by using it in high leverage relief. If anything throwing that hard that often (IE that many consecutive days) seems harder on an arm than taking a regular turn, if the mass of injuries to relievers every year is anything to go on.

 

The closest example I can think of to what you're talking about is the Bravs used John Smoltz in the closer's role for a few years when their rotation was absolutely loaded, and that had more to do with finding the best away to use their available talent, rather than any concern about Smoltz's arm.

 

That or the desperate effort to save Daniel Bard by trying him as a starter back in 2012 because he was already starting to falter so what the heck. That's not a great example either though.

 

There is nothing about how Cora handled the staff in the post season that is applicable to the regular season. Had we a better pen it would not have needed bailing out by our rotation guys. Said it in August, our rotation would bail out our bullpen. Even I had it wrong. I thought it would be ERod, Eo, Price and maybe Rick bailing out our pen. Heck THEY ALL DID. Masterful job by Cora...took real guts by him, the coaches and by the pitching staff.

 

However there is nothing to admire in the Brewers and Rays formula. They were both born of necessity. That said, the metrics-nerds think that is all wonderful and are creaming all over themselves over this....like that goon on MLB Network. "Sure, whats wrong with it. Just keep doing it for 162 games". Sure IDIOT!

[TylerD]

Look, I love baseball but I have no idea about pitcher's ability to go from starting to closing and vice versa.

 

Let's say you want to 're-set' Sale's arm fatigue coming from pitching 200+ innings while striking out 300+.

 

And let's say we extend his contract in April of 2019, 6 years, $180M. (we did this with Porcello when we announced his new four year deal).

 

And let's say we sign Eovaldi and everyone is healthy including Wright, Johnson and Hector.

 

Is it possible to use Sale as a closer for one year? Will that 'save' his arm or does closing games for entire year take same toll as starting 32 times? Any former pitcher or pitching coach out there?

 

Sale will be making $15M for 2019. Not unreasonable cost for a closer. (Or can you rotate say, Eovaldi, Price and Sale for two months apiece?)

The thing is, The Sox organization and coaching staff won't use Sale as a closer (even if it is a good idea) He is just simply too good of a starting pitcher to be used in one inning. Only way I see this happening is if Kimbrel walks and we don't have a closer, and Sale says that is what he wants to do for a year.

[harmony]

Carson Smith was among roster casualties:

 

 

https://bosoxinjection.com/2018/03/16/red-sox-fleeced-mariners-in-wade-miley-trade/

Edited November 1, 2018 by harmony

[Kimmi]

Heck if you are keeping Eo trade Porcello.

 

Why? I'd keep both.

[jacksonianmarch]

Why? I'd keep both.

 

If you are staying under the final cap, re-signing Eovaldi will likely remove all of your spending money

[FredLynn]

If you are staying under the final cap, re-signing Eovaldi will likely remove all of your spending money

 

Henry won't stay under the cap this year. There is too much talent still on this team not to make another run at a ring.